Is there any supersonic / hypersonic missile being developed by Pakistan?

[SBD-3]

can you please explain this ...exept for range ....what else is better than brahmos...you say that babur is better than brahmos and ask others to stop comparing ....by saying babur is better than brahmos you already compared it right ...this thread will again go on like MKI vs JF THREAD ...you do you have to campare apples with grapes ....brahmos is unique ...if you find any other supersonic cruise missile lets compare brahmos with that ..not with a subsonic CM....hope you got my point in the right spirit

once again bhai sahib..........................Here you are.....................look man a missile like brahmos will have to fly high with limited maneuverability (as you said earlier) it will be detected from a long range by AWACS and will be simultaniously engaged by Aircraft or SAMs so even though its fast.....as soon as it airs its self radars will know its presence increasing the chances to hit.......I said it earlier that that both missiles follow different ideologies Babur relies on its terrain hugging where as Brahmos relies on Speed..............and one more thing; can you provide me the RCS figure of Babur and Detection range of Phalcon at that RCS????

 

[graphican]

Pakistan's defense philosophy is not to duck under defensive shields and neutralize any attempt of aggression on it, but our security comes from the fact that we would not let our attacker survive either.

I really havent laughed this hard in a while.....

The flawed and inflated sense of "ability" among some members here really amuses me.....

Hello Peshwa,

sure I am not a military personal who would talk of strategy one, two and three but I would like to know how do you feel India is not in danger if it attacked Pakistan?

Pakistan faces multiple threats from India including Brahmos, SU-30, Nuclear Submarine, Aircraft-Career(s) etc. But the reason we are surviving is not because we have means to cope these individual threats from you, but we do have a response that India doesn't like to have. We know the moment India would attack us, we will be short of options and will eventually end up using Nukes. India is well aware of the fact and despite of having such a technological / numerical gain over Pakistan, it is still using covert approaches to destabilize us instead of launching a war, even when it was so desperate to do so. Remember 2001 and 26/11?

 

[Chanakyaa]

Hello Peshwa,

sure I am not a military personal who would talk of strategy one, two and three but I would like to know how do you feel India is not in danger if it attacked Pakistan?

Pakistan faces multiple threats from India including Brahmos, SU-30, Nuclear Submarine, Aircraft-Career(s) etc. But the reason we are surviving is not because we have means to cope these individual threats from you, but we do have a response that India doesn't like to have. We know the moment India would attack us, we will be short of options and will eventually end up using Nukes. India is well aware of the fact and despite of having such a technological / numerical gain over Pakistan, it is still using covert approaches to destabilize us instead of launching a war, even when it was so desperate to do so. Remember 2001 and 26/11?

Very True.

 

[Peshwa]

Hello Peshwa,

sure I am not a military personal who would talk of strategy one, two and three but I would like to know how do you feel India is not in danger if it attacked Pakistan?

Pakistan faces multiple threats from India including Brahmos, SU-30, Nuclear Submarine, Aircraft-Career(s) etc. But the reason we are surviving is not because we have means to cope these individual threats from you, but we do have a response that India doesn't like to have. We know the moment India would attack us, we will be short of options and will eventually end up using Nukes. India is well aware of the fact and despite of having such a technological / numerical gain over Pakistan, it is still using covert approaches to destabilize us instead of launching a war, even when it was so desperate to do so. Remember 2001 and 26/11?

Graphican,

Thanks for explaining your thoughts. Maybe I jumped the gun here......I assumed your earlier comment was a purely emotional outburst.......

I definitely agree that India feels a certain level of threat from Pakistan.....more nuclear than conventional, but a threat that it takes seriously.
But I would like to add that your earlier comment was a tad bit flawed......Pakistan policy "not to hide behind defence shield" is an incorrect statement. Pakistan has adequate air defence, SAM's, AA guns to secure its airspace....Pakistans defensive policy is to not allow its enemies to gain air superiority.......thus an extremely defensive posture....
Your statement said the exact opposite so much so that it indicated an offensive posture as the best defence for Pakistan.....that was what I was amused at....
Pakistan lacks at the moment, Anti-Ballistic Missile Defence....It would love to get its hands on some, but they're either too expensive or the best systems are made by nations not so friendly to Pakistan at the moment. I feel like a lot of members here turn the "inability" to gain ABM due to above stated reasons into a "we dont need it" or some sort of a false sense of bravado of Pakistan.....

I would also just like to add and you can differ in opinion on this.....
a) India is not waging proxy war in Pakistan.....Balochistan or TTP
B) India is not willing to risk war with Pakistan not because it cant, because the price is too high....Our booming economy is too much incentive, and the lure or money will win us more friends and make us stronger than waging war....it will almost be an axe in the foot at the moment......

Also since I am an uber nationalist, I would like to believe that India is a non-aggressive state....but Im sure there are exceptions to the rule.....

Thanks

 

[Arsalan]

that was really sad, the topic of this thread was a question about whether pakistan plan any hypersonic CM in future but we started the thread with discussing the brahmos, thanks to the indians and no have ended up talking about strategies,,
sorry guys no offense to anyone, the debate here is indeed a valuable one but perhpas it does not suite under the banner of this topic!! what do you think, i hope you people will understand and me the post dont spread flames of any kind,,

best regards!

 

[graphican]

Graphican,

Thanks for explaining your thoughts. Maybe I jumped the gun here......I assumed your earlier comment was a purely emotional outburst.......

I definitely agree that India feels a certain level of threat from Pakistan.....more nuclear than conventional, but a threat that it takes seriously.
But I would like to add that your earlier comment was a tad bit flawed......Pakistan policy "not to hide behind defence shield" is an incorrect statement. Pakistan has adequate air defence, SAM's, AA guns to secure its airspace....Pakistans defensive policy is to not allow its enemies to gain air superiority.......thus an extremely defensive posture....
Your statement said the exact opposite so much so that it indicated an offensive posture as the best defence for Pakistan.....that was what I was amused at....
Pakistan lacks at the moment, Anti-Ballistic Missile Defence....It would love to get its hands on some, but they're either too expensive or the best systems are made by nations not so friendly to Pakistan at the moment. I feel like a lot of members here turn the "inability" to gain ABM due to above stated reasons into a "we dont need it" or some sort of a false sense of bravado of Pakistan.....

I would also just like to add and you can differ in opinion on this.....
a) India is not waging proxy war in Pakistan.....Balochistan or TTP
B) India is not willing to risk war with Pakistan not because it cant, because the price is too high....Our booming economy is too much incentive, and the lure or money will win us more friends and make us stronger than waging war....it will almost be an axe in the foot at the moment......

Also since I am an uber nationalist, I would like to believe that India is a non-aggressive state....but Im sure there are exceptions to the rule.....

Thanks

Hello Peshwa,

I am still not able to get how are you finding my first post as emotional. May be you want to feel it that way but in my revisited opinion it is still a rational one. Lets face the reality on ground. Pakistan has fire-power but not enough to hold India back with it - longer. This is not something that only Military Generals would know and understand. These are facts on ground no matter how much spirit we show, we understand our chances of hurting India are thinner than being hurt by it. India is 1400 Million Heads and we are 170. Indian has nearly 10 times bigger economy than ours and even on defense budget, India spends 7-8 times more than we do. Logically speaking, Pakistan cannot build a defensive wall that India could not cross. So defensive approach does not suite us.

Regarding your words

I would also just like to add and you can differ in opinion on this.....
a) India is not waging proxy war in Pakistan.....Balochistan or TTP
B) India is not willing to risk war with Pakistan not because it cant, because the price is too high....Our booming economy is too much incentive, and the lure or money will win us more friends and make us stronger than waging war....it will almost be an axe in the foot at the moment......

This is again how you would like the things to be seen. Let me ask you a simple question. Do we differ that India and Pakistan are Enemies? If your answer is no than bare with me on reality. Whenever we had a chance to hurt India secretly, we did and you are aware of that.. aren't you? Now this is India's opportunity to hurt Pakistan through whatever means it has. Baluchistan and FATA are the best grounds for that. Until and unless you are ready to term Indian Intelligence Agencies as Clan of Fools, you got to accept that India is enjoying its turn of troubling Pakistan.

Regarding the second part of it, Indeed, this is the only reason which keeps India bare cool mind. I understand Indian people eat the same wheat which Pakistani do and their head boils on incidents like 26/11 as much ours do with these suicide attacks in Pakistan. But in war, India has more to loose than Pakistan. We would be "dead" but India would be "limp" which is not a pleasant option for it.. and to add a little more to it, there are few Nations on Indian border that would like to see a limp chap so it could be easier for them to finish the job that Pakistan could not.. and this is exactly what has been predicted. Since this hurts my fellows from India so I am keeping it as short as possible.

 

[ambidex]

once again bhai sahib..........................Here you are.....................look man a missile like brahmos will have to fly high with limited maneuverability (as you said earlier) it will be detected from a long range by AWACS and will be simultaniously engaged by Aircraft or SAMs so even though its fast.....as soon as it airs its self radars will know its presence increasing the chances to hit.......I said it earlier that that both missiles follow different ideologies Babur relies on its terrain hugging where as Brahmos relies on Speed..............and one more thing; can you provide me the RCS figure of Babur and Detection range of Phalcon at that RCS????

No it is not true, cruise missiles are operator/program dependent. The optimal trajectory is selected according to nature and characteristics of target. Brahmos is not an exception it has less range LO-LO and high rage HI-LO-LO trajectory.

One will have less then 3-5 minutes to detect and then can intercept it with SAM batteries no doubt. But if you intercept one shell at distance of 100 km then 2nd will be intercepted at 50 km the fourth one will be a splash for sure.
Forget about (less relevant) RCS figures.
Any advanced cruise missiles super sonic or subsonic (babur) are enemy's nightmare if seen inbound on radar, irrespective of ideology

 

[Tomahawk]

Americans do operate tomahawk and it is sub-sonic (just like babur) reason being is this that it is effective, combat proven and does the job for them. The real threat of a cruise missile is its ability to remain un-detected, and hit its target with high accuracy, doesn't matter if it is supersonic or subsonic.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Americans do operate tomahawk and it is sub-sonic (just like babur) reason being is this that it is effective, combat proven and does the job for them. The real threat of a cruise missile is its ability to remain un-detected, and hit its target with high accuracy, doesn't matter if it is supersonic or subsonic.

Well, They used it against Afganistan and IRAQ who did not have the ability to retaliate.
No Doubt its Very Effective and One of the Best. and War Proven.

 

[BlackSonic]

Americans do operate tomahawk and it is sub-sonic (just like babur) reason being is this that it is effective, combat proven and does the job for them. The real threat of a cruise missile is its ability to remain un-detected, and hit its target with high accuracy, doesn't matter if it is supersonic or subsonic.

You kidding.

Ok i tell you, a supersonic missile spends less time in the air than a subsonic missile. IF the target is at the same distance.

Do i need to explain the benefit of spending less time in the air?

Read this:
Classification of Missile - BrahMos.com

 

[shhhahuuu]

wars are never won with superiority of weapons.. if this were not the case, India would have smashed Pakistan in 1965.. something, more then weapons is reqired...!!!

 

[aj_tech123]

wars are never won with superiority of weapons.. if this were not the case, India would have smashed Pakistan in 1965.. something, more then weapons is reqired...!!!

and wat happened in 1971,u had a sub,but india didnt,unfortunately ur ghazi sub was sunk..
and in 1999 kargil..
and siachin conflict...

 

[somebozo]

A mach 5 rocket is under development by SUPARC but very little info is made public so far!

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

"Is there any supersonic / hypersonic missile being developed by Pakistan?"

All ballistic missiles in use are hypersonic i.e. exceed mach 5.

...I know the question was about cruise missiles though.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Well , a supersonic / hyper sonic cruise missile is a very expensive and dare I say inefficient instrument of way.

Pakistan's defence doctrine is based on a combination of long / short range missile which can carry single / multiple war heads; backed up with cruise missile which provide the softening before assault.

Can one compare the cost of RnD and manufacturing with the return ? whereas a subsonic "clever" cruise missile can do the job just as well.

and please do not give that BS argument about anti missile shields crap; It can very very easily be negated I would suggest you study the Israeli dilemma these days

Secondly don't try to justify with " it is as accurate" argument because it is NOT !
remember it is not about just hitting the target
it is about % probability of hitting the target repeatedly.

Third Black Sonic talked about TIME IN THE AIR factor, he did not mention the down side of that.
If a missile is hyper sonic, it spends less time in air to be detected and countered
THAT also means that it has less chance to correct it self.
Try to balance that with the scenario that the missile has unfavourable weather condition in the last 10km run.


Debate open.