Is the OBL raid a blessing for exposing lapses in Pakistani defence system?

[hembo]

Babur is more advanced then tomahawk and has more range........ and china wasnt involved ..

Do u see such a CM in their inventory...NO

Are you for real???

Babur has a variants with maximum range upto 700 km.. Tomahawk has a range of 2500 km.


Courtesy Jagjinatt:

A Tomahawk failed in flight and crashed in Pakistan. Pakistani engineers studied it and tried to copy that missile, but couldn't absorb all the technologies. The resultant missile was Babur. So it is a reverse engineered Tomahawk with much lesser capabilities...

The software part was impossible to copy so Pakistan designed it themselves. Guidance systems were studied but made by Pakistan. They could not absorp the propulsion technique properly. Hence their missile turned out to be a 700 km missile vs Tomhawks's 2500 km.

Other than that, it is a COMPLETE COPY of Tomahawk. Just a degraded version.

Courtesy AhaseebA (a Pakistani member) of IDF:

Pakistan tried to reverse engineer Tomahawk,everybody knows that...some aspects which couldn't be copied were:

1. Range.Due to some reason,Tomahawk has greater range than Babur.

2. Targeting systems.Pakistan had to design targeting systems of their own.However they ensure a CEP of 25m when targeting from steep angles.Babur has not yet been tested to strike a building(or ship) from the side...for now,it can only attack from top.

3.Maneuverable Booster Motor.It is evident from the videos of US Navy Ships firing Tomahawks that they turn very quickly,thats not the case with Babur.Booster motor was made indigenously so it does not turn quickly...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Im wrong abt the range ..... apologies.

But quoting ahaseeb? i mean hes just a military fan not an authority over missile tech.

 

[hembo]

~~~ self delete ~~

No need

 

[hembo]

Im wrong abt the range ..... apologies.

But quoting ahaseeb? i mean hes just a military fan not an authority over missile tech.

Yaar.. just watch youtube video of tomahawk turning rate and compare it with Babur.. You'll know the difference.

Also, Tomahawk itself is more then 30 years old technology.. Americans are only keeping it in their arsenal now for its range. The moment they successfully test fires ArcLight, which is a hypersonic cruise missile with a huge range of 3500-4000 kms, they will say bye bye to even Tomahawks...

So much for latest technology of Babur.. Yaar, be patriotic.. but at least be reasonable in describing these prized toys of yours..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Someone from Pakistan, please stop him before he embarrasses himself any more. Because I'm certain that he is not going to listen to any Indian member..

I think u once corrected me.... not need to post crap and spread the crap...... this will just get dirty.

 

[hembo]

^^ Deleted my post

Now, if you delete yours too, I'll be obliged and there will be no dirt!! :wink:

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I do NOT have technical know-how on this subject,,, but this is what I found....!!!

C-805 , Yj-62 Missile ... !!!
Source

Those are Anti ship cruise missiles.

For standard cruise missiles we have the CJ 10 ( 2,200 Km range), and DH 10(> 4000 Km range)

http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/China_Military_Report_08.pdf

 

[Birruna]

Americans have lost close to 4000+ soldiers (Iraq + Afghanistan combined), they are 4 trillion dollars in the red and chasing the ghost of an old man down little allies and across countries has made them loose their standing in the world along with denting their readiness for large scale wars in the near future also they have created more enemies for themselves so what exactly have they gained from this adventure?

But that’s not something for you Indians to answer the question is why you Indians are hiding behind America? You do accuse us of many thing and make khyali palao of doing this and that to us but balls all you have been able to do so in reality.. Why? Simply because you can not, you have no juice and Indians aren't really know to be the brave type more like conniving coward that cook up schemes.

Removing of OBL is good for Pakistan and with this your wet dream to an American invasion of Pakistan has been put to rest also. So go on and keep rubbing yourself in the hope that someone else will be able to inflict that mortal blow to Pakistan that you can only have wet dreams about.

"Saamp bhi mare, aur Latthi na toothe" - By the way Pakistan is humiliating itself we may not get a chance.

 

[Pak_Sher]

Security lapses have been exposed and the Armed Forces need to revise ADA and the vigil on all borders.

 

[indushek]

Its good that the posters are thinking this as a lesson for future which will help Pakistan in plugging gaps.

However regarding the shipping of parts to China, i don't think Americans would allow it infact the initial reports were saying they destroyed the parts of the helicopters. What is left would be of use ?? we can't say. I don't think a country which has built a fifth gen plane needs further inputs in this field.

 

[harpoon]

Americans have lost close to 4000+ soldiers (Iraq + Afghanistan combined), they are 4 trillion dollars in the red and chasing the ghost of an old man down little allies and across countries has made them loose their standing in the world along with denting their readiness for large scale wars in the near future also they have created more enemies for themselves so what exactly have they gained from this adventure?

But that’s not something for you Indians to answer the question is why you Indians are hiding behind America? You do accuse us of many thing and make khyali palao of doing this and that to us but balls all you have been able to do so in reality.. Why? Simply because you can not, you have no juice and Indians aren't really know to be the brave type more like conniving coward that cook up schemes.

Removing of OBL is good for Pakistan and with this your wet dream to an American invasion of Pakistan has been put to rest also. So go on and keep rubbing yourself in the hope that someone else will be able to inflict that mortal blow to Pakistan that you can only have wet dreams about.

First of all this is not 10th century when armies faced off in a large battlefield and stabbed eachother to death. This is 21st century and wars are much more complicated and are fought at multiple fronts. If you cannot understand this my friend, you are at a loss.

Soviet Union had the largest army world has ever seen, but she went down without US ever having to fire a shot in anger at the Soviets (directly that is). America beat Soviets through proxies, diplomacy, propaganda and above all economics and not by taking a shot at a T-72.

As for Indians lacking the juice, remember 1971.

Eventhough I am fan of my armed forces, I feel that the Army and Airforce chiefs should have just kept their mouth shut and had not made the "India has the same capacity" comment. However PA also over reacted knowing very well that in India final decisions in the matters of defense are made by civilians and not by the armed forces and GoI never issued a statement that India would conduct covert operation inside Pakistan.

I know that PA lost its standing among the Pakistan public after the OBL raid and are itching for a fight to restore their honor...But trust me, we are in no mood for a war...We have better things to do and I am sure that Indian Corporate Houses and Industrial Czars will fight tooth and nail to avoid a war with Pakistan. We can change our friends but not our neighbours. India and Pakistan are destined to be neighbours. We can either be North Korea-South Korea type neighbour or USA- Canada type neighbour- the decision is entirely yours.

 

[MastanKhan]

how funny is this that the chinese will copy the tech from the crap of the helicopter...pakistan already has so many made in US weapons but chinese are not able to copy the tech.. it is not that easy people....that require a lot of expertise... US is already miles ahead of anyone else.... so thinking that china will reproduce the heli in say next five years is a complete joke..

---------- Post added at 03:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 AM ----------



JFT is better than F-16 that is a new to me .. i am scared now

Sir,

It doesnot work that way---those weapons were legally obtained---for that reason---we could not copy them-----any weapon taken in war---assault or left behind during a raid is good for open season----no restrainst----no holds barred.

 

[XYON]

Personally speaking, I think that it was a blessing that Pakistan defense establishment was not aware of the scenario until the US raid in Abbotabad was completed. Otherwise, our F-16's would have chased the intruding helicopters to shoot them down & the fleet of 'over-watch' USAF F-22 Raptors circling across the Afghan border would have flown in the Pakistan border to save their retreating comrades in the Silent Hawks!!! It would have been one hell of a diplomatic and international mess otherwise if either a PAF or a USAF aircraft would have shot down in this operation.

Secondly, Obama got Osama and we got the bits and pieces from the most advanced helicopter with stealth capabilities. When the Serbians shot down the USAF F-117A fighter aircraft over Yugoslavia, the carcass of the same was sold to China. China later on built a completely reversed engineered model of the F-117A to R&D on! China has developed the WZ-19 and Z-10 variants of attack helicopters that could indeed benefit from the blown up yet completely intact pieces of the Silent Hawk in Abbotabad.

So in hind sight, IGNORANCE WAS INDEED A BLISS for Pakistan in this matter!

 

[muse]

So in hind sight, IGNORANCE WAS INDEED A BLISS for Pakistan in this matter!

And discretion the better part of Pakistan armed forces valor. For honor's sake, though it's often mistaken as shame.

 

[XYON]

And discretion the better part of Pakistan armed forces valor. For honor's sake, though it's often mistaken as shame.

'Shame' is a relative concept when you are dealing with a sole superpower of the world! Sometimes 'David' needs to lay low & observe in order for 'Goliath' to rove around!