Is the Combination of F16 Block C/D and JF17 Block 3 , sufficient ?

[The Accountant]

Project Azm is a long term 2030-2032 type project , however we still should be able to fix the problem with Older generation crafts like Mirage/F7PG , retirement with a temporary 30-36 unit purchase

The Much Improved J10B could be a great consideration to even up Pakistan Airforce
If we get 40 J10B , we will help balance the Airforce needs

Getting 40-60 J10B would be ideal scenario to get a New Generation Delta Wing craft in Pakistani Airforce

Now the Fighter Jet is able to Thrust Vector

View attachment 520111


Here is what we can achive with J10B , re-evaluation

a) Much Improved Engine
b) Thrust Vectoring Engine, new technical challenges for Pakistani Pilots to Master
c) Better, same as JF17/F16 but can carry more options
d) Bubble Canopy
e) Additional Missiles Carrying capabilities


The J10B > F7-PG
J10B > Mirage

No need of j10 ... we can achieve same capability in thunder by improving engine and integrating same weapons ... therefore block 3 should have similar fighting capability as of j10 ... we need higher thrust engine, aesa is already there ... irst pod and hmds

 

[war&peace]

Su-35 has a new engine and is a different machine in terms of reliability.

I hope so. I like Su35 and I'm sure PAF will do a much better job of keep it operational in case it opts for it.

No need of j10 ... we can achieve same capability in thunder by improving engine and integrating same weapons ... therefore block 3 should have similar fighting capability as of j10 ... we need higher thrust engine, aesa is already there ... irst pod and hmds

Size limitations. JF17 is a different weight/size category so you can't do much about the size limitations.

 

[Hayreddin]

Until 2028 PAF can go for options more realistic n approachable .
* Jf17 upgraded block 3/4 :- 200-250 , 13/14 squadrons
* F16 upgrades if available :- 72 , 4 squadrons
* Su35/J16/J31 ( depends on which one available) : 54 , 3 squadrons
* Mirage 2000 used n upgraded (if available )
or j10 C :- 54 , 3 squadrons
* J20 :- 18 -36 , 1 or 2 squadrons .

430-450 fighter jets 24/25 squadrons , Reasonable powerful and lethal airforce until we go for project azm in 2030-2040 .

 

[CriticalThought]

I hope so. I like Su35 and I'm sure PAF will do a much better job of keep it operational in case it opts for it.

Agreed. They should acquire MRO facility which would reduce the maintenance cost as well.

 

[The Accountant]

I hope so. I like Su35 and I'm sure PAF will do a much better job of keep it operational in case it opts for it.


Size limitations. JF17 is a different weight/size category so you can't do much about the size limitations.

Cost saved due to small size can be used in making up the numbers ... we have to face much bigger force in numbers ...

 

[monitor]

Until 2028 PAF can go for options more realistic n approachable .
* Jf17 upgraded block 3/4 :- 200-250 , 13/14 squadrons
* F16 upgrades if available :- 72 , 4 squadrons
* Su35/J16/J31 ( depends on which one available) : 54 , 3 squadrons
* Mirage 2000 used n upgraded (if available )
or j10 C :- 54 , 3 squadrons
* J20 :- 18 -36 , 1 or 2 squadrons .

430-450 fighter jets 24/25 squadrons , Reasonable powerful and lethal airforce until we go for project azm in 2030-2040 .

It will create logistical nightmare. Best combination might be 250+/- JF-17 Block III plus 72 upgraded F-16 and possibly few more second hand F-16 and J-10C 50-80 for both maritime and long range attack Role. This will push the number towards 400+/- is adequate with expected induction of various air defense system to counter any misadventures by IAF.

 

[The Accountant]

Until 2028 PAF can go for options more realistic n approachable .
* Jf17 upgraded block 3/4 :- 200-250 , 13/14 squadrons
* F16 upgrades if available :- 72 , 4 squadrons
* Su35/J16/J31 ( depends on which one available) : 54 , 3 squadrons
* Mirage 2000 used n upgraded (if available )
or j10 C :- 54 , 3 squadrons
* J20 :- 18 -36 , 1 or 2 squadrons .

430-450 fighter jets 24/25 squadrons , Reasonable powerful and lethal airforce until we go for project azm in 2030-2040 .

Bhai f35 or typhoon bhi add kerlo dream pora hojay ga

 

[帅的一匹]

That is for Ground Crew to figure out , and their Training the better their training and Education is the better the results are.

We can't be flying F7 and Mirages

Time to move to Modern platforms

a) JF17 (1, 2 , 3) are such platform
b) J10B is similarly another wonderful platform with Enhanced Engine


Don't see harm in inducting 40 planes for 2 squadron for J10B as a gap filling induction with main role being centered around 10 years till Project Azam shows up on Horizon

two squadrons of Su30 or J16.

 

[litman]

Same story again and again about economy.....Our economy hasn't improved in last 30 years.

it hasn't improved in last 30 yrs that's why we are at the brink of disaster and collapse right now. if we do not focus on issues of key importance right now trust me pak wont be worthy of living in any more.

 

[jupiter2007]

it hasn't improved in last 30 yrs that's why we are at the brink of disaster and collapse right now. if we do not focus on issues of key importance right now trust me pak wont be worthy of living in any more.

I have been saying about MarshalLawPlus plan for last 2 years. If nothing worked, 30’years of harsh reality of these 3rd class corrupt mafia. No more free media, no more free rides. Chinese formula to fix corruption.
New constitution, no More provinces and 18th amendments. Federal government, districts government (Zila Nazim and administration) and city government.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Project Azm is a long term 2030-2032 type project , however we still should be able to fix the problem with Older generation crafts like Mirage/F7PG , retirement with a temporary 30-36 unit purchase

The Much Improved J10B could be a great consideration to even up Pakistan Airforce
If we get 40 J10B , we will help balance the Airforce needs

Getting 40-60 J10B would be ideal scenario to get a New Generation Delta Wing craft in Pakistani Airforce

Now the Fighter Jet is able to Thrust Vector

View attachment 520111


Here is what we can achive with J10B , re-evaluation

a) Much Improved Engine
b) Thrust Vectoring Engine, new technical challenges for Pakistani Pilots to Master
c) Better, same as JF17/F16 but can carry more options
d) Bubble Canopy
e) Additional Missiles Carrying capabilities


The J10B > F7-PG
J10B > Mirage

J-10 C are avaiy now forget J-10B

Pakistan needs to replace Mirages with J-10C's with TVC Nozzle
J-17 Block III F-16's are not sufficient for IAF also they are inducting S-400 as well

Until 2028 PAF can go for options more realistic n approachable .
* Jf17 upgraded block 3/4 :- 200-250 , 13/14 squadrons
* F16 upgrades if available :- 72 , 4 squadrons
* Su35/J16/J31 ( depends on which one available) : 54 , 3 squadrons
* Mirage 2000 used n upgraded (if available )
or j10 C :- 54 , 3 squadrons
* J20 :- 18 -36 , 1 or 2 squadrons .

430-450 fighter jets 24/25 squadrons , Reasonable powerful and lethal airforce until we go for project azm in 2030-2040 .

You forgot F-22

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

What is the Immediate Dangers to Air Space Protection with

• Existance of Almost 250 Sukhoi-30 Crafts
• And purchase of 36 Rafale
• 64 Upgraded Mig29

Is the Combination of F16 Block C/D and JF17 Block 3 , sufficient ?

It is hard to imagine where would our Airforce's status would be had we not inducted the JF17 Thunders.

Now on verge of Block III arrival 2019/2020 , we are witnessing a new Era in development of Pakistan Air force.

JF-17 now potentially armed with an additional 2 Missile Launching hard points , 2 Long range Air to Air Missiles and new fresh Radar and Engine will certainly enhance the capabilities of National Defense.

Where will the Block III rank , vs Rafale considering the Thunder is getting a improved Radar , Improved Engine for better speed and agility and more closer Block C/D level flight acrobatics and maneuvering


Do the Radar/ Avionics upgrade would help bridge the game between JF17 I/II vs Rafale crafts?



From size prespective , Rafael are almost same size as the JF17 Thunders but they do enjoy a better Publicity about their Weapon's package and Duel Engine configuration

India's strategy has been to combine a Large Fighter , and a light Agile platform Rafael to create a Air force which has best elements from Western/Russian technology

View attachment 520102


The problem at hand can be well understood with following image

The hindrance in sustained growth in F16 C/D numbers have meant a bit more pressure is put forth on the JF17 platform , to coming thru with flying colors by the time JF17 Block III is released

Had 18-25 F16 C/D arrived on schedule we could have argued that both Primary Platforms have continued to evolve


View attachment 520101


Many people don't consider the F-7PG / Mirages to be much more then
hindrance in path of Sukhoi-30/Rafale threats. While both Mirage/F7 carry live weapons and Air to Air Missile the effectiveness of these older platform in a long duration battle is questionable

~120 JF-17 BLK I / II (upgraded)
~100-150 JF-17 BLK III
~78+ F-16
~30-40 Mirages
more than enough to counter Indian Air Force !

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The way I look at the issue

100 JF17 (Block I / Block II) possible Radar upgrade
75 F16 Block C/D Year 2005 upgrades

Induct 90
Order 40 J10 C/D (Thrust Vector Engine, Increased hard points, IRST, AESA radar)
Order 50 JF17 (Block III) Full Package (Engine/Radar/Helmet Targeting System)


Shortfall 60 Crafts

• Keep Room for 40 Azm Prototypes around 2025-2030
• Attain 25 F16 in open market second hand from European friendly countries
• Or We Order 25 J10 C/D top up order

Attain 2 EW centric units from Saab

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retire 150
Only good for Air to Ground Missions or Support Role at close/medium range
Or move fleet to Border with Afghanistan / Storage

These birds need a years 2018 Upgraded Radar/Modern Missile and EW pods to stay relevant

• Retire Mirages Retire plane keep pilots happy in new birds
• Retire F7-PG Retire plane keep pilots happy in new birds

 

[jupiter2007]

~120 JF-17 BLK I / II (upgraded)
~100-150 JF-17 BLK III
~78+ F-16
~30-40 Mirages
more than enough to counter Indian Air Force !

We have zero JF-17 BLK III and depend on economic conditions we might be able to build 50 by 2027.

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

We have zero JF-17 BLK III and depend on economic conditions we might be able to build 50 by 2027.

I know we have 0 BLK III, I am talking about future scenario,If we make around 20 BLK III annually staring from 2020 we will have 100 BLK III by 2025.