Is secularisation of Pakistan possible?

[Myth_buster_1]

Your words are too complex for me to comprehend but in short I will tell you Pakistan whole national existence is based on being Muslim and Muslim only and any attempt of secularism is seen as threat to their very national foundation of showing being different to India. Congress may have have their hands but 2NT openly says that two communities can and should not live together, major burden goes to those who proposed 2NT.

It is amazing to think that a Child reading in his school textbook that Muslims and Hindus are alien to each other(mentioned in TNT) and at same time think of secularism and mingling with non-Muslims.

Sir Pakistan political system is anything but ISLAMIC.

 

[ashokdeiva]

FYI, tolerance and equal rights are part of Islam and are supposed to be part of the system of governance.

but its not practised, is it? come on mate don't fool yourself telling that ISLAM has tolerance and equal rights in reality, yes it does but not in reality only in belife which is long forgoten. you wana practise all that you belive then you don't have to see spritual guidance for a Mullah who twists the religion to his wish.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

but its not practised, is it? come on mate don't fool yourself telling that ISLAM has tolerance and equal rights in reality, yes it does but not in reality only in belife which is long forgoten. you wana practise all that you belive then you don't have to see spritual guidance for a Mullah who twists the religion to his wish.

Forget secular Eu and US, where several movements to ban Islam and Muslims are enjoying wide support, even Secular yet Muslim majority Turkey bans the headscarf in Universities. True secularism really doesn't exist anywhere, they'll always find some reason to limit Muslims or Islam-related things

My point? To make you realise that Secularm, while a nice concept, isn't really practiced most of the time as it is preached either.

For Pakistan, I'm not saying follow the Sharia, all that needs to be done is modify the law (largely non-religion oriented anyway) to accomodate the minorities better, to give equal rights (which are mostly given anyway) instead of going fully secular.

 

[ashokdeiva]

Forget secular Eu and US, where several movements to ban Islam and Muslims are enjoying wide support, even Secular yet Muslim majority Turkey bans the headscarf in Universities. True secularism really doesn't exist anywhere, they'll always find some reason to limit Muslims or Islam-related things.

My point? To make you realise that Secularm, while a nice concept, isn't really practiced most of the time as it is preached.

For Pakistan, I'm not saying follow the Sharia, all that needs to be done is modify the law (largely non-religion oriented anyway) to accomodate the minorities better, instead of going fully secular.

i don't know why the way a dress is making so much fuz in Muslims. Universities are a place of education and you dont have to reveal the world that you belong to a perticular religion in the class room. all you do there is study but if the same head scarf if banned else where then you can claim its against secularism.
Schools are a place to minimize the divide in people and there is no place from religion in schools and university.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Under shariah what is the punishment for apostasy?

As far as i know,3 of the 4 schools of islamic jurisprusence advocate killing the apostate while the remainig one advocate imprisonment until converted back.There are several sahih hadiths supporting this.For eg:
Bukhari, volume 9, #17

"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Yes it is true but, i personally would support death punishment for a murderer however it is not essential to execute married adulterer or apostate because he/she does not have a significant impact in the society. Prophet Mohammed has commanded us to do a lot of things which is "obligatory" and the punishments in these two cases is NOT and its only optional. Muslims who have got nothing else to do "jahiliyya" only emphasize on such matters and ignore more essential element of the religion. Exile is also a good alternative in some cases.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Schools are a place to minimize the divide in people and there is no place from religion in schools and university.

That's a concept itself.
It should't be 'minimise the divide, hence ban so and enforce so; but rather, conscious efforts to divide the students up must not exist, while also letting them have a choice in what they wear.

That's especially important for religious clothing; you can't go around banning the headscarf because the majority doesn't wear it, as you then also need to ban the Metalhead and Gothic clothing, for example, because while some people might dress up like that, most don't.

Same applies for other items of clothing as well, like skirts for example: why should you ban the headscarf only some girls wear, and not ban skirts, which too only some girls wear?

 

[ashokdeiva]

That's a concept itself.
It should't be 'minimise the divide, hence ban so and enforce so; but rather, conscious efforts to divide the students up must not exist, while also letting them have a choice in what they wear.

That's especially important for religious clothing; you can't go around banning the headscarf because the majority doesn't wear it, as you then also need to ban the Metalhead and Gothic clothing, for example, because while some people might dress up like that, most don't.

Same applies for other items of clothing as well, like skirts for example: why should you ban the headscarf only some girls wear, and not ban skirts, which too only some girls wear?

skirts are not realated to any religion on the other hand head scarf is related too, don't you still get it my friend.

banning head scarf is the same as banning eating or drinking water in the month of eid in Soudhi Arabia. when you guys do not oppose such a law that bans people from eating and drinking in public why oppose a law that is ment not to divide the young minds at school itself.

 

[truthseer]

the month of eid

Don't embarrass yourself further please

 

[DRaisinHerald]

skirts are not realated to any religion on the other hand head scarf is related too, don't you still get it my friend

I don't know about Saudi Arabia, but in Pakistan one is not forced to fast

why oppose a law that is ment not to divide the young minds at school itself.

That's great; I like it. Religious impartiality: ban the ******* Muslim headscarf; and while your at it, ban the beard and their language as well, as they all contribute to "creating divisions".

 

[Joe Shearer]

Don't embarrass yourself further please

He's trying his best. Try not to act smart with people who are in communication. The alternative is not to be in communication.

 

[ashokdeiva]

I don't know about Saudi Arabia, but in Pakistan one is not forced to fast



That's great; I like it. Religious impartiality: ban the ******* Muslim headscarf; and while your at it, ban the beard and their language as well, as they all contribute to "creating divisions".

head scarf is not only related to Muslim, even old fashioned in chirstianity and jewish culture, but they have moved on and blened with the rest but you guys insit on this headscarf as if its your only identity.

Don't embarrass yourself further please

the laughable thing is that people do not know how to be rational and at the end they say not embarrass oneself when they have nothing to say meaningful to the topic at hand.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

have moved on and blened with the rest but you guys insit on this headscarf as if its your only identity

That's not the problem here. Different Muslim sects have slightly different views on the this concept, but my point is: is this what secularism is? Why do secular societies not show their secularity when it comes to Muslims? Or is it a concept that does apply to us?
Why ban something that is not harmful to them or the society?

 

[ashokdeiva]

That's not the problem here. Different Muslim sects have slightly different views on the this concept, but my point is: is this what secularism is? Why do secular societies not show their secularity when it comes to Muslims? Or is it a concept that does apply to us?
Why ban something that is not harmful to them or the society?

it is indeed harmful when this headscarf is practised in place of education.
For example lets say a class of 100 girls study in a university in the same class room and 15 girls are from muslim back ground and there is no ban on headscarf and these girls wear it to school. The first day they enter the class they will group together as one single entity on common grounds seeing that they are all wearing headscarf and this unity will do what? it will prevent them from forming an aliance or friendship with the rest of the girls and the rest of the girls themself will make sure that these muslim girls are not part of the rest of the class.
i do not want such a divid in the young minds just because of this head scarf and if i were the education minister of my state, even i would be doing the same. but the place i live is INDIA and we are too tolerant for this and the muslims brother/sisters themself do not give too much importance for this headscarf in my country

 

[truthseer]

the laughable thing is that people do not know how to be rational and at the end they say not embarrass oneself when they have nothing to say meaningful to the topic at hand.

There's no month of Eid

 

[ashokdeiva]

There's no month of Eid

i am not a Mulsim to know the difference between Ramzan and Eid, you could have shared me the details rather then telling me to stop embarrasing myself. ignorance is not embarrasment, its an oppertunity to learn some thing that i don't know.