Is Pakistan Better Off Industrially (and More Diverse in Industrial Production) Compared to Bangladesh?

[Mrityunjay Rai]

There is no hate for Indians themselves, in fact I have a lot of respect for many, many Indians on this forum, irrespective of religion. But two things,

1. I have no respect for haters and fascists in India e.g., BJP, RSS, Bajrang Dal, Shivsena etc. If you are a supporter of these outfits, then rightfully you won't enjoy any economic support from any Muslim country including Bangladesh. Fair is fair.

2. Your current govt. has been blocking Bangladeshi imports under one flimsy pretext against another for over five decades (total Bangladeshi exports to India are usually about a Billion or so yearly). While enjoying exports to and services from Bangladesh for approximately $50 Billion or more yearly. Why should we support current Indian economy and give a badge of honor to Modi govt. and run their country for them? None of India's neighbors (even majority Hindu countries like Nepal) has good relationships with current Indian govt. This is due to uneven Indian foreign and trade policies.

In Bangladesh we call this situation, "Sola anna hamara, aur char anna tumhara". This cannot stand.

In any case - this is off topic comment from you and thread-hijacking attempt which is against forum rules. Please open a separate thread if you want to discuss. You won't because most Sanghis don't have a leg to stand on (on this topic), as far as arguments.

Yeah - boo hoo, the world hates you. Sanghi cry babies even created a term for it and wiki page "indo-phobia". They will feed themselves delusory concepts on why the world is wrong about India but India is of course "Mahaan". They are trying to legitimize Indophobia like it is discrimination, almost like anti-semitism.

The thing is, sanghis are the number one reason why.

Anti-Indian sentiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thread hijacking ?
Who brought India in the thread without a simple fact check ?
Even a simple google search would have shown that machines are cheaper in India and for that matter Indian Industrial complex in much more advance than Pakistan.

Any way continue with your Pakistan-Bangladesh bromace without unnecessarily bringing India. I am least ,if not at all bothered about friendship between citizens of these two countries.

 

[Bilal9]

Production of Motorcycle rear chain sprocket wheel mass manufacturing at basic level in Pakistan. The cost-to-performance ratio is hard to beat. Proper QA will ensure a better product but raise the price as well. Will be nice to balance these two factors. We in Bangladesh can definitely take a lesson from Pakistan on how to use recycled high quality readily available ship plate from our ship recyclers in Sitakunda (Chittagong) and value to make far more value-addition than melt these down and make re-bars.

Ship recycling steel are the basis of making basic parts of motorcycles, which is the most pervasive light engineering industry in both Bangladesh and Pakistan.

 

[Meengla]

Not that I am an expert in economies or industrial productions but I still think Pakistan is (potentially) way ahead of ANY other South Asian country in industrial infrastructure with the exception of India. Pakistan has the land, the geographical location, the population, and indeed enough entrepreneur base to excel. Pakistan is not one of the Central Asian 'Stans who, despite resources and peace, are stagnant.

We forget that Pakistan's economy and was ahead of even India through the 1980s and that Pakistan was a robust emerging agriculture and industrial economy in the 1960s. Yes, corruption is not unique to Pakistan!! Where Pakistan lagged behind is in the realm of stability, starting with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979. Forget the geopolitical impact on the economy, even internally Pakistan's politics changed, perhaps permanently, after 1979, not only it became lot more ethnic, unprincipled, but also lot more corrupt and all that can be traced to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Bangladesh is mentioned repeatedly as an area of particular concern in a Pentagon report about Climate change, given to President Trump. BD was singled out as THE major place for Climate Change disaster where the USA will have to get involved. It is a ticking timebomb unless Climate Change is reversed. And I am sad to say this. It was not BD's fault to be facing this--but the fault of larger and/or richer countries over many decades. There should be compensation given to those countries affected by the Climate Change!

 

[Bilal9]

To illustrate the point further, of how pervasive this industry is in roadside workshops in Pakistan, here are a few more examples. True, production may be lower than CNC-everything shops in the West, but here we are talking about appropriate technology and products which people in our countries can actually afford. High quality and High tolerance products can come later, products of "appropriate quality" at "appropriate prices" is what I advocate right now, and for those, this type of production process (though a bit messy) is ideal.

 

[faani83]

Look at the level of innovation and problem solving

 

[Bilal9]

Here is a Sprocket mfr. in China (1st half of video) showing a bit improved process compared to the subcontinent. For finishing the sprocket punched blanks, CNC process is used which improves product tolerance, consistency and quantity produced. However CNC machines are not cheap and can only be invested in - if higher returns for quality can be assured by finding export markets. One thing not shown in the Pakistani videos, but shown in this Chinese video is tempering or heat treatment for the sprocket teeth, which is essential for improved wear when in contact with chains.

 

[Bilal9]

To highlight two more machinery mfrs. in Lahore area, Hafiz Lathe machines and Al-Noor Machinery. These companies produce all well known automotive machinery and of course lathes of various bed sizes, Shapers, grinders, drill presses from small to large etc.

Hafiz Lathe Machines:

Al Noor Machinery (also specializing in automotive workshop machinery)

Automobile Machines - Al Noor Machinery

Automobile Machines

alnoormachinery.com

 

[TheSolution]

I am waiting for the day where Bangladesh economically powerful to defy India and start arming it forces accordingly.

It would be a dream to see collaboration of Indonesia-Turkey- malaysia- Bangladesh-(Pakistan) for future fighter jets. China is to big and will be involved in some way.

I put Pakistan in brackets as they are a wild card - will the international community be able to stomach a nuclear armed Muslim country having cutting edge fighter jets?

What?

We have project Azm ongoing currently for a 5th generation jet, we've just purchased 4.5 generation jets from China that are in the leagues of Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale, F16, etc. And we've also already had, and currently ongoing, a joint-venture project with China on a fighter jet. (See JF-17 Block 3). There is even speculation of Pakistan being involved in Turkey's TFX, and Chinese involvement in Azm. Even our current F-16 fleet is pretty solid, our pilots have taken out Typhoons in dogfights during exercises with the British RAF.

The international community has no say in what independent sovereign nations choose to do between themselves. They may feel some type of way but it would be foolish to expect public statements in that regard.

Every attempt to access our nukes has failed, what makes you think a 5th or 6th generation jet would be any different?

 

[peagle]

To illustrate the point further, of how pervasive this industry is in roadside workshops in Pakistan, here are a few more examples. True, production may be lower than CNC-everything shops in the West, but here we are talking about appropriate technology and products which people in our countries can actually afford. High quality and High tolerance products can come later, products of "appropriate quality" at "appropriate prices" is what I advocate right now, and for those, this type of production process (though a bit messy) is ideal.

I've really learnt a lot from this thread, thank you. Not just the videos and information but the interpretation of that information, it really has been fascinating.
I had seen these videos before but without giving it a further thought. I naturally assumed that such industries would exist in most developing countries. Is that not the case? or is the variety of these small scale industries more varied in Pakistan?

What is the defining lesson here?

Usual hate for India and anything Indian....

This is 8 foot lathe having price of INR 1.55 Lakhs which translate to approx 3.40 Lakhs PKR.

But again a man blinded by hate will not be able to see the obvious.

I fail to see how does hate comes into this?

He is merely providing his perspective, you are free to provide yours, there is no hate. In making such a claim you are just showing your mind-set, that's sad.

From what I have observed, this guy is open to honest communication, so rather then labelling and finger pointing, just communicate.

 

[HRK]

One of the Company involved in Manufacturing of Machinery for many fields such as Pharmaceutical Machinery [click here] , Packing [click here], Processing [click here] etc. etc.

Plz click here For Company website

 

[HRK]

Few of the PMTF products

 

[HRK]

Few of the wrapping machines products of Lahore Engineering (website)

there are many small scale Manufacturers of Machinery and engineering parts manufacturing business who don't have their presence on Internet but are working with dedicated clientele in local markets

 

[Bilal9]

I've really learnt a lot from this thread, thank you. Not just the videos and information but the interpretation of that information, it really has been fascinating.
I had seen these videos before but without giving it a further thought. I naturally assumed that such industries would exist in most developing countries. Is that not the case? or is the variety of these small scale industries more varied in Pakistan?

What is the defining lesson here?

Well defining lesson is that the investments in Bangladesh and Pakistan have been in different spheres.

Light Engg. in Bangladesh has been relatively ignored as a grassroots investment vehicle, while case is different in Pakistan, it is much more well developed there with roadside workshops producing import substitute automotive spares and whole subassemblies and of course assembled vehicles of superior quality.

I don't know if proximity to Ludhiana in Indian Punjab is a factor, but in the subcontinent that whole Pakistani industrial triangle that includes Gujranwala (light engg.) and Sialkot (sports goods and stainless steel cutlery/lab implements) for export sector is also part of the Ludhiana corridor in Indian Punjab where light engineering industry is very well invested.

In fact Ludhiana used to be world's center for everyday bicycle exports (not high end items to my knowledge) before the industry kicked in - In Bangladesh where bicycle manufacturing is huge now. I don't know if China is too expensive for making bicycles now - but Bangladesh exports in some cases have tripled, along with some other SE Asian low-wage countries.

In fact Bangladeshi brands are exporting their higher class Chromoly alloy-framed bikes to Indian market in addition to EU and US in small quantities. There is also a move to manufacture and export fiberglass framed bikes too, but those are a much pricier niche market which IMHO is impractical for countries like Bangladesh to explore, but they are dabbling in it anyway.

I fail to see how does hate comes into this?

He is merely providing his perspective, you are free to provide yours, there is no hate. In making such a claim you are just showing your mind-set, that's sad.

From what I have observed, this guy is open to honest communication, so rather then labelling and finger pointing, just communicate.

Thanks Bhai for having my back on this.

I mentioned that I have no specific "hate" for Indians as a people (Hate is pointless), only disagreement with fascist or other uneven-keeled illogical views of certain individuals maybe who just happen to be Indians. If anything, I am an anti-hate propagandist.

Everything I provided in these pages are simply an expression of my opinion. If you disagree, then engage me with logic. Those are the rules of engagement.

 

[Bilal9]

A huge vote of thanks to @HRK Bhaisaab for his wonderful posts a few hours ago. Wow! Great selection of industrial and light engg. machines which I am sure will be great alternatives to businessmen in Bangladesh - who usually try to source from India, counting on low freight cost and availability of experts. Options are always a great thing, and Pakistani trade competition with India will be great for Bangladeshi buyers.

From what I've heard - quality of Pakistani lathes and workshop machines are in no way worse than Indian products (in fact maybe better) and if CNC machining centers are available at reasonable cost - than skies are the limit for sales in Bangladesh, which is just now trying to diversify into metal processing value addition exports and light engg. sector.

I was especially impressed with advanced PMTF products shown in the posts above.

Some in Bangladesh might question why I'm trying to promote Pakistani basic machinery products when cutting edge advanced Chinese, Korean and Japanese CNC turret punches and automated CNC machines are available for use in export oriented industry and there are some sectors in Bangladesh who use these types of high-priced technology already for export products.

The reason is that at some point in every country's development it passes from export growth driven economy to internal consumer demand driven economy, Both Pakistan and Bangladesh are at that stage now and to have that happen seamlessly, you need a light engg. industry which can supply reasonably priced local import substitute products using local informal sector.

This is part of the reason that Indian market (which is huge) can still survive by supplying import substitute products to meet internal demand without being an export juggernaut (not saying that they are not however).

Even for countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan, harmonization of these engg. capabilities and markets is very much needed without uneven trade pressures from a manufacturing juggernaut like India. One-sided market domination by Indian machinery, FMCG and commodity products in Bangladesh with zero representation by Pakistan is an unhealthy thing. Particularly so, when we have such a huge trade gap ongoing with India for fifty years - 95% in their favor. The fact that Indian suppliers have been very unreliable of late has been eye-opening for us in Bangladesh too, with Onions, Potatoes and Vaccine market manipulation. Doing business with Indians have been trying - to say the least, when they routinely withhold shipments of product already paid for in full and with cash. We have to have alternative sourcing strategies besides that from India.

To test the waters in Bangladesh, Pakistan should host an yearly light engineering show in Dhaka to demonstrate machinery capabilities - unless they do it already. Indians do it in Dhaka on a yearly basis.

The more Pakistani businesses get at the grassroots level in Bangladesh light engineering sector to assist, the better their chances of success will be for sales of machinery that uses manual labor and appropriate technology. This is essential for meeting demand of agricultural machinery and automotive parts which is day by day becoming a huge sector in Bangladesh.

I think Pakistani Trade Representatives should open a permanent showroom in Dhaka, install some of these machines on the floor as working examples and have technical experts on hand to answer any questions from buyers. Closer people-to-people as well as trade interaction between Pakistan and Bangladesh will be wonderful to allay and put to rest fears, misunderstanding and apprehension between our brotherly countries.

 

[peagle]

Well defining lesson is that the investments in Bangladesh and Pakistan have been in different spheres.

Light Engg. in Bangladesh has been relatively ignored as a grassroots investment vehicle, while case is different in Pakistan, it is much more well developed there with roadside workshops producing import substitute automotive spares and whole subassemblies and of course assembled vehicles of superior quality.

I don't know if proximity to Ludhiana in Indian Punjab is a factor, but in the subcontinent that whole Pakistani industrial triangle that includes Gujranwala (light engg.) and Sialkot (sports goods and stainless steel cutlery/lab implements) for export sector is also part of the Ludhiana corridor in Indian Punjab where light engineering industry is very well invested.

In fact Ludhiana used to be world's center for everyday bicycle exports (not high end items to my knowledge) before the industry kicked in - In Bangladesh where bicycle manufacturing is huge now. I don't know if China is too expensive for making bicycles now - but Bangladesh exports in some cases have tripled, along with some other SE Asian low-wage countries.

In fact Bangladeshi brands are exporting their higher class Chromoly alloy-framed bikes to Indian market in addition to EU and US in small quantities. There is also a move to manufacture and export fiberglass framed bikes too, but those are a much pricier niche market which IMHO is impractical for countries like Bangladesh to explore, but they are dabbling in it anyway.



Thanks Bhai for having my back on this.

I mentioned that I have no specific "hate" for Indians as a people (Hate is pointless), only disagreement with fascist or other uneven-keeled illogical views of certain individuals maybe who just happen to be Indians. If anything, I am an anti-hate propagandist.

Everything I provided in these pages are simply an expression of my opinion. If you disagree, then engage me with logic. Those are the rules of engagement.

Thank you.


Indian Punjab has less then zero impact, if anything they would have to be influenced by Pakistani Punjab, but I think that's also unlikely as well, because there has been minimal interaction between the two Punjab's until around 15-20 years ago.

The Pakistani Punjab has always been the economic, cultural and political heartland of the Punjab region, so what you see is essentially all home grown. Baring few light units, there was almost zero industry of any kind at independence.

I might be wrong, but since most of the British army consisted of Punjabis, and to a lesser degree Pathans, I think their exposure to the rest of the world probably influenced the adaptation of new methods, acknowledgement of what's happening around the world, and development of individual drive. Obviously there are other factors, but I think this factor must have played it's role.

If you take Indian Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh these were previously part of Punjab region, these three areas still provide one third of Indian army. Over time it has reduced but at independence around half or more of the Indian army was from this region. If there is similar industrial growth in Indian Punjab then my hypothesis might be relevant.



Regarding that idiot, don't even worry about it, India is a nation consumed by hate, that's why they are continuously killing each other. We have our problems but it is not regular and when anything happens the entire nation is enraged, I am talking about us and you guys, at least from the little I know.

But I read your replies afterwards, and you gave what he deserved.
Stay blessed.