Is Pakistan army best trained in Muslim world? (all else equal) - PLS NO INDIANS, not Indian topic

[Progressive1]

not commenting on other aspects but Pak army is very battle hardened, it has faced the scare of a numerically way superior force to fighting proxy wars against the best along with the best and fighting one of the most dreadful ideological guerrilla force this is as much experience as it is on offer in modern warfare.

 

[Kompromat]

And just for the luls, when army has lost, it withdraws. When Pak army lost war vs India, it withdrew its army. Doesn't leave it there to be slaughtered. US army lost 50k+ soldiers in Vietnam. You expect them to stay until they lost their country?

All great powers have surrendered to their enemies. Its meant to save lives from being lost when there is no purpose left to fight for. The Indians have a low self esteem and regard a victory over an Army outnumbered by 1-20 with zero resources left, no air force, no naval support, no supply lines, no reinforcement and broken down LoCs, as a triumf simply because they have no other warfare history of their own to cherish post independence. It wasn't even their victory as most of the damage was done by the Bengali rebels. In 1965 we were outnumbered but not outgunned, we gave them a run for their money and forced them to request a UN ceasefire. They were humiliated by the Chinese in just under a week.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

My feedback

Man Power prespective : Well equipped , as a world war 2 force
Military equipment (Not airforce) : The equipment is not technologically top of the line
Military lacks ability to build Tank Engines
Military lacks ability to build Jeep engines
Military lacks any advance weapons , most of the weaponry is conventional weapons
We don't have "advance encrypted" communication channels , we need but 200-300 communication sets from USA to feel good.
UAV program is in its infancy

The tank programs all have imported tank engines , which is a "risk" as we can't produce new engines and tanks on our need to need basis we rely on outside country for the main component of Tank

Only plus point is the Missile program and Nuclear program

Besides that the force is fairly ww2 level.

Lack of Helicopters
Minimum Transport capacity for transporting assets

Overall , lack of ability to transport heavy tanks to strategic areas

Pakistan Railways / Transport ... non existent now , due to lack of locomoties

Night mission capabilities of armed forces , is questionable night vision and integration of such devices in all military vehicles etc


When I see the Pakistani forces trucks /Rangers etc I do not see any visible Modernization elements ... it looks fairly WW2 level setup , which was lethal in its own way just we do not have Modernization visible in forces in equipment and physical visble signs


We are in 2014 , and modern warfare standard is

a) Supercomputers for anti encryption / SAM missiles usage
b) Advance War Command and control centers
c) Adance armor in vehicles
d) Strong Automotive sector
e) Nightvision and technical weapons independence
f) New level of fitness and training for all troops
g) Research and development in Robotics sector
h) UAV and recon technology programs
i) Sattelite system and network of communication options\
j) Control over all communication channels for tracking Anti Terror elements
k) Visible signs of Latest technology in Tanks , Vehicles
l) Advance SAM systems , RADARs system
m) Transport programs for ability to transport forces in 1-2 hours to any location in country

 

[foxbat]

All great powers have surrendered to their enemies. Its meant to save lives from being lost when there is no purpose left to fight for. The Indians have a low self esteem and regard a victory over an Army outnumbered by 1-20 with zero resources left, no air force, no naval support, no supply lines, no reinforcement and broken down LoCs, as a triumf simply because they have no other warfare history of their own to cherish post independence. In 1965 we were outnumbered but not outgunned, we gave them a run for their money and forced them to request a UN ceasefire. They were humiliated by the Chinese in just under a week.

You are such a sore loser mate. In 1971, we not only defeated your garrison in East Pakistan but also negated your attempt to open an additional front on Rajasthan and Punjab Borders in the west.

In 1965, please look at the areas under each others' occupation when the ceasefire talks began. Also in 1965, it was Pakistan who initiated hostilities to capture Kashmir by trying to repeat the 1947 approach of sending militants/terrorists into the valley. And then when that descended into a full blown war, declared victory by saving Lahore from falling.

Talk about low self esteem

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Are you making it top 10 because of nukes? Or just conventional weapons?

Or lets say Saudia and Turkey also have nukes. But Pakistan has all weapons that Turkey has.

Like in a chess game, both opponents have exact replica of units. The person who wins has probably better training. So in that case, Pak land naval and air power will be superior?

nope Pak doesn't have better training then Turkey & also Turkey has better weapons (minus the nukes) , a better trained force achieves victory in wars, & if it cannot achieve victory then the training is not good its simple as that, that's my view on warfare, victory is everything. a force that has victory has better training
training with out victory is useless

 

[WishLivePak]

All great powers have surrendered to their enemies. Its meant to save lives from being lost when there is no purpose left to fight for. The Indians have a low self esteem and regard a victory over an Army outnumbered by 1-20 with zero resources left, no air force, no naval support, no supply lines, no reinforcement and broken down LoCs, as a triumf simply because they have no other warfare history of their own to cherish post independence. In 1965 we were outnumbered but not outgunned, we gave them a run for their money and forced them to request a UN ceasefire. They were humiliated by the Chinese in just under a week.

Bro I agree with you. But he won't understand that and took my thread off topic. When you withdraw an army after 50k deaths, clearly you've lost a war.

We lost Bangladesh because it was far off. If bangladesh never had problems with Pakistan and connected to Pakistan, we would've given Indians another run.

Perhaps you heard this before. When China attacked India to seize some territory in 62 i think, then Gandhi said to Pakistan that we will resolve Kashmir issue fast. Essentially India was begging not to be attacked and unfortunately Pak fell prey to such tactic. They changed their mind later on. Had Pak decided to invade India along with China, no way India could've defended Kashmir. We already defeated them somewhat in 65 and in 62, we were very much stronger in position than 65, as India would've been fighting 2 wars and also 62 made India military prepare better for future wars.

 

[Progressive1]

All great powers have surrendered to their enemies. Its meant to save lives from being lost when there is no purpose left to fight for. The Indians have a low self esteem and regard a victory over an Army outnumbered by 1-20 with zero resources left, no air force, no naval support, no supply lines, no reinforcement and broken down LoCs, as a triumf simply because they have no other warfare history of their own to cherish post independence. In 1965 we were outnumbered but not outgunned, we gave them a run for their money and forced them to request a UN ceasefire. They were humiliated by the Chinese in just under a week.

yes, assuming battle has some degree of parity/fairness , Indian army's achievements is a stalemate against a numerically smaller force(west Pak in both wars)/or siachin, while result was poor when met with a equal force;stalemate against China in 1962 would have been something to be really cherish about

 

[Kompromat]

You are such a sore loser mate. In 1971, we not only defeated your garrison in East Pakistan but also negated your attempt to open an additional front on Rajasthan and Punjab Borders in the west.

In 1965, please look at the areas under each others' occupation when the ceasefire talks began. Also in 1965, it was Pakistan who initiated hostilities to capture Kashmir by trying to repeat the 1947 approach of sending militants/terrorists into the valley. And then when that descended into a full blown war, declared victory by saving Lahore from falling.

Talk about low self esteem

India didn't defeat E.Pakistan Army, Bangla rebels did. Your hypocrisy of mentioning the 71 war where your country actually sent its uniformed army to fight in our civil war on the side of the then terrorists now rebels and Kashmir. Pakistan didn't initiate the 1965 war, your PM Shastri did by annexing Kashmir illegally in 1964.

 

[WishLivePak]

You are such a sore loser mate. In 1971, we not only defeated your garrison in East Pakistan but also negated your attempt to open an additional front on Rajasthan and Punjab Borders in the west.

In 1965, please look at the areas under each others' occupation when the ceasefire talks began. Also in 1965, it was Pakistan who initiated hostilities to capture Kashmir by trying to repeat the 1947 approach of sending militants/terrorists into the valley. And then when that descended into a full blown war, declared victory by saving Lahore from falling.

Talk about low self esteem

We admit that India defeated Pak. If US attacks Afghanistan in 71, is it going to be happy that it defeated a much smaller army?
The point is, Bangladesh was far off. You used Bangladeshis feeling. Essentially we were fighting 2 enemies. You would've truly won Pakistan if you captured Bangaldesh, or even Pakistan.

 

[Kompromat]

yes, assuming battle has some degree of parity/fairness , Indian army's achievements is a stalemate against a numerically smaller force(west Pak in both wars)/or siachin, while result was poor when met with a equal force;stalemate against China in 1962 would have been something to be really cherish about

Not joining Chinese war against India was perhaps the biggest blunder in our history.

 

[WishLivePak]

And what has become of my thread... It wasn't any Indian thread. It spoke of muslim army, and I referenced Turkey. But God damn these trolls! Bringing India in everything.

 

[foxbat]

India didn't defeat E.Pakistan Army, Bangla rebels did. Your hypocrisy of mentioning the 71 war where your country actually sent its uniformed army to fight in our civil war on the side of the then terrorists now rebels and Kashmir. Pakistan didn't initiate the 1965 war, your PM Shastri did by annexing Kashmir illegally in 1964.

First of all, I did not mention 1971 in this thread, you did.
Secondly, Sending uniformed army is better than sending ununiformed terrorists that Pakistan has done 3 out of 4 times it has got into a war with India
Thirdly, Kashmir has never been a part of Pakistan and in 1964, Shastri did not try to alter any borders. You did in 1965 and failed miserably.

 

[Kompromat]

And what has become of my thread... It wasn't any Indian thread. It spoke of muslim army, and I referenced Turkey. But God damn these trolls! Bringing India in everything.

Give it a few decades. The greatest Muslim army would be Russia

 

[foxbat]

Not joining Chinese war against India was perhaps the biggest blunder in our history.

No. I think sending the tribals to capture Kashmir in 1947 was since if that had not happened, the whole Kashmir would have been a part of Pakistan and South Asia would have been a much more peaceful area. We all are paying the price of Jinnah losing his nerve in the game of chicken with the Maharaja of Kashmir

 

[Kompromat]

First of all, I did not mention 1971 in this thread, you did.
Secondly, Sending uniformed army is better than sending ununiformed terrorists that Pakistan has done 3 out of 4 times it has got into a war with India
Thirdly, Kashmir has never been a part of Pakistan and in 1964, Shastri did not try to alter any borders. You did in 1965 and failed miserably.

Sending your uniformed soldiers cements your position as a state sponsor of terrorism. Kashmir has never been Part of India nor will it ever be, we Muslims will fight for it just as we waged 17 wars for Somnath and 9 crusades for Jerusalem.

Back to the topic.