Is Pakistan army best trained in Muslim world? (all else equal) - PLS NO INDIANS, not Indian topic

[Thirdfront]

IMO, Saudis or Indonesia might be strongest... You can't call armies that were defeated so badly in war as strongest...

 

[WishLivePak]

ignore equipment?
you just want to know about the power in their shoulders?

I meant to say if both nations have similar equipment. You read my thread properly?

IMO, Saudis or Indonesia might be strongest... You can't call armies that were defeated so badly in war as strongest...

Wasn't US defeated numerous times? Or soviet? Or UK? Or ottoman?

Typical Indian ruining a thread. Just because you lost wars doesn't mean you don't stand strong.

 

[Thirdfront]

I meant to say if both nations have similar equipment. You read my thread properly?


Wasn't US defeated numerous times? Or soviet? Or UK? Or ottoman?

Typical Indian ruining a thread. Just because you lost wars doesn't mean you don't stand strong.

Sorry, neither US nor Soviet army have been defeated..... Sure they lost wars, but their army have been been pretty much invincible till now.. Before you start some other nonsense reply, look up how hannibal never lost a battle but lost a war...

 

[WishLivePak]

Sorry, neither US nor Soviet army have been defeated..... Sure they lost wars, but their army have been been pretty much invincible till now.. Before you start some other nonsense reply, look up how hannibal never lost a battle but lost a war...

Before you quote me again, read my post properly.

"defeated numerous times" clearly means they lost many battles. They lost Vietnam, Afghanistan and so forth. But perhaps an Indian uses different dictionary. What happened with UK as US declared independence? Or big Ottoman empire? What shall I say when a nation loses a war? Can't say they were defeated, it's forbidden, right? Might upset an Indian!

 

[Kompromat]

You cannot ignore equipment as it builds the fighting capabilities. Turkey beats Pakistan hands down in conventional firepower in Air, Land and Sea.

Pakistan though has better manpower standards, tougher training as we have a standing Army which is utterly combat hardened. Our Pilots have better training again owing to our combat experience, and our intelligence agency is far superior to that of Turkey, even though they more often than not work together. Our tank forces perhaps would have similar-ish capabilities. Turkey beats us in logistical air lift capability and its military is more net centric than ours.

Pakistan also beats Turkey in conventional stand off, shock and awe attack capability. We can project conventional firepower through our Medium Range Solid Fuel Shaheen series missiles as well as Babur Cruise Missile systems.

Yes we got a crap load of nukes and some other scary weapons though all of them are 'weapons of deterrent' and would never be used in combat.

 

[Thirdfront]

Before you quote me again, read my post properly.

"defeated numerous times" clearly means they lost many battles. They lost Vietnam, Afghanistan and so forth. But perhaps an Indian uses different dictionary. What happened with UK as US declared independence? Or big Ottoman empire? What shall I say when a nation loses a war? Can't say they were defeated, it's forbidden, right? Might upset an Indian!

Read my post before quoting me again. some thing doesn't happen just because you say so. Neither USSR Army nor US Army lost any war.....

 

[WishLivePak]

You cannot ignore equipment as it builds the fighting capabilities. Turkey beats Pakistan hands down in conventional firepower in Air, Land and Sea.

Pakistan though has better manpower standards, tougher training as we have a standing Army which is utterly combat hardened. Our Pilots have better training again owing to our combat experience, and our intelligence agency is far superior to that of Turkey, even though they more often than not work together. Our tank forces perhaps would have similar-ish capabilities. Turkey beats us in logistical air lift capability and its military is more net centric than ours.

Pakistan also beats Turkey in conventional stand off, shock and awe attack capability. We can project conventional firepower through our Medium Range Solid Fuel Shaheen series missiles as well as Babur Cruise Missile systems.

Yes we got a crap load of nukes and some other scary weapons though all of them are 'weapons of deterrent' and would never be used in combat.

Thanks for your post. Yes, we can't ignore capabilities of Turkish forces.

Reason why I asked such to be ignored was so armies could be compared apples to apples. Perhaps in future when Pakistan has progressed and has an economy similar to that of Turkey, and as a result have near similar equipment (baring nukes, I mentioned in first post but people keep bringing it up), it'd be interesting to see which army is better.

As of right now, I was under impression that Saudi and Turkish army are better because they're more money to spend on military. But history tells us that smaller budgetted militaries have defeated bigger ones. So perhaps if Pak and zturk army had similar equipment, maybe Pak army will be strongest amongst muslim countries due to it having more combat experiences.

Pakistan has taliban problem and an active so called enemy, India. So it trains better and capable in times of war. It may not win, but it may not let India win easily either. Not sure how NATO training holds up to that or Turkish combat experience,

Read my post before quoting me again. some thing doesn't happen just because you say so. Neither USSR Army nor US Army lost any war.....

Still didn't read my post boy?

Don't cherry pick from my post. I mentioned UK and Ottoman empire, where they go?
And sorry, Soviet didn't lose the Afghan war? Why they withdrew then?
And US didn't lose Vietnam war? Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North Vietnamese victory

• Withdrawal of American-led forces

UK didn't lose war against US?

God, it's like arguing with a child and explaining to him unicorns simply don't exist. But the child dreamed of it, how could it not be true!

Save yourself some face and stop ruining my thread any further. There are Indian sections where you can yap all about Pak army and glorious soviet union.

 

[Kompromat]

Thanks for your post. Yes, we can't ignore capabilities of Turkish forces.

Reason why I asked such to be ignored was so armies could be compared apples to apples. Perhaps in future when Pakistan has progressed and has an economy similar to that of Turkey, and as a result have near similar equipment (baring nukes, I mentioned in first post but people keep bringing it up), it'd be interesting to see which army is better.

As of right now, I was under impression that Saudi and Turkish army are better because they're more money to spend on military. But history tells us that smaller budgetted militaries have defeated bigger ones. So perhaps if Pak and zturk army had similar equipment, maybe Pak army will be strongest amongst muslim countries due to it having more combat experiences.

Pakistan has taliban problem and an active so called enemy, India. So it trains better and capable in times of war. It may not win, but it may not let India win easily either. Not sure how NATO training holds up to that or Turkish combat experience,

Turkey has long experience in Counterinsurgency warfare and they have a very good Mountain Warfare school too. Turkish army does not have any tangible experience in large scale armored and infantry warfare post independence.

What lags Pakistan military behind is hardware.

 

[Indos]

Just for study about Indonesian

The following is a list of wars involving Indonesia.

List of wars involving Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[WishLivePak]

Turkey has long experience in Counterinsurgency warfare and they have a very good Mountain Warfare school too. Turkish army does not have any tangible experience in large scale armored and infantry warfare post independence.

What lags Pakistan military behind is hardware.

Ok, so if Pakistan and Turkey had exact same weapons, Pak will win land, naval and air. So we're strongest army in muslim world (when given equal weapons). So i guess we just need to find some oil

 

[Thirdfront]

Thanks for your post. Yes, we can't ignore capabilities of Turkish forces.

Reason why I asked such to be ignored was so armies could be compared apples to apples. Perhaps in future when Pakistan has progressed and has an economy similar to that of Turkey, and as a result have near similar equipment (baring nukes, I mentioned in first post but people keep bringing it up), it'd be interesting to see which army is better.

As of right now, I was under impression that Saudi and Turkish army are better because they're more money to spend on military. But history tells us that smaller budgetted militaries have defeated bigger ones. So perhaps if Pak and zturk army had similar equipment, maybe Pak army will be strongest amongst muslim countries due to it having more combat experiences.

Pakistan has taliban problem and an active so called enemy, India. So it trains better and capable in times of war. It may not win, but it may not let India win easily either. Not sure how NATO training holds up to that or Turkish combat experience,


Still didn't read my post boy?

Don't cherry pick from my post. I mentioned UK and Ottoman empire, where they go?
And sorry, Soviet didn't lose the Afghan war? Why they withdrew then?
And US didn't lose Vietnam war? Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
UK didn't lose war against US?

God, it's like arguing with a child and explaining to him unicorns simply don't exist. But the child dreamed of it, how could it not be true!

Save yourself some face and stop ruining my thread any further. There are Indian sections where you can yap all about Pak army and glorious soviet union.

LOL... Withdrew, not surrender... You got to learn some basic things before joining defense forums......

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan Military is at best just at world war 2 level force , or perhaps marginally some where in operational levels of 60's nation
There is major need of Modernization and training improvements

 

[WishLivePak]

Read my post before quoting me again. some thing doesn't happen just because you say so. Neither USSR Army nor US Army lost any war.....

Sorry, neither US nor Soviet army have been defeated..... Sure they lost wars

look up how hannibal never lost a battle but lost a war...

Make up your mind too. Now pack your bags and of you go to Indian Defence Forum

LOL... Withdrew, not surrender... You got to learn some basic things before joining defense forums......

Save yourself some face

Boy, was I wrong.. You've no face!

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan Military is at best just at world war 2 level force , or perhaps marginally some where in operational levels of 60's nation
There is major need of Modernization and training improvements

That is just plain wrong.

 

[WishLivePak]

LOL... Withdrew, not surrender... You got to learn some basic things before joining defense forums......

And just for the luls, when army has lost, it withdraws. When Pak army lost war vs India, it withdrew its army. Doesn't leave it there to be slaughtered. US army lost 50k+ soldiers in Vietnam. You expect them to stay until US surrenders to Vietnam?

Do you understand English?

That is just plain wrong.

Yes, Pak army is much better than WW2 and the 60s. The F16s are rather more advanced than that. Remember, compare apples to apples. Sure it wasn't as strong as the US then, they had B2s, U2s and what not during the time frame. But Pak also had much more advance weapons for then time, it wasn't in such troublesome economy. It defeated IAF. Now it can't any longer.

For example, PAF used to be able to buy off the shelves F16s, but now it buys used. Economy is key to military. Soviets were very strong with their MiG overs Vietnam, but bad economy, their jets lag far behind the US. Their ACs, subs and numerous other things.

TL/DR, Pak army is much better than the 60s. To say it still stands in 60s means there hasn't been any improvement, as during 65, PAF did conquer the skies.