Is PAA going for 11-ton ATAK-II with Ukrainian engines?

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

they shouldn't expect any goodwill from Pakistan

The US picked India over Pakistan years ago. Pakistan's AH-1Z were blocked.

 

[Dalit]

The US picked India over Pakistan years ago. Pakistan's AH-1Z were blocked.

We haven't forgotten. We haven't forgotten many things when it comes to the USA.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

We haven't forgotten. We haven't forgotten many things when it comes to the USA.

They also blocked F-16 C/D. To date Pakistan only has 12 F-16C and 6 F-16D. And that was from 2010 before the US picked India over Pakistan.

 

[Dalit]

They also blocked F-16 C/D. To date Pakistan only has 12 F-16C and 6 F-16D. And that was from 2010 before the US picked India over Pakistan.

These are the same Americans that came crawling back to hold negotiations with the Taliban. Remember how all Taliban were supposed to be bad and talks were never going to happen? We know these Americans inside out.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Short answer is a Big no
because the helicopter doesnt even exist yet. there is no physical example present with any testing.
even the Turkish army has not adapted it or even chosen it.
the concept is still evolving.

when I saw the title of the thread some time ago even without clicking I knew its a "wish thread" with a clickbait by my Pakistani friend. if the title was "should PAA go for 11 Ton Atak with xyz?" or
"Does" 11- Ton ATAK II with Ukrainian engine fit the PAA operational needs?

all that is still relative because there has to be a real example flying first. tested for years and then one can form an opinion.

reminds me of a song "wake me up when September ends"...
(September here being American Embargo on Turkey..)
but hey we are talking about Ukrainian engine here where does American ban comes in?
Answer is, how many modifications will be needed to substitute all American sanctions prone components and accommodate a non western engine of a Russian design philosophy with unknown quality and performance?

Early birds get the worm....

Imagination is more important than knowledge....

Newton's Theory of Induction: if a mathematical relation is true for n=1,2,3 etc. then it's true for n=r. Turkey has operationalized T-129 and working at an advanced stage for T-629, so they'll come up with T-929 by HIS PERMISSION...

Every word from the Turkish top bosses in the defense technology carries weight for it cuts through the psyche of her nemesis. Bluffing has a ZERO leverage or scope here.....

 

[airmarshal]

Will we really need gunship helicopters in lets say 15 years? The way the drone technology is evolving, it looks very unlikely.

Just look at recent wars in Libya and Armenia. Pakistan will be better off using Turkish credit line for helicopters and use it to buy their drones.

 

[Signalian]

btw Pakistan should buy 100% İranian Attack Helicopter

Iran produces spin offs or knock offs of existing frames and designs. Engines could be American or British AFAIK. Even with an extensive heli indudtry, Iran bought R-44 training helis from USA in past few years.

Will we really need gunship helicopters in lets say 15 years? The way the drone technology is evolving, it looks very unlikely.

Payload capacity, versatile weapon carrying capability and the requirement of a rotary Vs winged platform.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Short answer is a Big no
because the helicopter doesnt even exist yet. there is no physical example present with any testing.
even the Turkish army has not adapted it or even chosen it.
the concept is still evolving.

when I saw the title of the thread some time ago even without clicking I knew its a "wish thread" with a clickbait by my Pakistani friend. if the title was "should PAA go for 11 Ton Atak with xyz?" or
"Does" 11- Ton ATAK II with Ukrainian engine fit the PAA operational needs?

all that is still relative because there has to be a real example flying first. tested for years and then one can form an opinion.

reminds me of a song "wake me up when September ends"...
(September here being American Embargo on Turkey..)
but hey we are talking about Ukrainian engine here where does American ban comes in?
Answer is, how many modifications will be needed to substitute all American sanctions prone components and accommodate a non western engine of a Russian design philosophy with unknown quality and performance?

I think it depends.

There's no existing design for the PN's Jinnah-class frigate program, or for that matter the LRMPA.

If we're in a situation where we can't buy an existing design for a certain type of platform (in the case of the ATAK-2, a heavyweight attack helicopter), the PAA may take a page from the PN's playbook and consider a new program.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I think it depends.

There's no existing design for the PN's Jinnah-class frigate program, or for that matter the LRMPA.

If we're in a situation where we can't buy an existing design for a certain type of platform (in the case of the ATAK-2, a heavyweight attack helicopter), the PAA may take a page from the PN's playbook and consider a new program.

correct observation by you, many thanks.

since you used the conditional, PAA "may" follow PN example.
my objection is clickbait misleading titles suggesting the subject is about an existing news item where something has already happened in the form of official statement or a signed agreement. as of something jas already happened and OP will link the external news or video and make his analysis.

I guess then a thread that "Is israel/ India going to buy American F36 king snake 5 generation minus plane" is justified too.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

correct observation by you, many thanks.

since you used the conditional, PAA "may" follow PN example.
my objection is clickbait misleading titles suggesting the subject is about an existing news item where something has already happened in the form of official statement or a signed agreement. as of something jas already happened and OP will link the external news or video and make his analysis.

I guess then a thread that "Is israel/ India going to buy American F36 king snake 5 generation minus plane" is justified too.

I agree, but I think the OP asked a question in their title and simply offered an opinion.

IMO this is a legit discussion because Pakistan is reaching a point where the next-gen stuff is either mostly unavailable, still going through development, or brand new.

If the PAA wants heavy attack helicopters, then realistically, it doesn't have any option except to wait on the Turks or Chinese.

In both cases, we're talking about programs that are under development.

Likewise, even if the PAF totally scraps AZM and says, "our NGFA will be off-the-shelf," that solution would likely be in development today (e.g., in China), and when available, a brand new design.

The cost of becoming a militarily strong power (especially with limited funds and suppliers) is that we have to deal with stuff that's under development, untested, etc.

So, if the PAA isn't going to seriously consider new projects, then it speaks to an antiquated or misplaced procurement policy.

This might explain why it went with the LY-80 -- i.e., an older SARH-based SAM -- instead of ARM-based SAMs, which other countries are doing, for example.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Imagine if PA had cooperated with Denel for a high altitude Rooivalk 2 with non-Western engines many years ago.

Missed opportunities unfortunately

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Imagine if PA had cooperated with Denel for a high altitude Rooivalk 2 with non-Western engines many years ago.

Missed opportunities unfortunately

We don't have money for that bro, only money for repaying our leaders' debts and installments for US or Chinese weapons.

 

[Philip the Arab]

We don't have money for that bro, only money for repaying our leaders' debts and installments for US or Chinese weapons.

Good point, it would have required millions of dollars when Pakistan had no money. It really sucks, PA cant even get a damn helicopter that is sufficient.

 

[Xone]

policies are made and impemented by the stronger, rather forced upon the weaks.
If Pakistan does want the diffrent, It has to be strong and resouceful. otherwise no outcome of complain the cheet and deceipt or leave in middle.
what we are to confront, is to either obey or be obliterated, or atleast face the music.
we need to turn the table to get out of this fiasco.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Imagine if PA had cooperated with Denel for a high altitude Rooivalk 2 with non-Western engines many years ago.

Missed opportunities unfortunately

in hindsight there are many missed opportunities and mistakes.