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Is LCA Programme finally dead?

Reality is a foreign concept to you?

India has just had it's lowest growth rate in 50 years. Indian Navy already cutting back on major programmes. No order for 83MK1A this year despite every Bahkt on this forum claiming it was "definately" being signed.
Rafales were now ordered 4 years ago, no follow on order when Indian economy was in a much better position back than so you can pretty much forget any new order for next 2-3 years.

While all this is happening with lots Indian media reports and shouting and "approvals" , "trials" , "Acceptances", " signings" etc Nothing ever moves forward.

Than very quietly PAF puts up 17 PAC Produced Thunders from 2020 in one photo and announces Block III production. All without any talk throughout the year. In one event PAF blew away myth of LCA being any serious contender to JF-17.

In a month or so first JF-17 Block III will role out. MK1A contract will still not be signed. That is not my opinion, this is the actual reality of things.....

Please don't need to compare with Jf 17 and block 3 because is is being developed by China. If they can develop a 5th gen fighter then it is nothing for them.

They have already developed better aircrafts - j10, j11, j 20 etc.

Assembling is doing by India by decades. Even more then 20 Su mki has assembled by india during a year so I don't find any proud or something!
....
About LCA, it has opened the door for India. Now india can plan and develop new aircrafts HAL Tejas Mk2 and more! It will not take much time..

China is just not started and developed aircrafts in a decade. They have done hard work in past 50 years and now, slowly they are being expertise.

missiles can never equdate a bomber, in terms of flexibility, tactically and strategically.

Might you are correct but priority is for fighter aircrafts but not Bomber. Once we will have sufficient number of aircrafts then might go for bombers.
 
Please don't need to compare with Jf 17 and block 3 because is is being developed by China. If they can develop a 5th gen fighter then it is nothing for them.

They have already developed better aircrafts - j10, j11, j 20 etc.

Assembling is doing by India by decades. Even more then 20 Su mki has assembled by india during a year so I don't find any proud or something!
....
About LCA, it has opened the door for India. Now india can plan and develop new aircrafts HAL Tejas Mk2 and more! It will not take much time..

China is just not started and developed aircrafts in a decade. They have done hard work in past 50 years and now, slowly they are being expertise.



Might you are correct but priority is for fighter aircrafts but not Bomber. Once we will have sufficient number of aircrafts then might go for bombers.

Stick with LCA chat, not how great China is, we all know that!

Yes, now after LCA MK1 failure, you will pitch your hopes on LCA MK2 which you claim "will not take much time", of course we have heard those words for last 20 years on the internet from Indians. Good, for next 20 years I look forward to monthly updates on LCA MK2 "progress", maybe your grandchildren and my grandchildren will be debating it's induction date nearer the time......
 
Stick with LCA chat, not how great China is, we all know that!

Yes, now after LCA MK1 failure, you will pitch your hopes on LCA MK2 which you claim "will not take much time", of course we have heard those words for last 20 years on the internet from Indians. Good, for next 20 years I look forward to monthly updates on LCA MK2 "progress", maybe your grandchildren and my grandchildren will be debating it's induction date nearer the time......

Who said that it is a failure?

HAL Tejas MK1 is same as JF 17 block 2, And HAL Tejas Mk1a will be as same as JF 17 block 3.

But, IAF requirements is just different compare to PAF.

Example- China does not need to induct JF 17 aircraft because they have better aircrafts as per their requirements.

The same goes to IAF, IAF wants more capable fighter then comparison with HAL Tejas Mk1a or JF 17 block 3 (Example).

IAF requirements are just similar to Chinese one!

We are getting greater threat from china because they are having much better aircrafts. So IAF is also looking more capable fighter planes which can secure our borders.

PAF doctrine is based only on IAF but IAF doctrine is based on China and PAF.
 
Who said that it is a failure?

HAL Tejas MK1 is same as JF 17 block 2, And HAL Tejas Mk1a will be as same as JF 17 block 3.

But, IAF requirements is just different compare to PAF.

Example- China does not need to induct JF 17 aircraft because they have better aircrafts as per their requirements.

The same goes to IAF, IAF wants more capable fighter then comparison with HAL Tejas Mk1a or JF 17 block 3 (Example).

IAF requirements are just similar to Chinese one!

We are getting greater threat from china because they are having much better aircrafts. So IAF is also looking more capable fighter planes which can secure our borders.

PAF doctrine is based only on IAF but IAF doctrine is based on China and PAF.


The very objective of the LCA was to deliver an affordable replacement to the MIG-21 in IAF service, cheaply and in large numbers. Not even one full FOC squadron is in IAF service and shockingly MIG-21s are still due to remain in service up to 2022.

The JF-17 was initiated to replace F-7s in PAF service. 8 Squadrons are now in service with PAF. Every F-7 squadron has now retired with only 2 F-7PG squadrons (purchased in 1990s) remaining.

If MK1A LCA is equal to the Block III this in itself has no chance of catching up. First Block III prototype has flown and production started at Kamra. LCA MK1A contract not even signed or prototype not flown.

B**ls*it your way out of those facts.
 
The very objective of the LCA was to deliver an affordable replacement to the MIG-21 in IAF service, cheaply and in large numbers. Not even one full FOC squadron is in IAF service and shockingly MIG-21s are still due to remain in service up to 2022.

The JF-17 was initiated to replace F-7s in PAF service. 8 Squadrons are now in service with PAF. Every F-7 squadron has now retired with only 2 F-7PG squadrons (purchased in 1990s) remaining.

If MK1A LCA is equal to the Block III this in itself has no chance of catching up. First Block III prototype has flown and production started at Kamra. LCA MK1A contract not even signed or prototype not flown.

B**ls*it your way out of those facts.

Again, it is all about requirements. India wanted to replaced but they were not in hurray unlike PAF. PAF was inducted the even Jf 17 block1.

Here, IAF was not ready to do so! Even They are not ready with HAL Tejas mk1 even it is having similar capabilities as Jf 17 block 2.

Because now ground situation is totally different compare to last decades. Now, HAL Tejas Mk1a will be equipped with AA missiles - 160 KM range for interceptor role only.

If it was only about PAF then IAF would be ready to induct HAL tejas Mk1 in a large number but the reality is that it is just not about PAF.

What if any conflict will happen with China.... since china is having much better aircrafts so HAL Tejas Mk1 will not be good enough. So, IAF is looking more capable HAL Tejas Mk1a to replace our existing Interceptor fighters.

It is totally about requirement's! Nothing more....
 
Again, it is all about requirements. India wanted to replaced but they were not in hurray unlike PAF. PAF was inducted the even Jf 17 block1.

Here, IAF was not ready to do so! Even They are not ready with HAL Tejas mk1 even it is having similar capabilities as Jf 17 block 2.

Because now ground situation is totally different compare to last decades. Now, HAL Tejas Mk1a will be equipped with AA missiles - 160 KM range for interceptor role only.

If it was only about PAF then IAF would be ready to induct HAL tejas Mk1 in a large number but the reality is that it is just not about PAF.

What if any conflict will happen with China.... since china is having much better aircrafts so HAL Tejas Mk1 will not be good enough. So, IAF is looking more capable HAL Tejas Mk1a to replace our existing Interceptor fighters.

It is totally about requirement's! Nothing more....


MK1 is not inducted and PAF inducted JF-17 because it was "in a hurry"!? This is the latest excuse?

IAF squadrons down to 30, MIG-21 still flying but IAF not "in a hurry"!?

Block II JF-17 with BVR, air refuelling, internal gun, PGM missiles (fired at Indian bases) and shoot down of Iranian drone, exercised at NATO level in Turkey, in service with Nigeria and Myanmar, is the same as LCA MK1 which is not even in FOC service with one unit?

Are you sure you want to have this debate publicly with me?
 
MK1 is not inducted and PAF inducted JF-17 because it was "in a hurry"!? This is the latest excuse?

IAF squadrons down to 30, MIG-21 still flying but IAF not "in a hurry"!?

Block II JF-17 with BVR, air refuelling, internal gun, PGM missiles (fired at Indian bases) and shoot down of Iranian drone, exercised at NATO level in Turkey, in service with Nigeria and Myanmar, is the same as LCA MK1 which is not even in FOC service with one unit?

Are you sure you want to have this debate publicly with me?

Even, Mig 21 shoot down a Breguet Atlantic (sad incident), does this qualify Mig 21 is a good aircraft to use in 21st century?

Block II JF-17 with BVR, air refuelling, internal gun, PGM missiles (fired at Indian bases) and shoot down of Iranian drone, exercised at NATO level in Turkey, in service with Nigeria and Myanmar, is the same as LCA MK1 which is not even in FOC service with one unit?

Still lacking helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system and other few.

HAL TejasMK1 (FOC) is also having helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system, BVR, air refueling, internal gun, PGM missiles etc.

Yes, no doubt that there was delayed but still all depends on your requirements.

IAF requirement is just different compare to PAF. IAF might need to deal with China which are having much better aircrafts. IAF defense doctrine is and will be accordingly.

Since, China is having much better aircrafts.... IAF should not waste money and wait for much better aircraft HAL Tejas MK1a with AESA, AA Missile range -160 KM for interceptor role.
 
Even, Mig 21 shoot down a Breguet Atlantic (sad incident), does this qualify Mig 21 is a good aircraft to use in 21st century?

Block II JF-17 with BVR, air refuelling, internal gun, PGM missiles (fired at Indian bases) and shoot down of Iranian drone, exercised at NATO level in Turkey, in service with Nigeria and Myanmar, is the same as LCA MK1 which is not even in FOC service with one unit?

Still lacking helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system and other few.

HAL TejasMK1 (FOC) is also having helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system, BVR, air refueling, internal gun, PGM missiles etc.

Yes, no doubt that there was delayed but still all depends on your requirements.

IAF requirement is just different compare to PAF. IAF might need to deal with China which are having much better aircrafts. IAF defense doctrine is and will be accordingly.

Since, China is having much better aircrafts.... IAF should not waste money and wait for much better aircraft HAL Tejas MK1a with AESA, AA Missile range -160 KM for interceptor role.

Please enough of bullshit on here now.

LCA is not cleared for BVR operations or in flight operations yet. It is not even cleared for operational full service. No point saying you have helmet mounted sight on a plane you will not clear for full combat. No internal gun is cleared for the plane.

Just because you are losing this argument it gives you no right to start lying in order to make a point. This is not an Indian Fake news channel
 
Please enough of bullshit on here now.

LCA is not cleared for BVR operations or in flight operations yet. It is not even cleared for operational full service. No point saying you have helmet mounted sight on a plane you will not clear for full combat. No internal gun is cleared for the plane.

Just because you are losing this argument it gives you no right to start lying in order to make a point. This is not an Indian Fake news channel

LCA is not cleared for BVR operations or in flight operations yet. It is not even cleared for operational full service. No point saying you have helmet mounted sight on a plane you will not clear for full combat. No internal gun is cleared for the plane.

Being a denial mode! better to please research and come for discussion. Thank you!

1609412243536.png

 
So at a time when Indian trolls were making excuse about pandemic and its effect on Tejas, Pakistan rolled out 14 Bravos. lol
 
Please don't need to compare with Jf 17 and block 3 because is is being developed by China. If they can develop a 5th gen fighter then it is nothing for them.

They have already developed better aircrafts - j10, j11, j 20 etc.

Assembling is doing by India by decades. Even more then 20 Su mki has assembled by india during a year so I don't find any proud or something!
....
About LCA, it has opened the door for India. Now india can plan and develop new aircrafts HAL Tejas Mk2 and more! It will not take much time..

China is just not started and developed aircrafts in a decade. They have done hard work in past 50 years and now, slowly they are being expertise.



Might you are correct but priority is for fighter aircrafts but not Bomber. Once we will have sufficient number of aircrafts then might go for bombers.
MK1
Orca
MK2
MK1A lol .... when you can't even manufacture 8 aircraft per year then you should probably stop making fighter aircraft and start purchasing from others why waste time in 1 year, HAL had 1 Year to make 8 aircraft they could only make 4?? major components from foreign countries still you fail to assemble 8 aircraft?? And yet you think of developing MK1A MK2 when you can't even make 8 basic MK1 tejas? Mark my words when you sign the contract for MK1A we will be done with block 3 production of 50 aircraft ... Thunder was always meant to be a JV Pakistan had China by it's side you now have US Israel France and Russia still nothing much is being done......
 
Even, Mig 21 shoot down a Breguet Atlantic (sad incident), does this qualify Mig 21 is a good aircraft to use in 21st century?

Block II JF-17 with BVR, air refuelling, internal gun, PGM missiles (fired at Indian bases) and shoot down of Iranian drone, exercised at NATO level in Turkey, in service with Nigeria and Myanmar, is the same as LCA MK1 which is not even in FOC service with one unit?

Still lacking helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system and other few.

HAL TejasMK1 (FOC) is also having helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system, BVR, air refueling, internal gun, PGM missiles etc.

Yes, no doubt that there was delayed but still all depends on your requirements.

IAF requirement is just different compare to PAF. IAF might need to deal with China which are having much better aircrafts. IAF defense doctrine is and will be accordingly.

Since, China is having much better aircrafts.... IAF should not waste money and wait for much better aircraft HAL Tejas MK1a with AESA, AA Missile range -160 KM for interceptor role.

I'm not aware as to the current level of induction of LCA in the IAF, what you are stating is something that is somewhat questionable. See, when I take a look at the statement that the IAF's requirement is quite different so on and so forth, I am reminded that this project was launched in the mid 1980's. The first flight was around 2000-01 and It's been almost 4 decades since its inception and two decades almost since its first flight and the emerging project has yet to satisfy the requirements it was launched to fulfill?

If the requirements have been revised and it is trying to meet the revised requirements then that makes sense -- to a layman at least
. Coming from a background of business and marketing, the literal first step in the whole process is the identification of needs/wants of the consumer for which you are building the product. Everything else follows, and if a company essentially goes back to step # 1 after delivering a workable product 2 decades prior, something seriously wrong is happening.
By extension, you can even call in to question the decision making of those in power, for they weren't able to correctly project what they would be facing in the future. The project has costed the Indian nation over a billion dollars already from what I hear and the fact that the argument being used to save face is that it is the requirements that are being constantly revised -- then for those of us with a bit of info in business and marketing would deem it anything but a face save.
 
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LCA is not cleared for BVR operations or in flight operations yet. It is not even cleared for operational full service. No point saying you have helmet mounted sight on a plane you will not clear for full combat. No internal gun is cleared for the plane.

Being a denial mode! better to please research and come for discussion. Thank you!

View attachment 701830


Read your own article. It mentions one FOC plane. As I mentioned (about 20 times now), IAF does not have one full FOC squadron. Both squadrons are not only massivley under strength but have IOC versions and 2 FOC versions. It's a joke pretending otherwise.

Not a single active unit with full capability, not even BVR or internal guns.
 
I'm not aware as to the current level of induction of LCA in the IAF, what you are stating is something that is somewhat questionable. See, when I take a look at the statement that the IAF's requirement is quite different so on and so forth, I am reminded that this project was launched in the mid 1980's. The first flight was around 2000-01 and It's been almost 4 decades since its inception and two decades almost since its first flight and the emerging project has yet to satisfy the requirements it was launched to fulfill?

If the requirements have been revised and it is trying to meet the revised requirements then that makes sense -- to a layman at least
. Coming from a background of business and marketing, the literal first step in the whole process is the identification of needs/wants of the consumer for which you are building the product. Everything else follows, and if a company essentially goes back to step # 1 after delivering a workable product 2 decades prior, something seriously wrong is happening.
By extension, you can even call in to question the decision making of those in power, for they weren't able to correctly project what they would be facing in the future. The project has costed the Indian nation over a billion dollars already from what I hear and the fact that the argument being used to save face is that it is the requirements that are being constantly revised -- then for those of us with a bit of info in business and marketing would deem it anything but a face save.

Sir, I was replying to trolls only. If you asked my honest opinion then I have different!

HAL was not having experience, qualification and infrastructure to jump from 2nd gen fighter (HAL Ajeet) to 4th generation. Even they were not designed and developed any aircraft including major and critical parts. These all processes took much time and also delayed the project.

During the period, technologies get change on a regular basis. What are the benefits if you are developing a outdated aircraft at the time others are having latest one?

Again to me! it is all about requirements. North Korea is still flying mig 19? However, The world is moving to 5th and 6th generations fighter aircrafts.

Since HAL and India was not capable enough to develop a aircraft in 1980s, 1990s and 2000s.. HAL tejas is provided a opportunity to step up infrastructure and Aero and aviation Industry in India.

Moreover, I am agreed that is is costed the Indian nation over a billion dollars but we have able to crossed the milestone and setup the infrastructure.

I would be agreed that HAL Tejas MK1 is a failure if it was outdated compare to Jf17 block 2. but, knowing the fact that technologics "Jf17 block 2 does not give advantage over to HAL Tejas MK1". Therefore, I Can not count as failure.

JF 17 is having advantage of production, deployment and flying experience.

Now, If I look at development then clearly found that PAF was in hurray to induct including JF17 block 1 because PAF was having only F16 (A decent and capable 4th gen aircraft) .

However, IAF was not in hurray to induct at the same time because IAF was having Su 30 mki, Mirage 2000 and Mig 29.

Also, there is no doubt that there were many technical challenges and it caused the more delay.

Looking to positive sides after 3 decades:
1. We will have HAL Tejas MK1a (A decent fighter to deal with any threat in 21st century as interceptor role in south Aisa).
2. Infrastructure, Aero and aviation Industry in India
3. years of experience for developing and testing a fighter aircraft

Now expected that next upcoming fighters will not take time to develop. If they will still take longer time to develop then it will be count a complete failure and waste of 30 years.
 
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Sir, I was replying to trolls only. If you asked my honest opinion then I have different!

HAL was not having experience, qualification and infrastructure to jump from 2nd gen fighter (HAL Ajeet) to 4th generation. Even they were not designed and developed any aircraft including major and critical parts. These all processes took much time and also delayed the project.

During the period, technologies get change on a regular basis. What are the benefits if you are developing a outdated aircraft at the time others are having latest one?

Again to me! it is all about requirements. North Korea is still flying mig 19? However, The world is moving to 5th and 6th generations fighter aircrafts.

Since HAL and India was not capable enough to develop a aircraft in 1980s, 1990s and 2000s.. HAL tejas is provided a opportunity to step up infrastructure and Aero and aviation Industry in India.

Moreover, I am agreed that is is costed the Indian nation over a billion dollars but we have able to crossed the milestone and setup the infrastructure.

I would be agreed that HAL Tejas MK1 is a failure if it was outdated compare to Jf17 block 2. but, knowing the fact that technologics "Jf17 block 2 does not give advantage over to HAL Tejas MK1". Therefore, I Can not count as failure.

JF 17 is having advantage of production, deployment and flying experience.

Now, If I look at development then clearly found that PAF was in hurray to induct including JF17 block 1 because PAF was having only F16 (A decent and capable 4th gen aircraft) .

However, IAF was not in hurray to induct at the same time because IAF was having Su 30 mki, Mirage 2000 and Mig 29.

Also, there is no doubt that there were many technical challenges and it caused the more delay.

Looking to positive sides after 3 decades:
1. We will have HAL Tejas MK1a (A decent fighter to deal with any threat in 21st century as interceptor role in south Aisa).
2. Infrastructure, Aero and aviation Industry in India
3. years of experience for developing and testing a fighter aircraft

Now expected that next upcoming fighters will not take time to develop. If they will still take longer time to develop then it will be count a complete failure and waste of 30 years.

BS again. IAF has been repeatedly warning about declining squadron numbers for last 2 decades. They have repeatedly said they need new planes. "Not in a hurry" is your sorry excuse for LCA failing
 

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