Is Kashmir a lost case?

[mastaan]

@mastaan
ideas not crap

Tum PhD waale waise hi bahut pade likhe hote ho and the expectations are too high . BTW, opinions are opinions... why'd you search for logic there

 

[Ayush]

Well, at least you can't blame me for that... I am a citizen of J&K state and commenting on my state... And, anyways, the whole idea of is to debate and exchange opinions... ain't it?

oh,so you and @Armstrong are fellow kashmiris.

 

[mastaan]

oh,so you and @Armstrong are fellow kashmiris.

am not a Kashmiri, but i belong to J&K...

 

[rubyjackass]

No permission to post in kashmir section. So posting it here. Kindly move to appropriate section if found inappropriate.
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Saeed Qureshi

Sunday, March 03, 2013 - The population of Kashmir in both parts under India and Pakistan is around 16 million. Out of this 12.5 million live in the Indian part of Jammu and Kashmir and the remaining 3 million in the Azad Kashmir part of Pakistan. With the phased addition of 700,000 Indian security forces the population in the Indian part of Kashmir has soared to over 13 million thus changing the demographics. Such a colossal presence of army means that India does not trust the local Kashmiri Muslim population. It means that for every 20 citizens there was one Indian soldier. There are no confirmed reports that the army officials are entering into matrimonial relations with the local girls. But with the army camps all over, the contacts between the local population and the army rank and file cannot be ruled out. The Indian army is free to arrest, kill or incarcerate any person or group suspicious of being anti India militant or covertly to overtly involve against India in a liberation struggle. There have been unmarked graves that are alleged to be the insurgents killed by the Indian army and buried there. But on the positive side Indian army has engaged itself in education projects and provision of social services to win the sympathies of Kashmiris and to mitigate the anti-Indian sentiment.

Pakistan and India have fought four wars over Kashmir but none has been conclusive in favor of either by way of total invasion or conquest of Kashmir. These wars were fought in 1947, 1965, 1971 and 1999(Kargil). The Kashmir territory is occupied by three regional countries. India possesses 39000 sq miles, Pakistan 33000 sq miles and China occupies 14500 sq. miles. Pakistan controls the North West region that includes northern areas and Azad Kashmir. India occupies the central and southern portion of Jammu, Kashmir valley and Laddakh. The areas under Chinese sway are the northeastern tracts, Trans Karakorum and Aksai Chin. In addition, major portion of Siachen glacier including Saltoro ridge passes are held by India. The lower portions of Saltoro Ridge are under the control of Pakistan.

Following the initial skirmishes between India and Pakistan, during 1947-1948, a ceasefire was agreed upon between the two belligerents under the UN auspices (resolution 47). The resolution called for holding a plebiscite for eliciting the opinion of the Kashmiris whether they would opt to join Pakistan or India. However, such a plebiscite has never been conducted. The ongoing times are not conducive or fruitful for a conventional wars in which one would subdue the other by sword or through better fighting skills. Nor is it a time for the lion hearted to prevail because even a meek or faint-hearted can shoot others from a hidden location. As such neither country can attain a military victory unless one of these has superior weaponry and larger force. In this case it is India that enjoys both these upper edges. Traditionally Pakistan has seldom proven to be a matching fighting force, though its military have fought well in 1965. In the initial stages after the partition there was reportedly an offer from India to swap Hyderabad Deccan with Kashmir Valley. But this offer was spurned by the then Pakistani leadership. India thereafter annexed the princely state of Hyderabad by a military operation. Thus an invaluable option for resolving the Kashmir dispute was wasted by Pakistan. India’s use of force for annexation of Hyderabad carried the argument that since it was a state with majority Hindu population, India had a right to forcibly annex it. But paradoxically this formula was set aside in the case of Kashmir where Muslims are in majority.

Even if by some miracle, Pakistan wins the Kashmir case in the international court, India would never relinquish her hold over that enchanting and strategically crucial valley. Nor would India care to ever hold a plebiscite in Kashmir fully mindful that such step would go in favor of Pakistan. Israel is one example in such a scenario which occupies the Palestinian territories by brazen violation of rule set out by the UNO charter. Yet Israel cannot be forcibly pushed out by the rebellious Palestinians or by dint of international opinion. Pakistan as such should treat Kashmir as a closed or lost case.

—The writer is a senior journalist and a former diplomat.


Is Kashmir a lost case?

Is this the IQ level of a senior journalist and former diplomat?!! He is adding the Indian army men to the population of Kashmir and then wondering whether they interact with the local girls. He conveniently forgets the constitutional protection enjoyed by Jammu and Kashmir in India. All Pakistanis do, even separatists do. I mean it(Article 370 of Indian constitution) keeps staring at them as the difference between what would happen to their state if they join Pakistan or become separate. All the 'identity' or 'separateness' they enjoy now will be gone in a decade with immigrants from Pakistan.

And the author is weak in history too. Where is his proof that India was about to give away Hyderabad state for Kashmir? The general policy of letting the rulers of princely states decide which country(India or Pakistan) to join was Muslim League's. Not the Congress'. The reason India quickly invaded the Hyderabad state was the internal and external security nightmare that would occur if there are such islands of Pakistans left in the heart of India. This was clear from the way Sardar Patel operated. If the writer is going to making seemingly non-sensical statements like 'India was willing to give up Hyderabad for Kashmir', then he better have solid proof.

Only the ideological geniuses of Pakistan could champion a country with its eastern and western wings so far apart. The Islamists never had the sense of practicality and they will never get it. They are just blind with religion. Indian leaders understood that they were planning to build a nation and so they did not ask for, say, the then NWFP even though the province had Congress government with solid popular support.

If India was planning to get J&K all along(for example read Gurdaspur district demarcation controversy, probably the first conspiracy theory to be spouted in Pakistan which comes just before such theories as the story of 'Muslim-hater Dogra king' of J&K, the theory of atheism of NWFP leaders(a theory with a hint of support from the Quaid himself) like Badshah Khan), India could have obtusely demanded that NWFP be included into India like Pakistan wanted Bengal which was thousands of miles away. So an India planner could have easily preserved connectivity to NWFP when J&K comes to India's fold.

But I agree with the last line. Pakistan should give up of Kashmir. India should make sure Pakistan does that, for the sake of both countries. And the window opens after Geelani dies and before Pakistan recovers from the current madness. There should not be any overtures of peace, giving the impression of weakness or hope for some naive Pakistanis. Just take the Kashmiris on board, even if it means only secularists are part of the solution. Leave the Islamists to the cold or J&K will be another Sharia ruled agency.

 

[Jayanta]

Well, if the militaries of both nations are those dictating terms.. then what use are peoples?

Do not know about Pakistan...but one thing is for sure Indian army is not dictating terms in any area of India. And its a Gorkha speaking for his experience....

 

[livingdead]

Do not know about Pakistan...but one thing is for sure Indian army is not dictating terms in any area of India. And its a Gorkha speaking for his experience....

except J&K and some areas in NE...

 

[Jayanta]

except J&K and some areas in NE...

Dear Hindu guy....although I am a Nepali speaking...from Bhutan...my schooling has been in Sainik School, Goalpara Assam. After which i joined NDA and then to the Gorkha regiment....I was never posted in J&K...but as far as NE is concerned...nothing is dictated by Indian Army.....Thanks to Congress and illegal immigrants Assam is turn into another J&K soon. People hate AFSPA not because of the act itself...but what the Punjab regiment did to the women exploiting the act...rest...I do not want to a spill out. I have been to every corner of NE....they are some of the most simple clean hearted and generous people....but when people mess with them they know how to fight back that too with a bang....if any Army regiment can take on the Gorkhas...it would be the Naga regiment.

 

[livingdead]

Dear Hindu guy....although I am a Nepali speaking...from Bhutan...my schooling has been in Sainik School, Goalpara Assam. After which i joined NDA and then to the Gorkha regiment....I was never posted in J&K...but as far as NE is concerned...nothing is dictated by Indian Army.....Thanks to Congress and illegal immigrants Assam is turn into another J&K soon. People hate AFSPA not because of the act itself...but what the Punjab regiment did to their women...rest...I do not want to a spill out.

if you are a serving officer with IA, you should be a bit discreet...

 

[Jayanta]

if you are a serving officer with IA, you should be a bit discreet...

I am not serving any more....

 

[livingdead]

I am not serving any more....

ah ok.. np then..
are you in touch with anybody from royal gurkha here? just curious.. you dont need to reply..

 

[rubyjackass]

Abhi do minute pehle mene socha tha kashmir issue per asignment bnaon gi

Ab kaam ho gaya naa. Copy paste the article in the opening post.

 

[longewala]

i find the idea of muslim or hindu majority regions joining Pakistan or India respectively, automatically, a bit strange.

For one thing, it is possible for people to decide otherwise - I believe NWFP wanted to join India.

Secondly, it ignores the big, glaring difference between "hindu majority" India and "muslim majority" pakistan. India continues to have a sizeable muslim (and christian, sikh, jew, parsi) population who are not persecuted for being non-Hindu. Whereas Pakistan wiped out, one by one, everyone who was not "pure".

The Pakistani "formula" assumes India and Pakistan are mirror images. And J&K demonstrates that is false. In hindu-majority Jammu, muslims are safe. Muslim-majority Kashmir is today 100% muslim-only after the genocide of the hindus by the same muslims who so loudly shout about "human rights"

And that is the difference between Hyderabad, where muslim and hindu are equal and there is rule of law, versus Kashmir where the Pakistani "freedom fighter" proved in 1948, with their conduct, that they are unfit to govern any place that has minorities.

 

[Jayanta]

ah ok.. np then..
are you in touch with anybody from royal gurkha? just curious.. you dont need to reply..

Voluntarily retired 2010...no contact with anybody from my regiment or other.

 

[livingdead]

Voluntarily retired 2010...no contact with anybody from my regiment or other.

no i meant the gurkha regiment here.. wanted to know if there is any difference in treatment..

 

[Jayanta]

no i meant the gurkha regiment here.. wanted to know if there is any difference in treatment..

Well dunno much of the British units....I am not with the Army any more...neither do I know anybody as they recruit them directly from Nepal...Although my dad is Nepali...he settled in Bhutan. Now I am a student...pursuing PhD at Imperial...I think people won't appreciate personal conversation...in case you want to know more please add me as a friend and send message there.