He was implying that Sindhis are "Ghadar" because Bilawal threatened the separation of the State. Just reminding him that Altaf said the exact same thing, should we consider Urdu speakers Ghadar as well? Obviously not.
He can't be allowed to commit the exact same sin while blaming it on the rest and then act innocent.
They should. I am not arguing whether the election of PPP, PMLN, MQM or any other party, including PTI, is rightful or not. I know them all to be the exact same. Read my above comment for
@Blacklight.
Frankly and personally speaking, growing up in Punjab, I have never heard anyone terming Urdu speakers or any other ethnic group as traitors. Whoever does say it is obviously an ethnically charged hate monger who should not be given any breathing space. As should be done with anyone who says it about any group of Pakistanis.
Regardless, my point was as explained to
@Blacklight above.
That is a deliberately dishonest statement. I'll clear it one last time. I never commented on "Karachi's haq". I actually don't get to since Karachiites know what's better for their city and they can strive for it as long as they remain within the law, as is their right. I explicitly stated this before in one of my posts.
My posts are directly related to you and a few other members here blaming the ruin of Karachi on Punjabis and the rest of Pakistan. My counterargument was that Karachi's ruin is primarily the doing of Karachi's own inhabitants, not just Urdu speakers but all of them. And that Karachiites and Urdu speakers should climb out of these dishonest claims and stop spreading ethnic hatred. Karachi was primarily ruined by MQM, Karachi elected MQM (It does not matter if you personally ever voted for MQM or not), Karachi did not do anything to stop MQM, Karachi does not get to blame the rest of Pakistan for it.
You then implied that the federal state indulged in extra judicial killings in the 90s so MQM was within its rights to do what it did. This is obviously a foolish argument since there is literally no excuse or justification for MQM's actions, no matter what the federal government did.
Then you started claiming that I somehow did not want Karachi to have its "Haq" in hopes of diverting the entire argument. I won't allow it.
For some reason you also keep complaining that people bring in MQM whenever you blame the rest of Pakistan for what MQM did under the patronage of Karachiites for decades................
For Pakistan as a whole? Yes of course. IMO, only due to a lack of opportunity on MQM's part.
For Karachi alone? Not even close. MQM's activities were more akin to a terrorist organisation than a political party.
MQM waley 10 rs khatey the.....PPP aur PML-N waley AB BHI poora poora khazana SAAF kar rahe hain.
You clearly did not understand what was being discussed or said. Read through it again.
I'm sorry but that is text book false dichotomy and red herring rolled into one.
Firstly, under no circumstances does anyone anywhere in the world has any right whatsoever to pickup arms against the legitimate rule of the state, the government, its people, or law. There is only one verdict under law if anyone anywhere in the world does so. You have been given the avenues to fight for your rights under Pakistani law, as defunct as it may be. This excuse just does not fly. I know you know this. Disappointed that you'd act ignorant to it just for your personal ethno-linguistic politics. Or would you afford the same excuse to BLA? TTP? PTM? Mukti Bahini? I could've just as easily copy pasted one of your own posts against PTM here.
Secondly, those gangs did nothing for the rights of Karachiites. Did extort
you, kill
you, steal from
you, make
your lives miserable, hold
you and
your city hostage. Didn't think twice before joining the same government coalitions that they were your "champions" against. This was no righteous fight against some great evil as you are trying to make it out to be. You messed up, got drawn into ethno-linguistic politics to your own detriment. Now you try to blame that on the others as well. Instead, own up to it and bring the country out of this ethno jahalat.
How does that have anything to do with my post or argument? I'd advise against it, I don't fall for it as easily. Don't blame you though, you have little else to stand on. MQM did ruin Karachi, Karachi did keep MQM in power. Debate that, if you will.
What Ayub did in 1965 not only has nothing to do with Karachi's current state, as you said yourself "Jab tak Karachi capital tha, mulk sahi chal raha tha", it was also not directed only towards Urdu speakers and/or Karachiites.
Another infantile claim produced out of thin air. The Bangali qualms, according to them at least, stemmed from their less than appropriate handling by the West Pakistani establishment and bureaucracy since the time of Partition. Which, as you've put before yourself on this very forum, was the time Urdu speakers were running the country better than it has ever been run.
I will call you out every single time you try to inflame ethnic hatred here. As is with any kind of hatred, it only satisfies your own insecurities. Does not do much to help your argument.
Don't I? Apparently, I know enough to make you dance all over the place trying to evade the actual argument. Answer it. Flame baiting is futile.
Your finger is the one doing the pointing. I've only bent it back towards you.
You blamed the others for your own doing. Time to self reflect and take some ownership. You are exactly that which you claim to despise, such is the result of every single ethno-nationalist. Quite ironic.
And I am proud of Karachi for that. Karachi has set an example which I now pray the rest of Pakistan will follow as well.
However, under no circumstance does this allow Karachiites to blame their city's ruin on the rest of Pakistan when it was primarily MQM which ruined Karachi with Karachi's support. You people keep trying to side step this simple fact by bringing matters which have nothing to do with the argument whatsoever. It's amusing.
What is still ruining Karachi? There we have no disagreement. It is the PPP's hold on the province.
Sure. Everyone who calls out your nonsense has double standards and is out to get you. It is always the other.
"Karachiites" not "Muhajir". The exact same way you have rightly blamed Sindhis for keeping PPP and the Punjabis for keeping PMLN in power. It works both ways, bud. Besides, I can't really blame Multanis for bringing and keeping Altaf Hussain in power.
Was Musharraf brought to power by "Muhajir" support? If so, do you willingly admit bringing a usurper into power through an act which, under the Pakistani constitution, is tantamount to treason?
Please stop posting nonsense. You are wasting both our time.
No he wasn't. As traitorous as Nawaz is, Kargil was an idiotic blunder and a lost opportunity. There's plenty about it on this very forum, go through it. Won't let you derail the discussion.
Did I? Stop trying to dilute my argument.
You blamed everyone, including all Punjabis, for what has happened to Karachi. Yet claim innocence for Karachi electing MQM for decades.
I, personally, wholly blame every single Pakistani for playing right into the hands of PMLN, PPP, MQM, JUI, ANP and now PTI. Fools, the lot of us. Except for the Gilgit Baltistanis, of course. They still have no say in it.
Stop giving excuses for that two-bit politician. He clearly meant it as a threat. Any self-respecting nation would have thrown him out to task after those comments.
The centre is as corrupt as the provinces. You have the exact same culprits sitting there. Look at the regions historically under federal control.
Is not Karachi's salvation, and the rest of the country's, in the dissolution of power to a micro scale? Would save Multan from Lahore, Hazara from Khyber and Karachi from Sindh.
Is there an argument there somewhere? Are you saying that MQM should not be called a traitorous party because Karachi has produced patriots? Or are you saying that patriots from Karachi should not be celebrated because MQM is called a traitorous party? Sure doesn't stop you from celebrating Karnal Sher Khan while criticising the likes of PTM.
How can you even come up with such a statement?
