Is it true, the highest ratio of officers down during ongoing operations in Pak army

[iLION12345_1]

Compare the number of suicide bombings occurring in every corner of Pakistan during American occupation of Afghanistan versus now.

It’s not rocket science what they were doing. You should count your lucky stars that they left.

This is exactly the problem, blaming them instead of our own shortcomings, and then they say why nothing ever gets better.

Ask the several hundred people who’ve died in the last year due to terrorist attacks how lucky they feel.

The lowest amount of terrorist attacks in Pakistan also occurred when the Americans were still in Afghanistan, just like the highest amount did, what that shows is that it doesn’t happen when we have our own shit together, wether the Americans are there or not. Did we not clean up Wasiristan and Swat while the Americans were still there? So why can’t we clean up the border and BL now that they’re gone, if they were the problem?

Now how do you explain the sudden and noticeable increase in terrorist attacks after the Americans left? And how long before it goes from just the borders to the mainland? The terrorism is there, many are just not feeling it yet because it hasn’t reached us, or are those people dying in Baluchistan or KPK at the borders not as Pakistani so they don’t matter?

 

[TheSolution]

Again this delusion of Pakistan helping taliban. Where did Pakistan help taliban? Yes at most with refugees and making money off NATO containers. Infact Pakistan made billions from the US. Pakistan provided bases, routes and much more to US, u think taliban will forget that? Pakistan even handed over the taliban ambassador to US and he was tortured in guantanamo bay. We had jailed the others and only freed them when taliban made a deal with US. Pakistan handed over thousands of taliban, including Pakistan citizens who mostly died in guntanamo bay. Taliban see Pakistan as a US puppet, its the reason they talked directly with US and made a deal.
I feel this uptick in violence is an excuse that Pakistan will use to provide new bases to US.

Haqqani network was controlled and funded by Pakistan and many other leaders.

ISI was literally marked unofficially as a terrorist organisation.

There was definitely support for the Taliban since for 20 years establishment peddled propaganda in support of it and against NATO.

 

[TNT]

Haqqani network was controlled and funded by Pakistan and many other leaders.

ISI was literally marked unofficially as a terrorist organisation.

There was definitely support for the Taliban since for 20 years establishment peddled propaganda in support of it and against NATO.

And yet in those days Pakistan would convince US that Pakistan does not help them. Actually actions speak louder than words and we have seen the actions. Pakistan only proved that it is an untrustworthy two faced hypocrite state. Pakistani policy led it to be trusted by no one and hated by all. Na idhur kay rahay na odhur k rahay. Looking at this establishment and how it treats its own citizens, i doubt anyone trusts it and im sure everyone hates it.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

If it is true, it speaks highly of the quality of its officer cadre. It means officers lead from the front.

Regards

 

[HAIDER]

Richly deserved, may all the khaki creatures end up in worst part of hell. Amen.

I think these soldiers deserve the respect. The actual issue on top. Imagine in a recent case, due to a shortage of officers, a Signals officer deployed and gave company command, which makes no sense..........and he fell in the line of duty few days ago.

 

[SaadH]

Haqqani network was controlled and funded by Pakistan and many other leaders.

ISI was literally marked unofficially as a terrorist organisation.

There was definitely support for the Taliban since for 20 years establishment peddled propaganda in support of it and against NATO.

Haqqani are not taliban, alignment with them goes back to Afghan Jihad days and those connections continued after US invasion of Afghanistan.

 

[LeGenD]

I thin these soldiers deserve the respect. The actual issue on top. Imagine in a recent case, due to a shortage of officers, a Signals officer deployed and gave company command, which makes no sense..........and he is fall in the line of duty few days ago.

Pakistan Army have many good soldiers who are doing their job. These soldiers are not at fault. Problem is in the decision making system. The Army is supposed to have strategic foresight with institutional homework but it seems to have thinkers on the level of Haqeeqat TV instead.

 

[fitpOsitive]

We’ve had higher ratios during WoT, 2009 and 2014, but without a major active OP, yes, this is likely the highest ratio.

I wonder where all those Pakistanis are now who celebrated the American exit from Afghanistan and the Taliban takeover, the ones who thought all the people who were warning about the true intentions and nature of the Taliban were just American stooges. And where are the generals and political decision makers who thought it was a good idea to support the Taliban take over. What made us think we could control the Taliban when USSR and USA (or rather all of NATO) couldn’t? The Taliban used Pakistan’s support to take over and fooled us all into thinking they’d be on our side afterwards, and the entire Pakistani establishment fell for it hook, line and sinker. This is the state of the Pakistani leadership, so should we be surprised we’re losing this many men?
You reap what you sow.

Are you sure it's Taliban who are behind these attacks?
You assumed Taliban, but I see continuous attacks on Pakistans Air Power, whether with air force or with Navy. I mean, why will Talibans attack Navy or Air force? Why not army?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Are you sure it's Taliban who are behind these attacks?
You assumed Taliban, but I see continuous attacks on Pakistans Air Power, whether with air force or with Navy. I mean, why will Talibans attack Navy or Air force? Why not army?

I didn’t say the Taliban are behind them, I said that the Taliban do nothing to stop them. As it stands, Air Force and naval air assets make both easier targets (a plane is far easier to destroy than a tank or a ship) and far more expensive losses, it straight up just makes tactical sense for any enemy looking to seek maximum damage to attack their assets over anyone else’s. Besides, the attacks on these assets are very isolated, more than 95% of the attacks are in fact aimed at the army, I do not think this point stands, though I get where you’re coming from.

Richly deserved, may all the khaki creatures end up in worst part of hell. Amen.

And just like that, you have ensured a worst hell for yourself by condemning several thousand innocent Muslim soldiers and officers who were simply doing their duty. But then we say just the ones in uniform are the problem.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

A quagmire of own creation. When the deception is so much the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.
When there is no distinction between what is right and what is wrong... what is self interest and what is national interest... what is short term and what is long-term!

Pakistan is in the midst of a massive trust deficit. The collective west doesn't trust it, Chinese equally apprehensive, local masses, faithful and faithless, in house and neighbors!!!!

No one trusts Pakistan!
The language of it's leaders, diplomats and generals. Pakistan never helped its own cause, it's own well wishers and those it helped create... it ditched them all whenever it became conducive to do so... be it Sikhs in India, Kashmiris in IOK, Afghans and finally, those inside, that it not only bombed, sold but also double crossed.

So, an occupying army can only come up with excuses. The fellows were recruited long ago to establish control over these lands... bomb natives and round them up... torture them with a passion and extract every bit of information, or simply break them... it continues unabated.

It rules unchallenged!

 

[Jango]

We’ve had higher ratios during WoT, 2009 and 2014, but without a major active OP, yes, this is likely the highest ratio.

I wonder where all those Pakistanis are now who celebrated the American exit from Afghanistan and the Taliban takeover, the ones who thought all the people who were warning about the true intentions and nature of the Taliban were just American stooges. And where are the generals and political decision makers who thought it was a good idea to support the Taliban take over. What made us think we could control the Taliban when USSR and USA (or rather all of NATO) couldn’t? The Taliban used Pakistan’s support to take over and fooled us all into thinking they’d be on our side afterwards, and the entire Pakistani establishment fell for it hook, line and sinker. This is the state of the Pakistani leadership, so should we be surprised we’re losing this many men?
You reap what you sow.

Having the US out of A-stan isn't the problem. The US has no business in the region. You can say it is the reason for the whole mess.

The main issue is how we mucked up the whole situation and COMPLETELY misread this.

Our intelligence, military, and even political setup were all bamboozled and caught flat footed by the IEA and others. Shoddy, pathetic, and foolish strategies, if there was a strategy to begin with.

But as usual, no one is going to be questioned, punished, or even reprimanded. We will never get a Senate hearing where the ex or current DG ISI comes and explains to the people of what they planned and how they fcked it up, because yeh Pakistan hai.

We got fooled by chappal wearing AK wielding fighters.

We wanted the IEA to do our bidding, and in return we gave them nothing except the usual peanuts we used to give them. When the Taliban were under US occupation, they would say yes to anything we said in return for meager resources or support. Jab aap ko bhook lagi ho to aik roti bhi chalti hai.

But now that they are free, they don't give a damn about us. They want a feast now, and we can't give them a feast. Look at China, look at India, look at Iran even. All are going in with their economic arm and helping Afghanistan grow as a country. Now you tell me, why would IEA side with us instead of those countries? Couple the historical animosity between the two countries too.

Our think tank was dumb as a rock at that time. Bajwa, Faiz Hameed, another 2 star general in ISI, there have got to be more too. All of them were caught with pants down.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Having the US out of A-stan isn't the problem. The US has no business in the region. You can say it is the reason for the whole mess.

The main issue is how we mucked up the whole situation and COMPLETELY misread this.

Our intelligence, military, and even political setup were all bamboozled and caught flat footed by the IEA and others. Shoddy, pathetic, and foolish strategies, if there was a strategy to begin with.

But as usual, no one is going to be questioned, punished, or even reprimanded. We will never get a Senate hearing where the ex or current DG ISI comes and explains to the people of what they planned and how they fcked it up, because yeh Pakistan hai.

We got fooled by chappal wearing AK wielding fighters.

We wanted the IEA to do our bidding, and in return we gave them nothing except the usual peanuts we used to give them. When the Taliban were under US occupation, they would say yes to anything we said in return for meager resources or support. Jab aap ko bhook lagi ho to aik roti bhi chalti hai.

But now that they are free, they don't give a damn about us. They want a feast now, and we can't give them a feast. Look at China, look at India, look at Iran even. All are going in with their economic arm and helping Afghanistan grow as a country. Now you tell me, why would IEA side with us instead of those countries? Couple the historical animosity between the two countries too.

Our think tank was dumb as a rock at that time. Bajwa, Faiz Hameed, another 2 star general in ISI, there have got to be more too. All of them were caught with pants down.

Absolutely agreed.

The presence or absence of the US in Afghanistan only ever affected Pakistan/continues to affect it because the country allows it, that is honestly one of my major gripes with either side of the political spectrum in Pakistan as well, whenever something bad happens, blame one of the foreign nations.

If the country had the balls to stand up for itself, but then also to admit mistakes and then work to fix them instead of trying to hide them, then this bullshit about America or India or even someone as technically “weak” as the afghan Taliban being the cause of all of our problems would never even be a presentable argument, we might even get to fixing the real issues, our own systems. We’re going nowhere as long as America or India is the so called cause of our problems, good luck trying to “fix” them.


Now I wonder how many more enemies we’re making with the Current stance on afghan refugees and Afghan Taliban. Even I’ve wanted Pakistan to repatriate the refugees for a long, long time, but it’s liked they picked the absolute worst moment to do so, trying to look like they still have some sort of leverage against Afghanistan by acting all tough and mighty now that they’ve been thoroughly used by the Taliban and can’t control the terror attacks using force either.

 

[LeGenD]

Having the US out of A-stan isn't the problem. The US has no business in the region. You can say it is the reason for the whole mess.

The main issue is how we mucked up the whole situation and COMPLETELY misread this.

Our intelligence, military, and even political setup were all bamboozled and caught flat footed by the IEA and others. Shoddy, pathetic, and foolish strategies, if there was a strategy to begin with.

But as usual, no one is going to be questioned, punished, or even reprimanded. We will never get a Senate hearing where the ex or current DG ISI comes and explains to the people of what they planned and how they fcked it up, because yeh Pakistan hai.

We got fooled by chappal wearing AK wielding fighters.

We wanted the IEA to do our bidding, and in return we gave them nothing except the usual peanuts we used to give them. When the Taliban were under US occupation, they would say yes to anything we said in return for meager resources or support. Jab aap ko bhook lagi ho to aik roti bhi chalti hai.

But now that they are free, they don't give a damn about us. They want a feast now, and we can't give them a feast. Look at China, look at India, look at Iran even. All are going in with their economic arm and helping Afghanistan grow as a country. Now you tell me, why would IEA side with us instead of those countries? Couple the historical animosity between the two countries too.

Our think tank was dumb as a rock at that time. Bajwa, Faiz Hameed, another 2 star general in ISI, there have got to be more too. All of them were caught with pants down.

Pakistan - Afghan tensions are old and have nothing to do with the US. Taliban hosted Al-Qaeda Network and this became a problem for both the US and Pakistan. It is surprising to see the Establishment not understanding Al-Qaeda threat properly in the 1990s when Saudi Arabia and even Sudan could see the obvious.

WE cannot blame the US to come after Al-Qaeda Network and wipe it out in the region in response to 9/11. Taliban were hammered for standing in the way and it took many years for Taliban leaders to understand the problem. But Taliban had created TTP wing to harass Pakistan before said realization. Now Taliban setup in Afghanistan does not want to take responsibility for this hotheaded mess.

Obama administration offered to cut all Taliban groups to size but Pakistan did not understand value of this offer at the time.

Trump administration offered to address Pakistani concerns with the Intra-Afghan Dialogue but Pakistan was too slow to understand value of this offer at the time.

Post in thread 'PM Kakar says Afghan Taliban "illegitimate," ; Pakistan may directly target TTP & its 'supporters' on Afghan soil - SAI' https://pdf.defence.pk/threads/pm-k...rters-on-afghan-soil-sai.775703/post-14629615

Agreed with your view otherwise:

Post in thread 'PM Kakar says Afghan Taliban "illegitimate," ; Pakistan may directly target TTP & its 'supporters' on Afghan soil - SAI' https://pdf.defence.pk/threads/pm-k...rters-on-afghan-soil-sai.775703/post-14629461

Biden administration was not in the mood to convince Pakistan on anything.

WE were taking American patience for granted, and here WE are.

 

[Khan_patriot]

Terrorism in Pakistan - Yearly Fatalities | SATP

Seeing that chart and who was in power tells a different story. Imran Khan, for his faults, wanted to sort things out, and he stated this conflict can't be won by fighting, or you'll be killing each other till the last man. During his reign, you see significantly fewer attacks than before and after.

So the better question would be, who decided to screw up afterward and couldn't stay on track to normalize things with your neighbor?

IK and his policy of appeasement is a large contributor to the sudden spike in terror attacks. I could try discussing my point but I doubt you'd ge willing to listen. So kudos.

 

[Jango]

Pakistan - Afghan tensions are old and have nothing to do with the US.

That is exactly what I have said as well.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with you largely.

Thing was, previously,:

1- We did not anticipate a US withdrawal. This is straight from the horse's mouth. We got to know right at the end, just before the public announcement.
2- In those times, we saw the Taliban as a strategic asset. We said something, they did it and showed themselves as our friends. We being the mucks we are, fell for it.