Is Imran Khan’s approach to India’s aggression correct?

[Fawadqasim1]

My brother either you are a fool or you are deliberately trying to be one. Modi needs a military victory to win election but has failed to achieve one. Do you think if India had the capability they would spare us and go silent? Nope they would use every opportunity but they don't have capability to prolong and escalate a war. The paradigm of this escalation was set by Pakistan. India was not ready for escalation they thought Pakistan would not react to harmless bombing and will go silent as there is no political process in Pakistan. And foreign intervention will stop Pakistani reaction but Pakistan reacted before India could imagine and before foreign intervention could act. This was a point scoring war which modi started for politics and we fought this war on political ground not military grounds. This is something you will never understand.

absolutely sir

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Seriously...Pakistan complains abour enviroment damage???? For a moment, i was could stop myself laughing....There are more serious things to complain about us than enviroment...This is basically, you are underestimating our enemity with you....

its government level trolling. Pakistan had just humiliated india at UN level. Akheer jugat ti.

 

[Dubious]

In this world, nations create prestige for themselves due to their actions, their resilience, and their passionate defence for their own fundamental rights in the face of aggression. It follows, that nations who throw away their fundamental rights in a fit of misplaced humor, only gather ridicule. And to make matters even worse, this ridicule isn't necessarily voiced.

This is the only sane para you generated so far!

The Pakistani Government, under the able leadership of Prime Minister Imran Khan, has once again destroyed Pakistan's image by trivializing a matter of grave national security and violation of the Geneva Convention, and sending a notice of 'environmental damage' to the United Nations.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1469822/p...of-indian-aggression-says-demarche-sent-to-un

Mind I ask how? What Dawn says is their POV...

Environment is a hot issue now a days...billion tree tsunami was well received by all and we have every right to highlight the damages our esteemed neighbour has done on our effort!

As for Pakistan's image it is faring far better now then ever in the past decade or so!

To recap, the Pakistani Governments of past and present have so far utterly failed to emphasize Indian backing of TTP and BLF, the reign of terror perpetrated by Kulbhushan Jadhev, and now the open and naked Indian aggression, acting against our national sovereignty. What they do have to show, is invitations to Modi for attending weddings, 'peace overtures', Kartarpur Corridor, and expedited return of Abhinandan.

Past govts didnt do their due, that no one can deny....However, current govt is turning the image of Pakistan to be synonym to peace! We are utilizing every opportunity to highlight peace only....
By giving back Abhi we were praised by the world over, when was the last time that happened?
For Kartarpur, we are showing another effort to peace....

Today, this author feels it his national duty to reveal the following. Someone who was posted in the Australian consulate in Islamabad says 'we' had been pushing for the opening of Kartarpur Corridor for many years. For those not perceptive enough, let me make it clear: the opening of 'Kartarpur Corridor' isn't a 'Bajwa Initiative', or an 'Imran Initiative'. It is a mindless execution of instructions given by foreign masters. Anyone who thinks that Pakistan's vested interests will be served by following such diktats is surely living in a fools' paradise.

Which foreigner is going to benefit?
2ndly, initiative of whoever, it will go down in history as a peace offering! Just like Abhi!

It is now well known that multiple foreign hands were involved in Abhinandan's release. I ask my fellow countrymen: what did we achieve from this other than lip service from foreign masters? Is Pakistan a safer country because of this?

Did officials tell you this or is this just what others echoed? FM said Abhi wasnt released under pressure...Couldnt it be possible we had already thought of releasing Abhi and other countries just added similar ideas? Why are you echoing indian media?

What did we achieve?
Pakistan releases Indian pilot in an effort to defuse the Kashmir crisis
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/01/india/india-pakistan-pilot-release-intl/index.html

Pakistan's effort to defuse the crisis!
Qatar: http://dailymailnews.com/2019/03/04...pakistans-release-of-indian-pilot-abhinandan/
Britain: https://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/48...s-PM-Imran-decision-of-releasing-Indian-pilot
UN chief: https://timesofislamabad.com/01-Mar-2019/un-chief-lauds-pakistan-pm-imran-khan-statesmanship
Turkey: http://www.centreline.com.pk/turkish-president-lauds-imran-khans-initiative-towards-peace/
Germany: http://www.app.com.pk/german-fm-lauds-pakistans-efforts-for-regional-peace-stability/
Luxembourg: https://gnnhd.tv/index.php/Pakistan/5047-1551898800
Saudi: http://www.radio.gov.pk/08-03-2019/...eace-overtures-to-normalize-current-situation
US: https://dailytimes.com.pk/364060/us-lauds-pakistans-role-in-defusing-tension-with-india/
Jordan: https://www.bexpress.com.pk/2019/03...lauds-his-handling-of-indo-pak-border-crisis/
China: http://www.inp.net.pk/china-lauds-pakistans-role-reducing-tension-with-india/
Even some indians: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/imra...a-man-of-peace-he-outmaneuvered-india.605202/
This is how NYT reports abt india: Perhaps the most telling moment in the information war came on Thursday, when Pakistan seized what could have been India’s triumphant moment, the return of the pilot. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/world/asia/pakistan-india-pilot-kashmir.html
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/is-p...l-public-relations-coup.607197/#post-11265061


As for is Pakistan safer? Well, would Pakistan be safer by having Abhi in our captive and being called an illogical and non negotiable neighbour? If india is so worried about their pilots, why havent they announced the death of the pilots that occurred on their side of the border? We shot 2 planes....why havent they announced abt 2nd plane if they have a dying attitude about their people?

Are we closer to peace because of this? Peace in the face of fascist aggression is only achieved through strength: the language of strength, the position of strength, and the show of strength in all domains. It is Pakistan's utter failure that we have been unable to project either the language of strength, or the position of strength on the diplomatic and foreign affairs front.

The language of peace is not strength...It is patience and good planning...

If peace came with strength then Afghanistan would have been peaceful since STRONG AMERICAN ARMY has been there for almost 2 decades, right?

If strength showed peace then there would be no terrorist attacks in West since those countries are STRONG, right?

Peace is not synonym to strength! Peace comes with sacrifices, it is above ego and selfish behaviour, it is def above emotional outburst! To achieve peace, it takes time. It needs a build of trust and sincerity...We have scored on sincerity and trust as we treated a POW in accordance with human rights, we also released him unharmed to sure a genuine gesture!

In this background, the ridiculous trivialization of Indian aggression by approaching the United Nations on the pretext of 'environmental damage' is buffoonery of the highest order. It shows a half-hearted attempt at making India accountable in the eyes of the world. And in doing so, treason is being committed against Pakistan's vested interests.

Will we wake up already and take stock of where we stand?

As for buffoonery....well in today's world a few new agendas do carry a certain weight of importance:
Environmental damage is def one of them! Even companies can be sued in international court for environmental damage what more a non yielding war mongering country that rejects peace?

@CriticalThought you are def not thinking critically enough but thinking emotionally and adhering to what india does...we are not indians they are not our role model..Take a rest from the thread!

2ndly, Try to understand people's POV, current situation and politics of diplomacy before voicing another comment! You sound very indian like with the childish blood thirst of attack without thinking of consequences!

You said world thinks xyz of Pakistan, had we not shown the opposite...that thought process would have been further cemented! Now since we walked in the other direction, it has shadowed doubt on those who wish to seek truth...and even if they dont, diplomacy dictates they congratulate us for a well handled situation...

 

[CriticalThought]

Mind I ask how? What Dawn says is their POV...

I am not referring to Dawn's POV, but the fact that a complaint of environmental loss has been lodged.

Environment is a hot issue now a days...billion tree tsunami was well received by all and we have every right to highlight the damages our esteemed neighbour has done on our effort!

if someone is so disconnected from reality, that the blatant violation of Pakistan's sovereignty is of no concern to them, and they are instead focused on billion tree tsunami, then such foolish people are traitors. They have no right to be in charge of the country, because they don't understand what governance means. My OP highlights this appalling state of mind within the government, and I was more than prepared to find defenders from the general public as well.

As for Pakistan's image it is faring far better now then ever in the past decade or so!

You have existential enemies in the form of India, Israel, America, France, and Britain. This group is using the platform of FATF to destroy your economy, the platform of UN to label you as the source of terrorism, and officials from your neighboring country to pressurize you for doing more. Now tell me, has this new found 'image' helped Pakistan solve any of these problems? No! What it has done is improve Imran Khan's personal standing and image in the eyes of the world, at the cost of Pakistan's vested interests. If this isn't treason, I don't know what else is. This is a continuation of the backstabbing by Nawaz and Zardari. Whenever the time comes to defend Pakistan's vested interests, our rulers keep their own image and brand at the forefront.

Past govts didnt do their due, that no one can deny....However, current govt is turning the image of Pakistan to be synonym to peace! We are utilizing every opportunity to highlight peace only....
By giving back Abhi we were praised by the world over, when was the last time that happened?
For Kartarpur, we are showing another effort to peace....

Open your eyes to what is going on in the world today. There is a trade war going on. Russia is asserting its power. There is a stand-off brewing in Venezuela. Nations throughout the world are using the language of power, and it is now the accepted coin of international geo-politics. You are not going to get peace by singing for it, you will have to grab what is rightfully yours and claim it forcefully.

Which foreigner is going to benefit?
2ndly, initiative of whoever, it will go down in history as a peace offering! Just like Abhi!

Since you are so naive, let me open your eyes to what the world is looking at. With Abhi's capture, there was a nuclear standoff in the making. When the world sees itself at risk, it will do anything to lure you into a concession. This includes singing Pangaeas of your peacefulness. By polishing your ego, the world avoided the nuclear standoff, and now that the situation is under control, no one really gives a damn about you. Even if Imran Khan gets a nobel peace prize for backstabbing his country, you will still stand accused of terrorism, financing terrorism, sponsoring terrorism, and you will be asked to do more. You have failed to highlight India's true face as aggressor, perpetrator of state terrorism, and sponsor of terrorism using Afghan soil.

History is written by victors. All you got was a bunch of headlines and news pieces. In reality, you still stand accused of terrorism, being the center and source of terrorism. While you harp on about 'peace offering' in the confines of Pakistan, the world as of right now is witnessing 'Hotel Mumbai' on big screens and sympathizing with India. You are the epitome of peace and friendliness only in your own mind, and in the few 'comments' and articles people wrote to pander your ego and goad you into acting against your own best interests.

I am going to skip over the rest of the same useless stuff you have written.

As for is Pakistan safer? Well, would Pakistan be safer by having Abhi in our captive and being called an illogical and non negotiable neighbour? If india is so worried about their pilots, why havent they announced the death of the pilots that occurred on their side of the border? We shot 2 planes....why havent they announced abt 2nd plane if they have a dying attitude about their people?

I am not going to waste energy again on this

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/mockery-of-pakistans-vested-interests.608230/page-2#post-11281358

The language of peace is not strength...It is patience and good planning...

If peace came with strength then Afghanistan would have been peaceful since STRONG AMERICAN ARMY has been there for almost 2 decades, right?

If strength showed peace then there would be no terrorist attacks in West since those countries are STRONG, right?

Peace is not synonym to strength! Peace comes with sacrifices, it is above ego and selfish behaviour, it is def above emotional outburst! To achieve peace, it takes time. It needs a build of trust and sincerity...We have scored on sincerity and trust as we treated a POW in accordance with human rights, we also released him unharmed to sure a genuine gesture!

You are making the amateurish mistake of applying the lessons from guerilla warfare to confrontation with a nation state. The two are completely different.

If you want to make a joke out of yourself thinking you have won the hearts of Indians, then carry on. The reality is, this is just the beginning of pressure tactics with full backing from America and its allies, and demands on you will continue until you give up your nuclear weapons. If you are so blind you cannot see this reality, then keep bumbling around.

And again, I am not going to address the rest of your post which is just a repeat of the same points.

As for buffoonery....well in today's world a few new agendas do carry a certain weight of importance:
Environmental damage is def one of them! Even companies can be sued in international court for environmental damage what more a non yielding war mongering country that rejects peace?

@CriticalThought you are def not thinking critically enough but thinking emotionally and adhering to what india does...we are not indians they are not our role model..Take a rest from the thread!

2ndly, Try to understand people's POV, current situation and politics of diplomacy before voicing another comment! You sound very indian like with the childish blood thirst of attack without thinking of consequences!

You said world thinks xyz of Pakistan, had we not shown the opposite...that thought process would have been further cemented! Now since we walked in the other direction, it has shadowed doubt on those who wish to seek truth...and even if they dont, diplomacy dictates they congratulate us for a well handled situation...[/QUOTE]

 

[Dubious]

I am not referring to Dawn's POV, but the fact that a complaint of environmental loss has been lodged.

ok...what is wrong with it? We did suffer environmental loss..It should be documented and now it is! So in future if someone says there were terrorists there we can say it was trees we even raised a voice against it...We even made a complaint at international levels...meaning we arent hiding anything [so it serves more than 1 purpose and documentation at higher levels will only play in our favour]

if someone is so disconnected from reality, that the blatant violation of Pakistan's sovereignty is of no concern to them, and they are instead focused on billion tree tsunami, then such foolish people are traitors. They have no right to be in charge of the country, because they don't understand what governance means. My OP highlights this appalling state of mind within the government, and I was more than prepared to find defenders from the general public as well.

May I know who said that? Our sovereignty was taken up on international level also. We showcased that we have the right to defend since our LOC was violated...No one could even say the opposite or claim we were violators! We played it as best we could!

I think you dont understand what governance means...it def does not mean to become like Modi and to fall like the fate of Modi!

Modi did what you are asking us to do and exactly where does he stand right now?

You have existential enemies in the form of India, Israel, America, France, and Britain. This group is using the platform of FATF to destroy your economy, the platform of UN to label you as the source of terrorism, and officials from your neighboring country to pressurize you for doing more. Now tell me, has this new found 'image' helped Pakistan solve any of these problems? No! What it has done is improve Imran Khan's personal standing and image in the eyes of the world, at the cost of Pakistan's vested interests. If this isn't treason, I don't know what else is. This is a continuation of the backstabbing by Nawaz and Zardari. Whenever the time comes to defend Pakistan's vested interests, our rulers keep their own image and brand at the forefront.

This new found image is still being built! You can only lie so far that we are aggressors...when we appear to be the one holding the flower of peace!

As for Pakistan's vested interest...It is def not falling as low as Modi! It is Modi who would have acted as blood thirsty as he is had he a PAF pilot. We showed the world we are not him, nor like him! We are peaceful country, leader and people!

It is not treason to raise the world from Pakistan using force to Pakistan preaching peace!

And our vested interest is NOT TO BECOME LIKE MODI OR INDIA! Do you remember how "peacefully" Modi dealt with Gujrat and you that were his own people and you want us to do that on international stage for what? To be labelled as Modi's twin?

Open your eyes to what is going on in the world today. There is a trade war going on. Russia is asserting its power. There is a stand-off brewing in Venezuela. Nations throughout the world are using the language of power, and it is now the accepted coin of international geo-politics. You are not going to get peace by singing for it, you will have to grab what is rightfully yours and claim it forcefully.

No forceful fits have ever won anything!
Winning a war starts with winning hearts....If you can stop a war before it happens, then you are victorious! Nothing less! Those who see it as less are Modi's supporters who see peace as a sign of weakness..Dont forget Islam is a religion of peace...We need to show that side! The side never preached by screaming Mullahs! The side hidden by media and the side that is left out in speeches! Our Nabi's side!

Since you are so naive, let me open your eyes to what the world is looking at. With Abhi's capture, there was a nuclear standoff in the making. When the world sees itself at risk, it will do anything to lure you into a concession. This includes singing Pangaeas of your peacefulness.

You actually think that?
Then I am sorry to say you are naive!

What actually would have happened would be Pakistan blamed for not handing over pilot, being the start of a war no one wanted or can afford and being seen as a war monger because we are a Muslim country [and not eyed very well the burden of the blame would have been thrown on us] we have more responsibilities than falling to our ego of punishing!

2ndly, right now we
bombed their land
downed their jets
got their pilot and returned him in 1 piece
proved their lies!

We established
we can bomb them, but we chose not to! - Not that we cant. It is a choice of the the upper hand
PAF is not dead
We adhere to world laws even in such times [just like Islam tells us]
Our media isnt war mongering as theirs!

By polishing your ego, the world avoided the nuclear standoff, and now that the situation is under control, no one really gives a damn about you. Even if Imran Khan gets a nobel peace prize for backstabbing his country, you will still stand accused of terrorism, financing terrorism, sponsoring terrorism, and you will be asked to do more. You have failed to highlight India's true face as aggressor, perpetrator of state terrorism, and sponsor of terrorism using Afghan soil.

1) If our ego was polished as you claim, we would have punched india like a blind bull [more or less like they are trying to throw everything except the kitchen sink at us hoping something sticks- Now that is ego bruised...] As for polishing our ego- How does ego come when you are the one who has to bow for peace? Islam says one who makes Sullah between 2 is great! So, how on earth are you viewing us less great when ALLAH views us great?

2) As for noble peace prize IK rejected it claimed anyone who can resolve Kashmir issue should get it!

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...arty-tweets-in-hindi/articleshow/68258378.cms

How is that ego? If he was egoistic, he would have said yes please vote for me for Noble prize!

3) How are we accused for what you claimed? We have been accused for it since decades...Now taking the opposite stand should mitigate that accusation!

4) We did highlight india's true intends of not wanting peace...How they werent the one who reached out, but it was us who reached out! Not them...so peace doesnt come naturally to them!

History is written by victors. All you got was a bunch of headlines and news pieces. In reality, you still stand accused of terrorism, being the center and source of terrorism. While you harp on about 'peace offering' in the confines of Pakistan, the world as of right now is witnessing 'Hotel Mumbai' on big screens and sympathizing with India. You are the epitome of peace and friendliness only in your own mind, and in the few 'comments' and articles people wrote to pander your ego and goad you into acting against your own best interests.

All what you are saying is what has happened in the past due to silence..this time we were not silent and we didnt play like the past coz even india was at a loss of words with our stand!

As for sympathizing...the only sympathy india is getting is that they have a blood thirst leader with a terrible unprofessional media who cant tell right from wrong!

As for epitome of peace- mind you that was the stand of my Nabi too! He struck peace even with a Jewish tribe - do you think being a Nabi he didnt know of the consequences? He did..but he was an example so he showed it ...that peace comes before your fears of consequences!

As for few comments and articles abt ego---THOSE few comments and articles will be positive news of Pakistan something we Pakistanis are dying for! A person who can come up as victorious in positive light!

I am going to skip over the rest of the same useless stuff you have written.

Try reading your own...Sounds no different to the indian media and people who are crying for war, ghus kay marna and whatnot!

Simple. Make India agree that it committed an act of war, and started a war. Make them sign a declaration to officially end the war. Then hand over the prisoner of war. If there is no war, why such haste in handing over a non-POW?

How? You think an egoistic person agrees to peace? THAT is how you tell who is the one with ego!

Thieves tear down your door, rampage in your house waking you up from sleep, and you file an FIR for damage to plants in the garden. Next time the policeman will facilitate the thieves.

Wrong analogy...A murderer sneaks into your home but you get up in time and make an FIR with the police...It is not up to you now to go shoot the murderer...If the police is corrupt what can you do? Be a vigilante? You have registered your FIR with proof and of the damage to your garden that occurred...Now you wait! If the murderer comes back, you have every right to shoot him coz you already have an FIR and so police knows this guy is dangerous ...

You are making the amateurish mistake of applying the lessons from guerilla warfare to confrontation with a nation state. The two are completely different.

You think Afghanistan is not a nation state? Then you are mistaken!

If you want to make a joke out of yourself thinking you have won the hearts of Indians, then carry on. The reality is, this is just the beginning of pressure tactics with full backing from America and its allies, and demands on you will continue until you give up your nuclear weapons. If you are so blind you cannot see this reality, then keep bumbling around.

Who wants to win their hearts? You do! You want us to behave like them and give them what they want....proof we are equally blood thirsty!

We gave them the opposite and it sent them in a stream of gymnastics!

You need to think outside your "WHAT IS INDIAN DOING/ WHAT WILL INDIA DO/ WHAT HAS INDIA GOT/ WHO IS SUPPORTING INDIA/ WHAT WILL INDIA THINK OF US" habits!

 

[letsrock]

I too was mystified why Pakistan gave up abhinandan so quickly. The indian act was ultimate in treachery , they violated all international norms and bombed another country whose sovereignty completely lies with Pakistan in a cowardly middle of the night. And India did not even have the guts to issue a declaration of war. It tried to hide its despicable behaviour under a mealy mouthed verbiage of "non-military" aggression. India needs to be dragged to UN for this and have a resolution against it - whether environmental route is best or not is unknown to me.

Pakistan does not have economic weight India has thanks to its billion plus slaves that Delhi rules. So Pakistan must not give up any hardwon military victory easily. Keeping Abhinandan for week or 2 would have completely humiliated Modi India. I truly hope Imran negotiated significant benefits for Pak in the backroom for this.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Everyone has a right to express himself, no matter how idiotic his opinions are
but doesn't PDF has certain rules regarding 'new threads' & 'titles of the threads' ? @Dubious

 

[Dubious]

Everyone has a right to express himself, no matter how idiotic his opinions are
but doesn't PDF has certain rules regarding 'new threads' & 'titles of the threads' ? @Dubious

Yes but since this is a personally written piece...he can title it as he pleases!

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yes but since this is a personally written piece...he can title it as he pleases!

Are you sure anyone can write a piece (no matter how stupid) and title it as he pleases, even if such a title is agenda/politics driven, that some might find inappropriate or offensive?
Is this rule applicable across the board?

 

[Dubious]

Are you sure anyone can write a piece (no matter how stupid) and title it as he pleases, even if such a title is agenda/politics driven, that some might find inappropriate or offensive?
Is this rule applicable across the board?

It is a forum to discuss ...How else would things get discussed?

SOME may find it inappropriate then dont visit the thread, make a complaint in GHQ and let management decide...THAT I believe is the rule, right?

 

[M. Sarmad]

It is a forum to discuss ...How else would things get discussed?

SOME may find it inappropriate then dont visit the thread, make a complaint in GHQ and let management decide...THAT I believe is the rule, right?

This kind of favoritism won't do any good to the forum.
You need to learn to apply same rules to everyone.

And we have 'members' club' for a purpose I believe. We can post/discuss all kinds of such stupid ideas there

 

[Dubious]

This kind of favoritism won't do any good to the forum.
You need to learn to apply same rules to everyone.

And we have 'members' club' for a purpose I believe. We can post/discuss all kinds of such stupid ideas there

What favoritism? Like I said...have any doubts go to GHQ or ask senior mods like @AgNoStiC MuSliM

 

[The Accountant]

Seriously...Pakistan complains abour enviroment damage???? For a moment, i was could stop myself laughing....There are more serious things to complain about us than enviroment...This is basically, you are underestimating our enemity with you....

Man we could have complained if we hadnt avenged it ... we r not kid that needs to complain to the teacher ... we can defend ourselves ... this is just for trolling india ... we r enjoying

 

[M. Sarmad]

What favoritism? Like I said...have any doubts go to GHQ or ask senior mods like @AgNoStiC MuSliM

No, I don't need to go to GHQ, or ask any senior mod.
I have made my point in open.
It's for the PDF management to decide how they want to run this forum, and the extent to which selective rules should (or shouldn't) be applied.

 

[Dubious]

No, I don't need to go to GHQ, or ask any senior mod.
I have made my point in open.
It's for the PDF management to decide how they want to run this forum, and the extent to which selective rules should (or shouldn't) be applied.

How is it selective rule? That I allow people to question Pakistan's sovereignty?