Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[帅的一匹]

What the bleedin hell do you mean? SU 30 MKI we produce inhouse, export parts to Algeria,Vietnam and Malaysia, even Russia itself? Ask yourself why the WS 10 goes boom every test flight? Why it takes 2 mins to full afterburner thrust when modern ones take 8 -12 seconds max? Why you are running after a su 35 engine when your "Glorious, Brilliant,etc" comrade says WS 18 or so?

Introspection is the key, few countries have a will for it. That why every failure here is looked at with magnifying glasses, you blacken yours.

i wanna hear Kaveri's boom, even in my dream. see? You guys always has an excuse.

By the way, if WS10 is fully matured, you airforce will be overrun in no time. China could produce 300 J11b at the cost of 100 Rafale, see the difference?

Ostrich policy won't work out there in the battlefield.

 

[senkakudefender]

i wanna hear Kaveri's boom, even in my dream. see? You guys always has an excuse.

By the way, if WS10 is fully matured, you airforce will be overrun in no time. China could produce 300 J11b at the cost of 100 Rafale, see the difference?

Ostrich policy won't work out there in the battlefield.

Really, which year it was matured 2025? Even today your J20 uses AL 31F and even painted the ends silver for stealth.


1 rafale = 3 J11s get it? The rafale has the distinction of having a spectra "GHOST" warfare kit. Meaning he'll pick your radar signatures even at 300 - 400km minimum, like f22,f35 can at 1200km. Also it can do sustained 11g and run circles around any SU-30MKI/SU-35 and is also more expensive. We could have got 3 su30mki(SU 37 upgrade SU30MKI) for price of one.

i wanna hear Kaveri's boom, even in my dream. see? You guys always has an excuse.

By the way, if WS10 is fully matured, you airforce will be overrun in no time. China could produce 300 J11b at the cost of 100 Rafale, see the difference?

Ostrich policy won't work out there in the battlefield.

Fact is you'll need an engine first. Kaveri has by god's grace no such problems as you mention.

http://www.defencenow.com/news/164/indigenous-kaveri-engine-clears-flight-tests-in-russia.html

It can do 81KN but our IAF is not pleased with low output.

 

[ziaulislam]

Really, which year it was matured 2025? Even today your J20 uses AL 31F and even painted the ends silver for stealth.


1 rafale = 3 J11s get it? The rafale has the distinction of having a spectra "GHOST" warfare kit. Meaning he'll pick your radar signatures even at 300 - 400km minimum, like f22,f35 can at 1200km. Also it can do sustained 11g and run circles around any SU-30MKI/SU-35 and is also more expensive. We could have got 3 su30mki(SU 37 upgrade SU30MKI) for price of one.



Fact is you'll need an engine first. Kaveri has by god's grace no such problems as you mention.

Indigenous Kaveri Engine Clears Flight Tests in Russia

It can do 81KN but our IAF is not pleased with low output.

sir no matter what you say rafale CANT BECOME an F-35 neither its vastly superior than other 4.5 gen plateforms like F-16E/F,J-10B or J-11

BEFORE BASHING CHINA , HAVE SOME SHAME
They have fully devloped near dozen aircrafts some with indigenous engines
they may lack a fully indigenous engine for now but no indepedent anaylst would say that they wouldnt have one ready before mid 2015

they are spending huge only second to USA..they are going to over take USA in economy by 2016 and there seems to be no stop to their advancements...
living in reality is so difficult for you guys, even after seeing J-20s inducted vastly you will be laughing it out, the same way your politicans laughed out in 1962 before it was too late

 

[ziaulislam]

this is pakdef forum, not indian def forum..
so ofcourse they will be pakistanis here discussing things ..how idiot could one become

buying su 35 say who?..russians and indians...
they dont need to buy su 30 or any other fighter anymore

 

[Echo_419]

But don't you think we are operating highly priced mki's and tejas both mk and mk2 variants on the way.
I know that 5 gen programs are costly
but don't you think orders placed are huge in no.
we can half the orders and in remaining money can get couple of bombers for time being till Drdo AURA is inducted..

Rahtore sahib
you are currently a New member AKA a newbie please don't start threads right now learn a little about forum then do this

 

[senkakudefender]

this is pakdef forum, not indian def forum..
so ofcourse they will be pakistanis here discussing things ..how idiot could one become

buying su 35 say who?..russians and indians...
they dont need to buy su 30 or any other fighter anymore

Quote karne mein dar lagta hain na? Kahi ye bharitya mera le na le!

Since the early 1990s, an extensive sales arrangement of the Su-35 to People's Republic of China has been discussed; in 1995 Sukhoi officials announced their proposal to co-produce the Su-35 with China, on the condition that China agreed to purchase 120 aircraft.[79] However, it has been alleged that the Russian Foreign Ministry blocked both the sale of the Su-35 and Tupolev Tu-22M bombers over concerns about the arrangements for Chinese production of the Su-27.[80] It is believed Russia has been reluctant to sell the Su-35 as it fears that China may reverse engineer its aircraft systems.[81]
As early as 2006, China was showing interest in the modernized Su-35, and was reportedly negotiating with Moscow for a purchase of the new fighter. Kommersant reported that by the first half of 2007, a contract for an unspecified number would have been signed.[82][83] At the 2007 MAKS air show, a number of Chinese delegates were seen taking photos and videos of the prototypes Su-35.[84] The deal had presumably fallen through. In November 2010, it was reported that Russia again, through Rosoboronexport, was ready to resume talks with China on the sale of the Su-35; China reciprocated in 2011 by presenting a proposal on the purchase of the fighter.[85][86]
In March 2012, the Russian media reported that the two countries were in final contract negotiations for 48 Su-35s in a deal worth US$4 billion, or US$85 million apiece; the remaining obstacle is reportedly Moscow's demand that Beijing guarantee proper licensing for its Su-35 production.[87][88] China denied this deal.[89] In late 2012, it was reported that China wanted to only purchase 24 units, which was less than what Russia deemed to be worthwhile, thus stalling negotiations.[90] By the end of the year, however, negotiations resumed, this time involving 24 aircraft instead of 48.[91]
In March 2013, media articles stated the two countries signed an initial agreement for 24 Su-35s and four submarines prior to Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit to Russia.[92][93] Russia stated it had not signed any arms agreement with China, who is believed to be interested in the Su-35's NPO Saturn 117S engine.

 

[A G 1046]

guys this thread is about do IAF needs rafale

the answer is no ...why

1. too damn expensive both in terms of list price and after sales

2. not too far ahead of the super sukoi which will start coming in a few months

3. we have better options we can go for F16-SU 35 combo

to me F 16 - SU 35 combo is the best option for IAF as we have over a decade experience with MKI & owr best friends have very good knowledge of F16s both are way much better in every expect and leathality of there wepon ,ASEA radar & EW suite and price are also better and in both of them we can count on israelies , Americans & russians for better package while greedy french will always give there stuff for twice the market rate

 

[Abingdonboy]

TOT is not gonna happen especially buying non-Russian products, bear my words. Rafale is not gonna teach India anything, all you get is a fighter worth 100 million per. A correct phrase to describe it is: the meat on the choopping block. although Indian rupee has been depreciating to nearly half, French will relentlessly keep hike-up the price you have to pay. The more you buy, the quick you'll be dead. Invest more on indeginous production will help you in the final, the only thing Westerner goona do is to bleed you white in the end.

What a typical troll answer.

0 evidence to back up your wild assertations, the Rafale will come with no ToT "mark my words"??!! I wasn't aware we on PDF were privileged enough to have a member of the Central Negations Committee or high-level Dassualt negotiating team. Such intricate knowledge of the deal is very refreshing- care to share any more facts??


FYI, as much as you fools might like to ignore the MMRCA deal will be paid for in EUROS at an exchange rate agrees upon a couple of years ago. Even still the Rupee-Euro exchange rate has not seen anything like the down-turn the Rupee-USD ER has.

 

[A G 1046]

greedy french will always put spanners in wheels if ever rafale deal is signed and will never give TOT they promissed and will milk india as they did with scorpene subs

 

[Abingdonboy]

sir no matter what you say rafale CANT BECOME an F-35 neither its vastly superior than other 4.5 gen plateforms like F-16E/F,J-10B or J-11

BEFORE BASHING CHINA , HAVE SOME SHAME
They have fully devloped near dozen aircrafts some with indigenous engines
they may lack a fully indigenous engine for now but no indepedent anaylst would say that they wouldnt have one ready before mid 2015

they are spending huge only second to USA..they are going to over take USA in economy by 2016 and there seems to be no stop to their advancements...
living in reality is so difficult for you guys, even after seeing J-20s inducted vastly you will be laughing it out, the same way your politicans laughed out in 1962 before it was too late

What "indigenous" fighters with what "indigenous" engines???

F-7?
/Cough /cough

Mig-21


J-11?

/cough /cough


Su-33

 

[sardar1987]

First of all the pakistanis cheering at this forum must be ashamed at themselves

1)Sure india is no defence superpower(or even power for the matter) but where is pakistan??The truth hurts and the fact is you guys produce nothing......i mean nothing.You have incomplete information on anything from tanks to missiles and then u say u are working secretely!!Why laugh at us when u are just worse?

2)At the chinese,they surely have the upper hand......we are at least 10-15 years behind them.There is no harm accepting that.But the thing is as china tries to make its predominantly manufacturing economy to a consumption led economy so will be india trying to do the opposite,and whether it takes some time or not but the day indian private companies start working on defence,india will grow at a much faster pace.

3)Regarding rafale,i am not against it but whats the point of inducting it 4 years late??But it is a very potent platform especially after getting ddm ng

DDM NG

 

[flamer84]

By the way, if WS10 is fully matured, you airforce will be overrun in no time. China could produce 300 J11b at the cost of 100 Rafale, see the difference?

No.The Rafale would still massacre those SU 27 copies even with a 3/1 ratio

Why do you think the chinese state controled media went bananas when India chose Rafy? They've instantly sh%t a brick

 

[sardar1987]

China has progressed a lot but cannot compete with thales and selex when it comes to electronics(yet)

 

[flamer84]

China has progressed a lot but cannot compete with thales and selex when it comes to electronics(yet)

Exactly,and no,China can't catch up on her own,you see "catching up " doesn't work like this ,throwing money is not the perfect solution.When you catch up the tehnology someone has today the next day they will allready have the tehnology of tommorow.You can catch up only if you're given the tehnology like India is given,that's why China is desperate to have the arms embargo lifted,but nobody is that stupid to do this and then sell weapons to them.

 

[DrSomnath999]

First of all your reply is full of arrogance

LOLLZ

whose post is full of arrogance one could see from your post

i can challenge anyone here that dassault is a wrong choice.

1)Who said mig-35 = rafale considering rafale costs more than double and mig 35 having liquid cooled aesa,not solid state

then who has posted this post in post no #5 of this thread MY ghost !!

We should have invested in zhuk -ae,ols after ordering mig 35 or have gone for su-35 simply because

2)Can we really afford rafale in this current low growth scenario without the potential tot(all indications point to this )

Who told u that there is no potential ToT for rafale

3)can rafale aesa compete with no50 aesa........no

No50 aesa is for PAK-FA .Now why would u compare pak-fa 's aesa radar with RBE 2 aesa radar

4)no of radars in pakfa= one aesa,,2 side arrays and 2 l band and possibly one on the tail
can rafale counter that

again the same thing why r u comparing PAK-fa with Rafale .

Meanwhile rafale's future upgrades would include extra conformal radar array

5)stealth-better than rafale

Whose stealth PAK -FA or MIg 35 or Su 35

which one plz specify

MIg 35 & Su 35 is inferior to rafale in terms of stealth meanwhile Pakfa is 5th gen fighter meanwhile
Rafale is 4.5 th gen fighter

BTW rafale has Spectra to do that job which stealth does for PAk-FA through active cancellation
tech

6)engine-way better

For SU 35 or Pak-fa
yes russians have high thrust engines

But what i have told u before plane T/W ratio is more important than thrust of the engine as it
detects manuverabilty for a plane

Meanwhile Rafale's engine has lowest IR signature among all 4th gen fighters .Nowadays every country is having IRST so a plane must have an engine with low IR signature or else it would be detected through IRST even if the plane is stealthy

about su-35

we all know that pakfa systems will eventually come to mki and su-35 so what will be better

a)qwip infrared and aesa equiped su-35
b)rafale

your turn

it 's for remote future at the moment

we would be upgrading SU 30 mki to Super SU 30 status so what's the point of buying SU 35

Why india did a wise thing by upgrading SU 30 mki to Super Su 30 rather than buying Su 35?

1)Indian Super su 30 mki would have a cutting edge Zhuk-AE AESA radar meanwhile Irbis E has a PESA radar & Aesa is always technically superior to a PESA radar though it is expensive

2)Super Su -30 mki upgrades are still classified but what we know from sources along with an Aesa radar it is going to have
a) new cockpit may be larger size display units
b) upgraded mission computers ( probablly new system core)
c) New EW suite equivalent to Su 35's EW suite
d) Advanced Stealth characteristics ( more composites / better Ram coating)
e) Abilty to carry Brahmos ALCM ( certain structural modifications if required)
f) Even foreign weapon's & indigeious weapon integration could also be possible like Meteor ,Brimstone Astra & nirbhay



3)The problem with Flanker derivatives is it's high RCS no matter how they upgrade it .The biggest drawback of flanker derivatives is it's Straight air intake design as it is a big blunder for stealth as they still havent installed a radar blocker in it's engine in SU 35 .So stealth wise both Su 35 & Super Su 30 are going to even & inferior to western 4.5 gen fighters counter part no matter how they boast of reduced RCS.So no point of buying SU 35 rather than why not upgrading Su 30 mki .

4)Russian Su 35 still would have some advantages in performance aspect like higher thrust engines, more range & higher T/W ratio but those advantages are not decisive nor overwhelming in comparision to Super su 30

5)Russia have always known to sold similiar weapons platform to china like SU -30 MkK ,yes the chinese are developing & inducting J11b & j15 but despite all that Russia always find ways to persuade China to buy it's weapons for financial reasons
So why should india buy a platform which has no guarantee that it wont be sold to china .

6)India & Russia are already partners in developing a 5th gen plane (PAK-FA) which is a futuristic fighter designed to meet future aerial threats .SO why waste money on buying a new plane like Su 35 which's capabilty can be matched by upgrading that similiar kind of plane with added features like that of Su 30 mki to Super Su 30 standard

Read the post carefully...........product 117 is for su-35 not mig 35 and don't make jingoistic claims of rafale being the best.Once su-35 gets an aesa and qwip infrared in 3-4 years whats in rafale to counter it??

Oh Boy!


which fool is making jingoistic claims apart from you may be you are this guy with another multiple account here who have trolled in many other indian defence forums
in the name of
Mariner HK

may be u should read this article why MMRCA is important

Sp's Aviation , June 2013:

why MMRCA is important PART1
SP's Aviation June 2013 e-Magazine - SP's Aviation


Sp's Aviation, July 2013:
Why MMRCA, part 2: The balancing act

SP's Aviation July 2013 e-Magazine - SP's Aviation

Sp's Aviation, August 2013:
WHY MMRCA, part 3 : ensuring national security:

SP's Aviation August 2013 e-Magazine - SP's Aviation