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Is blasphemy a pardonable offense?

The Hadith we are discussing was supported by many sources from the times of Prophet reason why Sahi Bukhari considered this hadith as authentic.
1) the hadith CLEARLY says the punishment is for STEALING AND MURDER!
2) the day you pick up the Sahih bukhari you will know what an arrogant fool you sound like now...Both @TankMan and I have answered this part and I have answered you in another thread about SAHIH BUKHARI but you keep repeating like a broken taperecorder just shows your desperation ....
Although there is intolerance in Islam,Blasphemy law was created by British !!
No idea what your babbling about!

Yes the punishment for murder is death, But in this case those guys were tortured brutally, the additional punishment is for mocking and also leaving Islam. These things enraged Prophet.
Nope..We have a sahih hadith which shows that even when a man peed in the masjid he wasnt allowed to be yelled at even! So suit yourselves to hearts filled with hatred! :tup:
 
You have wrongly quoted ayats and Kaabs and all others were killed for Blasphemy even in time of four Caliphs few people were killed for abusing Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW

Among prisoners taken during Battle of Badr two one was Nazr Bin Haris and Uqba bin Abi Maueet were killed they were the one who used to spit and abuse and throw filthy things like camel intestines on RASOOL SAW in Makkah @TankMan @Akheilos

You have wrongly quoted ayats
No, I haven't. The context is mentioned and I have mentioned the surahs and verse numbers, so go ahead, read the surahs and quote a part that indicates I have taken verses out of context.

Among prisoners taken during Battle of Badr two one was Nazr Bin Haris and Uqba bin Abi Maueet were killed they were the one who used to spit and abuse and throw filthy things like camel intestines on RASOOL SAW in Makkah @TankMan @Akheilos
First of all, they were Quraysh Leaders and important figures in general - they were not just following orders (like regular soldiers), the were the ones giving the orders. That makes them guilty of waging war and killing Muslims (in battle), not just blasphemy.
Second, many sources contradict this story that they were executed - according to a few Sahih Hadiths, they were killed on the battlefield, while fighting.
Like this one here:
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 9, Number 499 :
'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said, "While Allah's Apostle was praying beside the Ka'ba, there were some Quraish people sitting in a gathering. One of them said, 'Don't you see this (who does deeds just to show off)? Who amongst you can go and bring the dung, blood and the abdominal contents (intestines, etc). of the slaughtered camels of the family of so and so and then wait till he prostrates and put that in between his shoulders?' The most unfortunate amongst them ('Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait) went (and brought them) and when Allah's Apostle prostrated, he put them between his shoulders. The Prophet remained in prostration and they laughed so much so that they fell on each other. A passerby went to Fatima, who was a young girl in those days. She came running and the Prophet was still in prostration. She removed them and cursed upon the Quraish on their faces. When Allah's Apostle completed his prayer, he said, 'O Allah! Take revenge on Quraish.' He said so thrice and added, 'O Allah! take revenge on 'Amr bin Hisham, 'Utba bin Rabia, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, 'Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait and 'Umar a bin Al-Walid." Abdullah added, "By Allah! I saw all of them dead in the battle field on the day of Badr and they were dragged and thrown in the Qalib (a well) at Badr: Allah's Apostle then said, 'Allah's curse has descended upon the people of the Qalib (well).

"By Allah! I saw all of them dead in the battle field on the day of Badr and they were dragged and thrown in the Qalib (a well) at Badr: Allah's Apostle then said, 'Allah's curse has descended upon the people of the Qalib (well).

And this one:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 241 :
Narrated by 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud

Once the Prophet was offering prayers at the Ka'ba. Abu Jahl was sitting with some of his companions. One of them said to the others, "Who amongst you will bring the abdominal contents (intestines, etc.) of a camel of Bani so and so and put it on the back of Muhammad, when he prostrates?" The most unfortunate of them got up and brought it. He waited till the Prophet prostrated and then placed it on his back between his shoulders. I was watching but could not do any thing. I wish I had some people with me to hold out against them. They started laughing and falling on one another. Allah's Apostle was in prostration and he did not lift his head up till Fatima (Prophet's daughter) came and threw that (camel's abdominal contents) away from his back. He raised his head and said thrice, "O Allah! Punish Quraish." So it was hard for Abu Jahl and his companions when the Prophet invoked Allah against them as they had a conviction that the prayers and invocations were accepted in this city (Mecca). The Prophet said, "O Allah! Punish Abu Jahl, 'Utba bin Rabi'a, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin 'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, and 'Uqba bin Al Mu'it (and he mentioned the seventh whose name I cannot recall). By Allah in Whose Hands my life is, I saw the dead bodies of those persons who were counted by Allah's Apostle in the Qalib (one of the wells) of Badr.

By Allah in Whose Hands my life is, I saw the dead bodies of those persons who were counted by Allah's Apostle in the Qalib (one of the wells) of Badr.
So, no, they were not executed for Blasphemy.

Anything else?

the additional punishment is for mocking and also leaving Islam
And what is your reasoning behind this conclusion? I mean, what is it that makes you discredit the option that they were punished for the combination of the crimes they committed, or the one that says they did the same to their victims and were punished proportionally?

UNBELIEVERS: To be persecuted or forgiven?
First verse:
(9:29)
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth ....."

Verse contradiction the first Verse:
(45:14)
"Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not hope for the Days of Allah; It is for Him to recompense (for good or evil) each people according to what they have earned"

In my view the two Verses can be taken seen in the context of the role played by the Prophet

During the Meccan period he is a preacher and a messenger, but in Medinan period he is the head of the state as well.
So he has to take care of both faith and state.
From the above two verses it is evident that, Prophet during Meccan period showed tolerance but when he became the head of the state .i.e after becoming a politician he ordered assassinations and also asked to wage war against infidels.

When Faith is mixed with State Politics there will always be contradictions !

For verse 9:29, the verse preceding it says:
O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.- At'Tawbah, 9:28
This verse and the following verses are clearly referring to one specific place, the Masjid al-Haram, and one specific time, which was the Quraysh's final year. It does not apply to every Muslim in every period of time, since not every Muslim lives near the Masjid al-Haram and it is not the final year for the Quraysh.

On the other hand, verse 14 of the 45th Surah (al Jathiya), has no such limitations. It is addressed to ''those who believe'', in general.
''Say (O Muhammad SAW) to the believers to forgive those who (harm them and) hope not for the Days of Allah (i.e. His Recompense), that He may recompense people according to what they have earned (i.e. to punish these disbelievers, who harm the believers)''.
And before that, in 45:11, it is mentioned that ''this is guidance'', while addressing the believers, implying that this is being addressed to all those who follow the Quran. (again, with no time or place limits given)
''This [Qur'an] is guidance''.- Al Jathiya ,45:11

So, according to all this evidence, your reasoning is incorrect.
 
You have wrongly quoted ayats and Kaabs and all others were killed for Blasphemy even in time of four Caliphs few people were killed for abusing Hazrat MUHAMMAD SAW

Among prisoners taken during Battle of Badr two one was Nazr Bin Haris and Uqba bin Abi Maueet were killed they were the one who used to spit and abuse and throw filthy things like camel intestines on RASOOL SAW in Makkah @TankMan @Akheilos
If you are talking about these guys:

Volume 5, Book 58, Number 192:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
The Prophet recited Surat An-Najam and prostrated, and there was nobody who did not prostrate then except a man whom I saw taking a handful of pebbles, lifting it, and prostrating on it. He then said, 'This is sufficient for me.' No doubt I saw him killed as a disbeliever afterwards.

He was killed afterwards for whatever sin I have not read but he was not killed right there and then when Prophet and others saw him doing wrong...Hence again disproves your opinion!

If you are talking about these 2: The Revelation of Surah Al-Kahf | Essence of Life is Love

Then the case is different...

And you should know clearly ONLY PROPHET had the RIGHT to declare whom to be murdered and when and why!

Not us never us!

We have no power nor any revelation to tell us this from that!

Plus we also have a verse that states die only as a Muslim and a hadith showing that a Muslim doing all good but before death did bad ...he went to hell and a non muslim doing all bad but before death embraced to Islam and he went to Heaven....So never judge you dont know who will take the kalimah on their death bed and become Muslim (pure and clean - better than sinful us!)
 
1) the hadith CLEARLY says the punishment is for STEALING AND MURDER!
2) the day you pick up the Sahih bukhari you will know what an arrogant fool you sound like now...Both @TankMan and I have answered this part and I have answered you in another thread about SAHIH BUKHARI but you keep repeating like a broken taperecorder just shows your desperation ....

Then why does pakistan have death penalty in the constitution??
And a majority of other muslim majority nations??

Reason for that?
 
Then why does pakistan have death penalty in the constitution??
And a majority of other muslim majority nations??

Reason for that?
Ask whoever wrote the constitution...You do know its a constitution not a revelation from GOD...hence can be wrong and amended and if I am not wrong it is more of these amendments which has screwed the constitution than anything! Jo b pagal atta hai koi amendment dal ker chala jata hai and no asshole bothers to recheck it! Jub checks and balance naa ho yeh haal hota hai!
 
I find it confusing that in the 21st century we have nations that have "blasphemy" laws...thats stoneage justice
 
1) the hadith CLEARLY says the punishment is for STEALING AND MURDER!
2) the day you pick up the Sahih bukhari you will know what an arrogant fool you sound like now...Both @TankMan and I have answered this part and I have answered you in another thread about SAHIH BUKHARI but you keep repeating like a broken taperecorder just shows your desperation ....
No idea what your babbling about!

I have no idea why people are not considering Sahih Bukhari as authentic source and conversely questioning me as an arrogant fellow !! :lol:
This guy's hadiths have very good narrative evidence of Prophets companions. If this guy's hadiths are not correct Islamic scholars would have denounced his writings long ago.
I think you are missing my point of torture ordered by Prophet.


Nope..We have a sahih hadith which shows that even when a man peed in the masjid he wasnt allowed to be yelled at even! So suit yourselves to hearts filled with hatred! :tup:

Yes there are rules but people emotions get over and out of control most of the time.
 
I find it confusing that in the 21st century we have nations that have "blasphemy" laws...thats stoneage justice

Well ,no comments:D

Ask whoever wrote the constitution...You do know its a constitution not a revelation from GOD...hence can be wrong and amended and if I am not wrong it is more of these amendments which has screwed the constitution than anything! Jo b pagal atta hai koi amendment dal ker chala jata hai and no asshole bothers to recheck it! Jub checks and balance naa ho yeh haal hota hai!

Are u sure imran khan will rectify this??
 
I have no idea why people are not considering Sahih Bukhari as authentic source and conversely questioning me as an arrogant fellow !
When you quote the Sahih Bukhari, you say its an authentic source. When we quote it, you start making up excuses as to why we are wrong, even though we are quoting the EXACT SAME hadith and it CLEARLY says 'theft and murder', and not 'blasphemy'.
 
When you quote the Sahih Bukhari, you say its an authentic source. When we quote it, you start making up excuses as to why we are wrong, even though we are quoting the EXACT SAME hadith and it CLEARLY says 'theft and murder', and not 'blasphemy'.

There are multiple sources thats why all the confusion.
 
I have no idea why people are not considering Sahih Bukhari as authentic source and conversely questioning me as an arrogant fellow !! :lol:
Let me explain in simple terms NOTHING goes against Quran! If it does it is thrown away! Now you insisting on the opposite is sheer arrogance!
This guy's hadiths have very good narrative evidence of Prophets companions. If this guy's hadiths are not correct Islamic scholars would have denounced his writings long ago.
1) no one calls them AUTHENTIC - THAT title goes to Quran ONLY!
2) They are a reference guide ONLY not the main book (Quran is the main book) ! No one takes it the otherway round hence any mistake(s) in the hadith is blamed on the hadith not on Islam .....
3) The guy COLLECTED THEM...He traced people whom he "heard" had some hadith and he traced the people and wrote the narrators...He didnt have 100% resources to validate hence why behind his book it is written if any hadith contradicts the Quran throw it away...EVEN HE doesnt want any responsibility of such crap which you love to quote!
4) He wasnt a Muhadith...He was a collector not a varifier! Hadith verification is a science that is being advanced every now and then and one NEEDS to be learned in the Science to be considered a Muhadith!
I think you are missing my point of torture ordered by Prophet.
The torture part was covered by @TankMan please read his post!



Yes there are rules but people emotions get over and out of control most of the time.
YOU even said that prophet didnt like such and such acts so I told you when the prophet is tolerant about a man peeing in the masjid right after adhaan when people were about to pray in that area and he didnt allow anyone to harm to people than how can you utter from arrogance and ignorance?

There are multiple sources thats why all the confusion.
No there are ignorant people who highlight the wrong parts and think they have found a diamond mine..Just see how he quoted and what he highlighted and how the murder part was ignored in his highlight like he didnt find that a reason to punish anyone!
 
Then why does pakistan have death penalty in the constitution??
And a majority of other muslim majority nations??

Reason for that?
Reason for that is that it was written and amended by people who had wrong interpretations and ideas, along with (probably) political motive behind doing it. It is wrong.
And you are wrong about 'majority of Muslim nations'. It is not the majority, not by far.

''out of 54 Muslim-majority countries in the world, at most 5 permit capital punishment for blasphemy. They are Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, the United Arab Emirates, and possibly Afghanistan (the new Afghan constitution incorporates human rights norms that could affect statutes treating blasphemy as a capital crime).''
Only 5 states have tough blasphemy laws - thenews.com.pk

Aside from that, countries like Nigeria, Sudan and Somalia have apostasy laws and some have really relaxed blasphemy laws (similar to hate speech laws in the west).
 
No there are ignorant people who highlight the wrong parts and think they have found a diamond mine..Just see how he quoted and what he highlighted and how the murder part was ignored in his highlight like he didnt find that a reason to punish anyone!

I don't go into religious topics sadly.
Atheist to the core:devil:
 

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