IRIAF Vs. PAF

[Manticore]

Sir, If you just want to compare airforces with numbers and tech, then you will get the computer generated answer via probability.

Both airforces are defensive in doctrine.

What exactly is the comparison regarding?

Hypothetical situations?

At the end of the day, numbers are just numbers. Jazba is just Jazba.


I would like your input regarding this since you are far more knowledgeable regarding our air force than me. Which is a shame, since my father served in the PAF.

But I would like to know this. What is the criteria that we are drawing this comparison in?

Hi! I am not the OP of the thread, however as the member was new I moved the thread in appropriate section and informed members regarding vs thread protocols.

We are discussing some criteria of questions to be used while starting vs threads -- and @Neptune might start a comparison of two non enemy airforces once the questions are agreed upon -- that might be a model which might be used in future vs threads


I was expecting the members to post what radar upgrades etc were done on the tomcats etc or if they have standoff capability etc as I've posted some pointers in my 2nd post in this thread regarding paf and would have loved reciprocal response from members from iran.

 

[Manticore]

we also have Mig-29 which have no equivalent in PAF .

@haman10

based on range, payload, bvr, radar, generation... WHAT?? These kind of one liners without data to back it dont increase the quality of discussions

 

[FNFAL]

Irans needs to get agile BVR missile to the like of the aim120 /R77s..launch and leave...and cope with high g evasive actions.The phoenix wont cut it .Once done the F14s and F4 become relevant threats

 

[The SC]

I couldn't help but to jump in. The ONLY thing in your post that sounds accurate is the first line, "the thread is childish". Allow me to correct you:
1) The F-14 was NEVER replaced by the F-22. It was replaced by the F-18A Hornet, later version became Super Hornet. The F-22 replaced the higher tier of the US air force....aka, the F-15.
2) The F-14 is old and so is the F-16....how so? How many F-14's (outside of Iran) are being used as a front line fighter vs. the F-16's?? There are OVER 4000 -16's serving in primarily all Western and some Eastern air force. The -16 is a pain in the rear to go against. Whether you sit in an F-14 or an F-15 or an F-18. Pilots despise the event where they have to face the -16. I think you can find some references here on this site too. The F-16 is one of the VERY few HIGHLY Modernized planes since its inception. It started service after simulating dog fights against 69 USAF and USN jets and it won EVERY SINGLE of them. Anyway, you got the point. The F-14 was a heavy carrier interceptor later converted into very limited multirole capability but it was designed pre-jet computing. The F-16 was one of the first aircrafts to have a mathematical DX-4 coprocessor that could do over millions of calculations per second. This was in the early 70's. While the F-14 had virtually no room for redesign and upgrades due to USN only requirements.
Phoenix missile has good range, but look up its kill ratio. This was the first gen BVR missile. Put this against AMRAAM...you have no chance of recording a kill as AMRAAM won't let you evade anywhere unless you decided to eject knowing the only option left!
A plane that the manufacturer decided not to overhaul anymore (the F-14), how did you guys enhance it? By putting Russian equipment in, doesn't mean overhaul. It means modification and even that in the sense of putting a patch in. The equipment is old and outdated as hell.
Your pilots trained in Top Gun in the late 70's I think. The tactics, weapons, training, planes, technology all change almost every decade. So good luck with that old combat training. I am sure it was well worth it for the purpose and time it was given.

Lastly, if it wasn't for the whole region's destabilization, the Israelis would've patrolled your airspace like they go over Gaza. of course you guys have heavily invested in the air defense but the Israelis were ready to accept a few losses. So that's reality that they can established air dominance within the Iranian airspace.
Now getting to Pakistan, they have a very professional, well trained and experienced air force. They would probably eat IRAF's lunch and then come back to take the dinner away too.
You are forgetting strong AEW - AWACS capability, multiple top line BVR platforms that are MUCH different and advanced then Phoenix. Integrated battle space management Radars, UAC's SAMs all working together. Their standoff weapons, meaning they don't even need to come inside your territory a whole lot. If they keep a 200 mile area bogged down with standoff munitions to over 60-100 miles from the border, what are you going to do? Chase a ghost q00 miles away??
Bad topic and unjust comparison.

So why the US did not attack Iran, if it was that weak ? Please enlighten us.
And, your comment for the reason why Israel did not attack Iran is, the least to say, a false statement, since it is a very known fact that Israel seeks to destabilize the region day and night, but it was stopped in its tracks by the Iranian military might and others.
Further more, an attack on Iran by anyone, including the US will have unbearable consequences not solely for the attacking wannabes but for other countries far beyond the region, and unsustainable losses due to the massive, linked and coordinated Iranian air defense systems with early warning radars. The Iranian fighter jets will do the cleanup of what remains of the attacking warplanes. and retaliate instantaneously be it on the US warships, bases or on Israel itself, making it suffer the heaviest and most unsustainable losses in its fake history. These are the facts that held the US and Israel from attacking Iran.
This holds for everyone else in the region and beyond, so, as far as Pakistan and Iran are concerned, their armies are not made to fight each other, rather they are most complementary in the region, hence one should add both military mights and see the exponential effect.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Irans needs to get agile BVR missile to the like of the aim120 /R77s..launch and leave...and cope with high g evasive actions.The phoenix wont cut it .Once done the F14s and F4 become relevant threats

F-4 is no threat, F-14 is a heavy class fighter but the missiles are the game changer, SD-10 and AIM-120 can finish the job easily of iranian aircrafts. No point for iran to get R77 when their aircrafts radar systems are unsupportive apart from that r-77 can be integrated with mig-29 only rest are western aircrafts with below decent radar accept for F-14 but it is too old of a system.

 

[FNFAL]

F-4 is no threat, F-14 is a heavy class fighter but the missiles are the game changer, SD-10 and AIM-120 can finish the job easily of iranian aircrafts. No point for iran to get R77 when their aircrafts radar systems are unsupportive apart from that r-77 can be integrated with mig-29 only rest are western aircrafts with below decent radar accept for F-14 but it is too old of a system

I wouldnt write off the F4. They are getting new radars,rwr from china.They too can get their hands on PL10s.
WVR, the f16/jf17 would definitely out-turn the f4..however, the f4 pilot, knowing that the f4 has a better perfo in the vertical , may thrust up,engage the smaller aircraft and dive like mad back to the deck..
The case is similar for f14s as well

Your observation on r77 is correct.The mig29 they have is of 'A' designation ...no r77s untill they upgrade their radar.But again, a chinese upgrade may not be an impossible task..which paves the way for PL10s again.

My post missed should have mentioned that iran needs to upgrade their aircrafts avionics..they had a chance withe the hesa f5 clone..but i see no progress in that department.AS correctly mentioned by you and stressed by me, the missiles are the game changers. The absence of a credible BVR dogfighting missile is a glaring mistake that IRAF must resolve

 

[The SC]

The Awacs option was replaced by The Iranian long range UAVs and drones, it it is less expansive and a very efficient move, since these UAVs can stay 24 hours in the air at very high altitudes.
What about the Qaher-313? Recently some videos have emerged on youtube of some international aviation hobbyists testing the design of the fighter aircraft, they all came to the conclusion that it is a very swift and potent design, or even one of the best in flight.
Here is an example:

When Iran will have hundreds of this small but yet powerful stealth fighter that can fly at very low altitudes, high altitudes and conduct air to air and air to surface combat operations, making it a multi-role modern stealth fighter aircraft, and in my opinion Iran will have them, since they will be inexpensive to produce yet having high tech equipments and technologies required for modern fighter aircrafts, then the Iranian Air force will become a too powerful air force for anyone to take on, not speaking about one of the densest of integrated air defenses in the world as we speak.
My opinion is based on the proven design of the Qaher-313 and the technologies available to Iran from Iranian scientist and the technology assets they already hold from foreign acquisitions, not even mentioning the help they might get from other countries, if they need the most modern components. With this said, this Iranian Qaher-313 will become an additional very persuasive deterrent factor in the Iranian defense doctrine.

They already have this fifth generation of AlSaeqeh

And this

 

[FunkyGen]

Also , Air Force capabilities rely on Air defences and UAV fleet too lets compare that now

Even if we dont have any fighter , still we can manage to contain and control / defeat any possible air threat from pakistan super effectively .

but pakistan cannot do anything with a bunch of french crotale missile launchers

about UAV fleet , i'm speech-less

Fotros :

Does it fly? I mean no offence but would like a video or two, I'm kinda interested in it.

 

[Neptune]

Hi! I am not the OP of the thread, however as the member was new I moved the thread in appropriate section and informed members regarding vs thread protocols.

We are discussing some criteria of questions to be used while starting vs threads -- and @Neptune might start a comparison of two non enemy airforces once the questions are agreed upon -- that might be a model which might be used in future vs threads


I was expecting the members to post what radar upgrades etc were done on the tomcats etc or if they have standoff capability etc as I've posted some pointers in my 2nd post in this thread regarding paf and would have loved reciprocal response from members from iran.

Definitely. I will join to discussion very soon.

 

[The SC]

Iranian air to air missiles inventory, you should add all the iranian made upgraded versions:

BVRAAM 870 AAM: 100 R-27/AA-10 Alamo (For MiG-29), 280 AIM-54A Phoenix (For F-14A), 430 AIM-7E Sparrow (For F-4E and F-4D), 60 AIM-7C Sparrow,
AA-12 (on order)

SRAAM 2950+ AAM: 300 R-73/AA-11 Archer (For MiG-29), 400 R-60/AA-8 Aphid (For MiG-29 and Su-24), 360 PL-7 (For F-7), 1270 AIM-9J Sidewinder (For F-4E, F-14A and F-5E), 200 AIM-9L Sidewinder, 200 AIM-9E Sidewinder (For F-4D), 20 AIM-9B Sidewinder-1A (For F-5A), 200 AIM-4D Falcon (For F-4D)

Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) • یروی هوایی ارتش جمهوری اسلامی ایران / XAIRFORCES

 

[Informant]

The Awacs option was replaced by The Iranian long range UAVs and drones, it it is less expansive and a very efficient move, since these UAVs can stay 24 hours in the air at very high altitudes.
What about the Qaher-313? Recently some videos have emerged on youtube of some international aviation hobbyists testing the design of the fighter aircraft, they all came to the conclusion that it is a very swift and potent design, or even one of the best in flight.
Here is an example:

When Iran will have hundreds of this small but yet powerful stealth fighter that can fly at very low altitudes, high altitudes and conduct air to air and air to surface combat operations, making it a multi-role modern stealth fighter aircraft, and in my opinion Iran will have them, since they will be inexpensive to produce yet having high tech equipments and technologies required for modern fighter aircrafts, then the Iranian Air force will become a too powerful air force for anyone to take on, not speaking about one of the densest of integrated air defenses in the world as we speak.
My opinion is based on the proven design of the Qaher-313 and the technologies available to Iran from Iranian scientist and the technology assets they already hold from foreign acquisitions, not even mentioning the help they might get from other countries, if they need the most modern components. With this said, this Iranian Qaher-313 will become an additional very persuasive deterrent factor in the Iranian defense doctrine.

They already have this fifth generation of AlSaeqeh

And this

Qaher 313 or much less design on papers? Please. I dont wanna bicker but keep nationalism aside and stop being hurt. This is a mature discussion. Saeqah 5th Generation? Are you sure this 3rd generation plane is 5th Gen? What Radar does it use? What are it's missile system? How many are built? Saeqah in the picture was just a modified twin tailed F-5. Not your own indigenous design.

Please Qaher is not a reality, you guys do not have an engine to support it. You guys do not have the Radar absorption technology nor do you guys have the weapon system. Please dont bring this topic into further disrepute like this hamam10 guy does.

Fact is IRIAF is weak to say the least compared to PAF. End of.

View attachment 23013

Aero need higher res for my background

 

[Kompromat]

Qaher 313 or much less design on papers? Please. I dont wanna bicker but keep nationalism aside and stop being hurt. This is a mature discussion. Saeqah 5th Generation? Are you sure this 3rd generation plane is 5th Gen? What Radar does it use? What are it's missile system? How many are built? Saeqah in the picture was just a modified twin tailed F-5. Not your own indigenous design.

Please Qaher is not a reality, you guys do not have an engine to support it. You guys do not have the Radar absorption technology nor do you guys have the weapon system. Please dont bring this topic into further disrepute like this hamam10 guy does.

Fact is IRIAF is weak to say the least compared to PAF. End of.



Aero need higher res for my background

This is all i have got for now - you can take it to paint and increase its dimensions slightly

Try this.

 

[Informant]

This is all i have got for now - you can take it to paint and increase its dimensions slightly

Try this.

View attachment 23032​

That plane banking at that angle is about to go BOOM!

 

[Manticore]

Iranian air to air missiles inventory, you should add all the iranian made upgraded versions:

BVRAAM 870 AAM: 100 R-27/AA-10 Alamo (For MiG-29), 280 AIM-54A Phoenix (For F-14A), 430 AIM-7E Sparrow (For F-4E and F-4D), 60 AIM-7C Sparrow,
AA-12 (on order)

SRAAM 2950+ AAM: 300 R-73/AA-11 Archer (For MiG-29), 400 R-60/AA-8 Aphid (For MiG-29 and Su-24), 360 PL-7 (For F-7), 1270 AIM-9J Sidewinder (For F-4E, F-14A and F-5E), 200 AIM-9L Sidewinder, 200 AIM-9E Sidewinder (For F-4D), 20 AIM-9B Sidewinder-1A (For F-5A), 200 AIM-4D Falcon (For F-4D)

Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force (IRIAF) • یروی هوایی ارتش جمهوری اسلامی ایران / XAIRFORCES

When were these individual long range missile types manufactured and what are their respective shelf lives

 

[Informant]

@Aeronaut

Got better resolution + More pics from the catalog.