IRIAF | News and Discussions

[SalarHaqq]

Two-Three squadrons can be wiped out relatively quickly. Go see how many fighter jets Russia lost in the air and on the ground in Ukraine and that is while avoiding major enemy air defenses near frontline operations.

If your opponent is Israel or USA, then assuming you can keep 24-36 safe for 12+ months is beyond optimistic it’s borderline foolish.

Iran ordered 80 F-14’s in 1970’s for comparison.

A war against the USA is not supposed to last >12 months. Iran's strategy is geared to produce deterrence by making the initial clash too costly for the enemy (politically, financially, militarily).

In this framework, a limited number of Su-35 squadrons will do the trick.

As for the zionist regime, it does not have the means for a protracted conflict with Iran considering the geographic distance and the zionists' comparatively small arsenals, their inability to project sufficient manpower and so on.

So far we got 2 Yak-130’s. I’d wait till the S-35 land in Iran before declaring Russia a changed person.

Let me bookmark this statement if you will.

Iranian-Russian ties underwent a deep transformation over the past couple of years independently of present and upcoming fighter jet supplies anyway.

But fact remains, several users issued multiple comments that Iran did not place any such orders and that Moscow isn't going to supply any military aircraft. This turned out to be inaccurate regardless of numbers and types of jets. Intellectual integrity would command acknowledgement of these baseless predictions.

Last but not least, as long as close to half the levers of power in Iran are controlled by notoriously western-apologetic and maniacally Russophobic liberal factions (reformists / moderates, with Fa'eze Rafsanjani and the like openly siding with Kiev in the ongoing war), Russia is absolutely right not to go the extra extra extra mile. What if said liberals more or less monopolize power or manage to have their way on strategic dossiers in future (e.g. and zabānam lāl, after the current Supreme Leader (h.A.))? Our Russian brothers already granted Iran more benefits than one could have expected considering the mentioned circumstance - not least by providing Iranian companies tariff-free access to extensive Russian markets, a colossal opportunity even China has been refused to date.

 

[WudangMaster]

Two or three squadrons would cover the needs in terms of complementing Iran's extensive IADS in the airborne interception department. Which would square with PeeD's assessment.

I think He stated 4-6 squadrons at a minimum to complement the National Air Defense Grid and ideally it should be twice at least, with some acting as reverse engineering labs and reserve forces.

 

[Muhammed45]

Two or three squadrons would cover the needs in terms of complementing Iran's extensive IADS in the airborne interception department. Which would square with PeeD's assessment.



Well, transfer of technology or not, fact remains that Iran ordered fighter jets from Russia and Russia made good on its duty to supply them. This already invalidates countless posts in this thread claiming otherwise. Perhaps time has come for everyone to come to terms with and acknowledge this simple reality.

The new era in Iranian-Russian relations is here, and it is of a strategic quality.

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Most definitely brother, most definitely.

Which is why when Hashemi Rafsanjani lashed out at President Bashar al-Assad, including but not limited to accusing him of employing WMD "against his own people", thus echoing NATO propaganda and fabrications, and encouraged his protégé Rohani to try and undermine Iran's strategic alliance with Syria, he clearly played into the enemy's agenda which consists in seeking to disrupt the Axis of Resistance as a sinister prelude to coming for Iran herself.

Characterize this standpoint as you may, but it certainly has nothing much patriotic to it seeing how it is decidedly in variance with Iran's core national interest and security. Which brings me to the question of those Iranians, including a couple users on this forum, who support and advertise the reformist / moderate bloc. You may consider yourself patriotic even while lacking sympathy for the Islamic nature of the Iranian government, true, but you cannot logically do so while whitewashing in-house liberal factions i.e. obfuscating their agenda's submissiveness to the zio-American empire, as well as the threat this represents for Iran's stability. Those who are having issues with Iran's religious democracy but think of themselves as patriots or nationalists, should therefore seriously think twice before backing political parties deprived of any patriotic credentials, whose program serves but the enemy's goals.

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It stands to reason that these acquisitions were not financed through the yearly budget granted to the IRIAF, but through other sources. A point I raised some time ago in response to a certain nagger who cited the IRIAF budget as supposed "proof" that Iran has "not" placed any fighter jet order with the Russian Federation.

With no doubt you are our ideological leader. No one can change that.

The liberal front has no future in Iran since their ideology will die when west declines. I never worry about them. People like Rafsanjani(s), Mousavi, M. Rajavi, Bani Sadr, Khatami and others are always hated by majority of Iranians. We know that interests of Islam and Iran are connected and aligned with each and are inseparable. And Iranian laws always follows Islamic rules. Again, no one can change that too.

I guess Iran has some plans for 5th generation aircrafts too. With this specific purchase, they have had an eye on developing and/or purchasing a radar evading platform.

 

[TheImmortal]

I think He stated 4-6 squadrons at a minimum to complement the National Air Defense Grid and ideally it should be twice at least, with some acting as reverse engineering labs and reserve forces.

You are correct. @SalarHaqq memory is slipping or he is trying to project false information to hedge in case only a lower number of SU-35’s being delivered.

 

[SalarHaqq]

You are correct. @SalarHaqq memory is slipping or he is trying to project false information to hedge in case only a lower number of SU-35’s being delivered.

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So which is it, my memory slipping or me deliberately giving false numbers for whatever fictitious reason? Make up your mind. Truth is I had not remembered well (you don't seriously believe I'm stupid to the point of lying about something which can be verified through a simple search, do you?).

This said, PeeD's preferred figure of 60 is still below your "72 at least", which in a way upholds my point nonetheless. Also, if fewer Su-35 are supplied it'll most probably be because Iran ordered fewer ones. So nice try, but your little jab falls flat either way.

Some people here have been going out of their way assuring that Russia won't be delivering anything, now that they've been proven flat out wrong they switch to alternate talking points e.g. "this will kill Iran's domestic fighter jet industry", "Yak-130 is no game-changer", "ToT would be ideal but it's nothing more than a wish" or "so far all Iran has received are two Yak-130 trainers" - the latter contention coming from you is pretty rich considering how you yourself in post #10,844 posited that Iran must have procured more (which quite surely will materialize).

I've no problem admitting mistakes, as in the present case of a slight confusion regarding some three year old posts by PeeD. This however cannot be said of a certain other category of users who'll attempt to argue their way out even when their words are put to rest by established facts. And they're doing this for no other reason than caricatural Russophobia, stemming in turn from psychological subjugation by the zio-American empire. Food for thought.

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With no doubt you are our ideological leader. No one can change that.

Humbled by these words, however I harbor no ambitions to lead. In my belief our ideological leaders are, other than Valie Faqih, the modest martyrs - the shahid Fahmide's and those who followed in his blessed footsteps.

Truth be told I had stopped posting in this forum and simply visited from time to time to keep up with military related news (and have a laugh at the input of local oppositionists)... until you tagged me recently in some other thread. I felt I owe you a reply.

The liberal front has no future in Iran since their ideology will die when west declines. I never worry about them. People like Rafsanjani(s), Mousavi, M. Rajavi, Bani Sadr, Khatami and others are always hated by majority of Iranians. We know that interests of Islam and Iran are connected and aligned with each and are inseparable. And Iranian laws always follows Islamic rules. Again, no one can change that too.

Admirable optimism, and at the end of the day I too believe victory will be with the revolutionary front. However to me in-house liberals represent more than a mere nuisance, I consider them highly dangerous for Iran's future.

Yes, you can literally sense how they're panicking as the hegemony of their NATO masters keeps crumbling at the global scale, and as Islamic Iran boosts strategic level cooperation with Russia, China and other emerging powers as well as the global south.

I guess Iran has some plans for 5th generation aircrafts too. With this specific purchase, they have had an eye on developing and/or purchasing a radar evading platform.

Iranian indigenous fighter development will go on regardless of present acquisitions from Russia. In particular I'm quite certain that this won't affect the Kosar program since they are two different classes of aircraft with complementary roles. It's the ideal stop gap measure, and exactly what I had hoped for.

 

[TheImmortal]

Truth is I had not remembered well (you don't seriously believe I'm stupid to the point of lying about something which can be verified through a simple search, do you?).

If it’s so simple why didn’t you do the search? I’m surprised since you of all are very meticulous when finding old posts to use as justification/evidence. This is very unlike you.

This said, PeeD's preferred figure of 60 is still below your "72 at least", which in a way upholds my point nonetheless.

He said also said 4-6 squadrons. A squadron typically holds 12-24 fighter jets with an average of 18. So let’s go with the average: 4-6 squadrons amounts to 72-108 aircraft.

60 would be the minimum amount needed to take stress off the IADS against a major airpower such as US. Against Azeribajian or another weaker theoretical enemy than the number of course drops.

I should add that India has 250+ SU-30, for context.

Also, if fewer Su-35 are supplied it'll most probably be because Iran ordered fewer ones. So nice try, but your little jab falls flat either way.

“Probably”. Based on what evidence do you cite this?

Iran can only order as much as Russia is willing to provide. After all 24-36 SU-35’s will stir up alot less of a geopolitical hornets nest from its other economic/political “allies” (Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, PG states) than 100 SU-35.

Some people here have been going out of their way assuring that Russia won't be delivering anything,

Only person I know who has been really negative on that is Hack-Hook. Every else has been cautiously optimistic, which is understandable given the amount of rumors that have swirled in the past and Russian-Iranian arms deal in a historical context.

now that they've been proven flat out wrong they switch to alternate talking points e.g. "this will kill Iran's domestic fighter jet industry", "Yak-130 is no game-changer", "ToT would be ideal but it's nothing more than a wish" or "so far all Iran has received are two Yak-130 trainers" - the latter contention coming from you is pretty rich considering how you yourself in post #10,844 posited that Iran must have procured more (which quite surely will materialize).

Yes, I been cautiously optimistic. I was the first person (or one of the first) to post the SU-35 recent round of rumors months ago, along with the rumors (at the time) Russia was going to purchase Iranian drones.

At the time many people called it fake news, even though both Western intelligence agencies and a couple of Twitter OSINT called it.

And they're doing this for no other reason than caricatural Russophobia, stemming in turn from psychological subjugation by the zio-American empire. Food for thought.

Again other than hack, I’m not sure who this group of individuals that hates SU-35 are.

You can’t blame the users for being cautiously optimistic and lump those same users in with the people who think that Iran should buy Chinese fighter jets or only build from within using domestic capabilities.

 

[SalarHaqq]

He said also said 4-6 squadrons. A squadron typically holds 12-24 fighter jets with an average of 18. So let’s go with the average: 4-6 squadrons amounts to 72-108 aircraft.

60 would be the minimum amount needed to take stress off the IADS against a major airpower such as US. Against Azeribajian or another weaker theoretical enemy than the number of course drops.

They explicitly spoke of 60 units, which pretty much implies they were not thinking of up to 108 aircraft.

What's more, they explicitly stated Iran ought not buy more than 60 Flankers.

https://pdf.defence.pk/threads/iran-is-preparing-to-buy-new-weapons-bbc.629321/post-11667297

I should add that India has 250+ SU-30, for context.

India has different adversaries, is characterized by different parameters and has thus developed a different military doctrine, one which calls for a numerically larger air force compared to Iran.

“Probably”. Based on what evidence do you cite this?

Based on what evidence will you deny it?

My assumption is grounded in circumstantial indicators i.e. political context, as well as known Iranian arms procurement policy.

Iran can only order as much as Russia is willing to provide. After all 24-36 SU-35’s will stir up alot less of a geopolitical hornets nest from its other economic/political “allies” (Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, PG states) than 100 SU-35.

If Russia put a cap on numbers so restrictive as to make the investment operationally worthless to Iran, then Iran would not have placed the order.

The air force is not exactly a branch Iran will set aside spare money to spend on at will or for questionable acquisitions (read too few jets), so if they procure new airframes it's that they're perfectly confident in the utility of their investment. It's either maximum value for money or no deal, while the overarching emphasis will remain on cost effectiveness under all circumstances (too voluminous an order implies drain on resources, reduced cost effectiveness).

Here too PeeD's above quoted posts reflect the outlook pretty well. It's dubitable Iran would even remotely envisage purchasing as many as a hundred top of the line Flankers considering the cost associated with such an undertaking, and the manner in which Iran distributes priorities in accordance with her missile-centric defence doctrine.

As for the Russians, they're not going to let themselves dictate what amount of weaponry to sell to whom by the likes of Turkey or PGCC member states. The latter do not wield this sort of leverage on Moscow and there are no precedents to this effect. The zionists used to, but that has been compromised to a significant degree since the outbreak of the conflict in Ukraine.

Financial gain (quite significant in its own right for the Russian arms industry at this point) is not the only criterion presiding over Russia's decision to supply Iran with modern fighter jets and/or trainers - geostrategic imperatives play a part as well. Moscow understands the importance of having Iran's back, seeing how the Islamic Republic happens to be the only power to share Russia's position against NATO in a key region of the world, against the backdrop of unprecedented tensions between the western bloc and the Russian Federation. So it's safe to postulate Iran will be able to obtain a hundred Su-35 if she so chooses, which however is unlikely for the reasons expounded upon.

Again other than hack, I’m not sure who this group of individuals that hates SU-35 are.

Not that they necessarily hate the Su-35, but that they questioned Russian readiness to sell or to honor an already signed contract.

You can’t blame the users for being cautiously optimistic and lump those same users in with the people who think that Iran should buy Chinese fighter jets or only build from within using domestic capabilities.

There were nuances in the opinions expressed, but the fact remains that more than a user has been contradicted in one form or another by the recent Yak-130 delivery. Yet none (except for Flotilla) has been willing to face it openly thus far. No point citing names, this is a general observation not an ad hominem effort. It's also an invitation to rethink long held prejudices vis à vis Russia.

 

[HGV]

2 Yak-130 training jets painted in Indian colours land in Iran after years of negotiations and Salar is doing a victory lap lol

 

[SalarHaqq]

2 Yak-130 training jets painted in Indian colours land in Iran after years of negotiations and Salar is doing a victory lap lol

Gratuitous assertion deprived of evidence.

Naturally you're free to mourn this event, and to believe these are the only aircraft Iran has or will be receiving. Not that we expected otherwise.

With regards to the paint scheme: wow, what an argument, what erudition! We're deeply impressed.

 

[LegionnairE]

I totally agree with you and my second reply concerning that engine was only related to a claim, that two AI-222-25 fit to whatever fighter would result in a fighter comparable or in the same class like the Pakistani JF-17 Thunder, which IMO it surely cannot be.
But for a jet-trainer it is totally sufficient.

It will be the most modern aircraft in IRIAF arsenal for a while, it's hard to imagine it being used strictly for training lol.

My guess is that we'll see it launching ATGMs and ALCMs in no time. But it doesn't need an afterburner for that either.

I came here expecting a discussion on how to integrate iranian weapons on a Russian platform, instead we're discussing kinematic performance why?

 

[HGV]

Gratuitous assertion deprived of evidence.

Naturally you're free to mourn this event, and to believe these are the only aircraft Iran has or will be receiving. Not that we expected otherwise.

With regards to the paint scheme: wow, what an argument, what erudition! We're deeply impressed.

If you call laughing at you for celebrating Russia selling Iran 2 trainer jets like they just provided TOT to Su-57 mourning then sure, I'm mourning

Don't forget to shout jai hind! when you see the 2 Indian trainer jets your master generously provided to you

 

[SalarHaqq]

If you call laughing at you for celebrating Russia selling Iran 2 trainer jets like they just provided TOT to Su-57 mourning then sure, I'm mourning

Substantiate with evidence, that two trainers is all Russia has sold Iran in the framework of this deal. The most pronounced skeptics did not subscribe to such an improbable assumption. You are isolated in your delusions.

Don't forget to shout jai hind! when you see the 2 Indian trainer jets your master generously provided to you

Does your perception happen to be impaired and clouded by narcotics?

 

[Hack-Hook]

In other words you admit to not possessing the ethical integrity of acknowledging the blatant falsehood of the bogus prediction you've literally been plastering this thread with countless times, with respect to Russian delivery of military jet aircraft to Iran.

And instead, come up with a strawman to change the subject. Exactly as predicted. This is because facts do not concern you, Russophobic propaganda does owing to your pro-western, empire-submissive ideology.

You were wrong, made claims which turned out to to be incorrect and therefore your credibility has completely gone down the drain.

Even a NATO-supporting forum member such as Deino recognized how a mea culpa on your part is due, seeing that they reacted to my corresponding response with a 'like'. You're attempting to be more Catholic than the Pope in your obsessive defence of western regime interests, which is pitiful.

"Another avro arrow cf-105 in making"

sadly if you were honest enough to refer to all of my prediction.
i said if we import these junks from Russia all our aviation industry will be jeopardized . as importing microprocessor from Russia did the same with our newborn chip design endeavor.
but what you are a person with an agenda or you are a person who don't knew history of Avro arrow cf-105 or a person who don't knew intricacy of Persian literature and language .
in all cases it show who have no ethical integrity. as in first case it show you are ready to sacrifice the truth for personal gain and in second case it show you are willing to make posts about things you knew nothing of and you are not willing to look the matter up and in third case it show you are faking the identity of being Iranian out side Iran

 

[SalarHaqq]

sadly if you were honest enough to refer to all of my prediction.
i said if we import these junks from Russia all our aviation industry will be jeopardized . as importing microprocessor from Russia did the same with our newborn chip design endeavor.
but what you are a person with an agenda or you are a person who don't knew history of Avro arrow cf-105 or a person who don't knew intricacy of Persian literature and language .
in all cases it show who have no ethical integrity. as in first case it show you are ready to sacrifice the truth for personal gain and in second case it show you are willing to make posts about things you knew nothing of and you are not willing to look the matter up and in third case it show you are faking the identity of being Iranian out side Iran

No, all it demonstrates is that you will change the subject when at disadvantage in a debate, using rhetoric fallacies like the above. This behaviour bears the hallmarks of an agenda-driven propagandist structurally recalcitrant about acknowledging the falsehood of their statements even in the face of hard facts and concrete proof.

To recap: you literally filled this thread with countless posts claiming explicitly Iran did not order any military aircraft from Russia, and that if she did, Russia will not deliver. You are even on the record for pretending you "really hoped" Russia would supply fighters to Iran, but that your hope was dashed by Moscow's unwillingness to sell. Now that it's been established Russia effectively did as much, you're switching to a wholly different narrative about how this will supposedly affect Iran's domestic aircraft development in a negative way.

An honest person would first admit to their mistaken predictions, and then only would they go on to rant about impact on domestic industries. Although in your case, you wouldn't even be entitled to this since you clearly suggested you had "hoped" Russia would sell Iran fighter jets. So the expected honest reaction to the recent news would consist in expressions of joy.

Yes, you had previously made the assertion that Iran would stop producing Kosars if the Su-35 were to be imported, and I never denied it (just don't pass this off as "truth", it's simply your subjective speculation for now, which I for one definitely do not believe in). But this still means you were wrong on at least two to three other counts. Is it this hard to recognize said fact? You could simply say, "okay, my bad when it comes to Russia selling and supplying jets to Iran, nonetheless I think it's no good idea for this and that reason", much like I didn't hesitate a second to admit my memory didn't serve me well regarding the ideal numbers of Flankers as per user PeeD. If you did this, I wouldn't have anything to complain about. But because you don't, I feel you're insulting my intelligence, especially since it was you quoting me first.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

if, if, if ... Russia neded years to find a substitute for the AI-222-25, so far NO substitute for the -25F variant with afterburner since it does not need one simply since the Yak-130 cannot use such an engine and some here are already dreaming as if Iran could get them for free, they could power whatever type ranging from jet-trainers, fighters to civil airliners ... wait, wait if something will happen, WHEN it will and if then it would fit!

Nonsense.

Afterburners are nothing special as those are not critical to functioning of jet engines.