IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

Azerbaijan = Turkey

if you think turkey come to war with Iran if Iran decide to give a lesson to Azerbaijan you will see how wrong you are

There's no way Kowsar can carry the amount of air to air missiles F14 can carry so more firepower, and better kinematic performance means better launch parameters for long range missiles, better chance for evading incoming missiles etc. It's always important, not just in a dogfight.

Reduced RCS of Gripen sounds nice but you can do that without losing performance. Like in F22 and TFX

8 missile grippen can carry more
f16 can carry more

speed f14 top speed is only 300km more than those airplanes

the problem with f-5 was its radar and low engine power , those problem were solved in f-20

by the way are you aware that F-18 is based on the same Platform that f-5 is based on which is N-156

this image is an interesting image to show why f-5 design is more suitable for development and tinkering with than f-14

 

[LegionnairE]

if you think turkey come to war with Iran if Iran decide to give a lesson to Azerbaijan you will see how wrong you are

I'm just saying that you will have to learn Turkish because Iran as a state will cease to exist. But don't worry, Iranians are very much used to being ruled by Turks, even now the Supreme leader of Iran is an ethnic Turk. You'll adapt.

8 missile grippen can carry more
f16 can carry more

speed f14 top speed is only 300km more than those airplanes

the problem with f-5 was its radar and low engine power , those problem were solved in f-20

by the way are you aware that F-18 is based on the same Platform that f-5 is based on which is N-156

this image is an interesting image to show why f-5 design is more suitable for development and tinkering with than f-14

No matter what you do, F-14 will always be able to carry a bigger and more powerful radar than Kowsar, and more missiles. Most importantly, the missile carried by F-14 is the much heavier AIM-54 Phoenix. Kowsar can't compete with that.

Do you realize that F-18E carries TWO of the gripen's F-414 engines? Kowsar is not in the same league as F-18.

Look, if Iran builds a homemade F-18 with some Russian engines I'm fine with that too

 

[TheImmortal]

this image is an interesting image to show why f-5 design is more suitable for development and tinkering with than f-14

Stop this nonsense. Only reason Iran builds F-5 is become lack of titanium in its airframe. F-14 has high titanium in its airframe. Iran has yet to reveal it can build titanium airframes which nearly every 4th to 5th Gen fighter has significant amounts.

The only reason Turkey (TFX) can build its jet is because it had to purchase a world’s largest metal 3D printer from a major US company to do it! And get them to optimize it!

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) purchased the world’s largest electron beam metal 3D printer, the EBAM 300 series from Sciaky, Inc. to print parts for its future TF-X fifth-generation domestic fighter jet.

The contract between TAI and Sciaky also includes collaboration on a series of projects aimed at optimizing TAI’s use of the EBAM machine and its technology.

The EBAM machine will be destined for TAI’s plant in Ankara, Turkey, where it will 3D print some of the largest titanium aerostructures in the industry. The machine will be able to print structures up to 6 meters long by 2 meters wide and 1.8 meters high, with deposition rates will exceed 20 kg of metal per hour.

Future TF-X fighter jet to be built with 3D-printed parts | Aviacionline

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) purchased the world's largest electron beam metal 3D printer, the EBAM 300 series from Sciaky, Inc. to print parts for its future TF-X fifth-generation domestic fighter jet. Sciaky, Inc. a subsidiary of Phillips Service Industries, Inc. and a leading provider...

www.aviacionline.com

 

[Ich]

lack of titanium

seems solved

Fars | فارس

Fars

www.farsnews.ir

Third Titanium Plant Comes on Stream in Northeast Iran

kayhan.ir

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Kowsar could be made as effective as F-14 by making these choices:
- no automatic cannons on the aircraft.
- new nose for the aircraft to house larger radar.
- new air to air missile that at most is 500lbs in weight.
- with modern manufacturing should allow new AAM an AIM-54 range.
- landing gear on wing removed, lighter wing with fuel storage capacity.
- new landing gear at rear similar to Su-25 or MiG-23 at very least.
- RD-33 equivalent low bypass turbofan without afterburner.
- thus weight comparable to two J85 and length too to J85.
- longer range, endurance and top speed of Mach 2 clean.
- most notable would such able to do super cruise.

 

[Ich]

Kowsar could be made as effective as F-14 by making these choices:
- no automatic cannons on the aircraft.
- new nose for the aircraft to house larger radar.
- new air to air missile that at most is 500lbs in weight.
- with modern manufacturing should allow new AAM an AIM-54 range.
- landing gear on wing removed, lighter wing with fuel storage capacity.
- new landing gear at rear similar to Su-25 or MiG-23 at very least.
- RD-33 equivalent low bypass turbofan without afterburner.
- thus weight comparable to two J85 and length too to J85.
- longer range, endurance and top speed of Mach 2 clean.
- most notable would such able to do super cruise.

sounds like a new aircraft

 

[LegionnairE]

The only reason Turkey (TFX) can build its jet is because it had to purchase a world’s largest metal 3D printer from a major US company to do it! And get them to optimize it!

F-22 was built in an era when 3d Printing wasn't a thing. Obviously, it can be done without it. But it's a nice to have. The final serial production version might not have a substantial number of 3d printed parts. Some 3d Printed parts in the prototype could be CNC machined in the serial production.

 

[SalarHaqq]

the Supreme leader of Iran is an ethnic Turk.

Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution (not simply of Iran) aka Vali ol-'Amre Moslemin is Iranian by ethnicity.

Ethnic Turks live in Central Asia.

Iran as a state will cease to exist.

There's a higher chance that Turkey will be renamed into Kurdey.

 

[tsunset]

What was the Tu bomber version that Russia proposed to Iran after the fall of the USSR during Rasfjani? Tu-22? Tu-16?

These bombers have surely huge RCS but can serve as a platform for Iran to make massive ordnance and use them against militias, also study it and it could have tested aeroballistic missiles and something like Abu Mahdi air-launched from the Persian Gulf since it would become a dead zone for any enemy warship to stay in the PG, the missiles could reach where the US Navy would be launching their tomahawks in the Arabian Sea and lift off their B-2 B-1 and F-35s from Diego Garcia

their carrier F-18 and 4th gen aircrafts they have are destroyable without too much difficulty compared to stealth assets with the air-defense layer (including Bavar which isnt deployed yet), imagining a raid of 70 F-18s and F-15, F-16s they will 100% lose at least more than one of them and that's a minimal number, it would deter them a lot and force them to use other strategies. Iran already have some experience in shutting down latest versions of F-16 and hitting F-15, anti-drone defenses, Israeli/US drones, there should be a forcing that they come with their ground forces inside Iran, somewhere they will be highly in trouble

There have to be the capability of turning Diego Garcia into a parking lot, otherwise the US would launch freely the best assets they have inside Iran

 

[TheImmortal]

seems solved

Fars | فارس

Fars

www.farsnews.ir

Third Titanium Plant Comes on Stream in Northeast Iran

kayhan.ir

It’s not lack of the raw material titanium it is lack of the ability to refine into the required alloys for aerospace and the necessary “ovens” to build the airframes.

Just look at how long it took for carbon fiber engine casing for missiles to be built in Iran.

F-22 was built in an era when 3d Printing wasn't a thing. Obviously, it can be done without it. But it's a nice to have. The final serial production version might not have a substantial number of 3d printed parts. Some 3d Printed parts in the prototype could be CNC machined in the serial production.

Yes, it can be done without, but would require various furnaces and ovens to build the airframes which Turkey would have to import or somehow learn to build. Also various factories to refine titanium into the require grade of alloy for aerospace.

3D printing solves that issue as well importation of the refined metal. And all 5th Gen fighters have substantial titanium for the fuselage. Titanium is the primary alloy to prevent rapid degradation of the airframe from stress.

F-5 is one of the fewer exceptions as it’s airframe has very little and instead uses more composite. This issue plus lack of medium engine is why iran has no domestic fighter program. Russia and China are not reliable partners to build a $10-20B (likely costs are far higher) fighter jet program. They could withhold engines at any time and cripple the program.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Stop this nonsense. Only reason Iran builds F-5 is become lack of titanium in its airframe. F-14 has high titanium in its airframe. Iran has yet to reveal it can build titanium airframes which nearly every 4th to 5th Gen fighter has significant amounts.

and its based on an outdated philosophy

 

[LegionnairE]

Yes, it can be done without, but would require various furnaces and ovens to build the airframes which Turkey would have to import or somehow learn to build. Also various factories to refine titanium into the require grade of alloy for aerospace.

3D printing solves that issue as well importation of the refined metal. And all 5th Gen fighters have substantial titanium for the fuselage. Titanium is the primary alloy to prevent rapid degradation of the airframe from stress.

F-5 is one of the fewer exceptions as it’s airframe has very little and instead uses more composite. This issue plus lack of medium engine is why iran has no domestic fighter program. Russia and China are not reliable partners to build a $10-20B (likely costs are far higher) fighter jet program. They could withhold engines at any time and cripple the program.

though I'm no metallurgist myself and I haven't seen the specs of the 3d printer at TAI, I suspect that a forged, machined titanium part would still be stronger than the 3d printed one. And most parts of TFX will be made of composite anyway.

I'm sure the titanium parts in F-14 can be replaced by parts redesigned for whatever production methods Iran has. The Iranian F-14 would end up being a bit heavier but so be it. %10 heavier F-14 still beats the living shit out of Kowsar.

Sure F-14 is much more complex than F-5 but if Iran was willing to invest enough resources into this, I am %100 sure that it could be done.

 

[Ich]

It’s not lack of the raw material titanium it is lack of the ability to refine into the required alloys for aerospace and the necessary “ovens” to build the airframes.

Hö? This pdf is from MAPNA 2015. So the technics/ovens exists.

https://www.mapnaturbine.com/storage/2020/3/43371584287524751technical%20review-no.3.pdf

Imagine!

A turbine blade made out of Ti super alloy, has to widthstand high shear force, high temperatur, is thin, and have COOLING VANES in it

VS

an air frame part

come on!

 

[Sineva]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655164455066517506

 

[TheImmortal]

Imagine!

A turbine blade made out of Ti super alloy, has to widthstand high shear force, high temperatur, is thin, and have COOLING VANES in it

VS

an air frame part

come on!

Not part. An airframe. That requires large uniform amounts of super alloy grade Ti. It is not easy to build a large amounts of Ti Super Alloy.

The turbine blade for a gas turbine is not pulling 7-9 G’s over and over and over causing stress fractures. If I recall correctly, MANPA has a license for this production gas turbine form seimens no?