IRIAF | News and Discussions

[TheImmortal]

you use this:

Nope.

 

[sha ah]

Russia, China, technology transfers or a domestic project. It's only a matter of time.

explain how you build a helicopter without an engine.

 

[aryobarzan]

Nope.

Can you please elaborate why not..is it size, or power or weight...I am very curious to know.

 

[TheImmortal]

Russia, China

If the Turks under zero sanctions are struggling to find an engine for their attack helicopter what makes you think Russia and China are gonna help Iran?

Right now the focus is on jet engines, micro jet engines (for UAVs and cruise missiles).

Tanks and Helicopters have zero priority. Especially all the Cobras Iran has already. Helicopters won’t survive in a war with US.

Can you please elaborate why not..is it size, or power or weight...I am very curious to know.

It’s that Iran cannot mass produce aeronautical engines at this point in time. Simple as that.

How many Owj engines have been made? How many Kowsar are flying? What happened to National helicopter project? Why was Iranian artesh checking out Russian choppers in Russia recently?

If Iran really could mass produce a helicopter engine or jet engine you would see them making them like hot cakes one after another. Instead efforts have been modernizing fighter Jets and modernizing helicopters.

 

[sha ah]

Well Turks aren't being sanctioned like Iran however Germany is refusing to sell them spare parts for their Leopard 2 tanks. This is why they turned to the Koreans, however the Koreans depend on the Germans for the K2s transmission, which is why the Altay tank project is stuck in the mud right now.

At the same time Turkey is trying to sell a few dozen ATAK helicopters to Pakistan but because the engine is American, they can't. Now they're considering a Ukrainian engine but I doubt if that will work out.

This is all because of the CAATSA sanctions that were imposed on Turkey because they chose to purchase the S-400 from Russia. This is also why they were refused the F-35. So yes Turkey is being sanctioned and those sanctions are preventing them from striving ahead.

Realistically much of the Iranian militaries equipment will be rendered useless in a war against the USA. That doesn't mean that Iran should completely abandon its airforce or tanks, helicopters all together.

Because aside from the USA, there is also the realistic threat of a regional war in the foreseeable future. Therefore Iran needs to purchase or produce new hardware including fighter jets, helicopters, tanks, etc.

If ambitious regional nations sense weakness and the opportunity arises, they will take full advantage and attack Iran.

In my opinion Russia or China will sell Iran military hardware including fighter jets, parts for tanks, helicopters, etc, however Iran needs to make a purchase large enough for it be worth their while.

If the Turks under zero sanctions are struggling to find an engine for their attack helicopter what makes you think Russia and China are gonna help Iran?

Right now the focus is on jet engines, micro jet engines (for UAVs and cruise missiles).

Tanks and Helicopters have zero priority. Especially all the Cobras Iran has already. Helicopters won’t survive in a war with US.


It’s that Iran cannot mass produce aeronautical engines at this point in time. Simple as that.

How many Owj engines have been made? How many Kowsar are flying? What happened to National helicopter project? Why was Iranian artesh checking out Russian choppers in Russia recently?

If Iran really could mass produce a helicopter engine or jet engine you would see them making them like hot cakes one after another. Instead efforts have been modernizing fighter Jets and modernizing helicopters.

 

[TheImmortal]

Well Turks aren't being sanctioned like Iran however Germany is refusing to sell them spare parts for their Leopard 2 tanks. This is why they turned to the Koreans, however the Koreans depend on the Germans for the K2s transmission, which is why the Altay tank project is stuck in the mud right now.

At the same time Turkey is trying to sell a few dozen ATAK helicopters to Pakistan but because the engine is American, they can't. Now they're considering a Ukrainian engine but I doubt if that will work out.

This is all because of the CAATSA sanctions that were imposed on Turkey because they chose to purchase the S-400 from Russia. So yes Turkey is being sanctioned and those sanctions are preventing them from striving ahead.

At the same time, much of the Iranian militaries equipment will be rendered useless in a war against the USA. That doesn't mean that Iran should completely abandon its airforce or tanks, helicopters all together.

Aside from the USA, there is also the realistic threat of a regional war in the foreseeable future. Therefore Iran needs to purchase or produce new hardware including fighter jets, helicopters, tanks, etc.

If ambitious regional nations sense weakness and the opportunity arises, they will take full advantage and attack Iran.

In my opinion Russia or China will sell Iran military hardware including fighter jets, parts for tanks, helicopters, etc, however Iran needs to make a purchase large enough for it to go through.

Manned attack helicopters are a luxury design in this day and age. They are vulnerable as well and cannot travel far. So helicopters would only be used to defend Iranian territory from a land invasion and provide close air support to Iranian soldiers.

Given the possibility of a land invasion of Iran by her neighbors (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Pakistan) is next to 0% it makes very little sense to invest in helicopters at this point in time when the cost of overcoming sanctions hurdle outweighs the benefits.

Iran should be focused on building unmanned bombers ideally that can go supersonic and attack targets in the Middle East. That would be much more of a force multiplier than attack helicopters.

 

[sha ah]

But you never know what the future holds. When Saddam attacked iran in the 80's did anyone expect it or see it coming ? Iran needs to focus on every field, not just unmanned systems. That's just my opinion.

Manned attack helicopters are a luxury design in this day and age. They are vulnerable as well and cannot travel far. So helicopters would only be used to defend Iranian territory from a land invasion and provide close air support to Iranian soldiers.

Given the possibility of a land invasion of Iran by her neighbors (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Pakistan) is next to 0% it makes very little sense to invest in helicopters at this point in time when the cost of overcoming sanctions hurdle outweighs the benefits.

Iran should be focused on building unmanned bombers ideally that can go supersonic and attack targets in the Middle East. That would be much more of a force multiplier than attack helicopters.

 

[TheImmortal]

But you never know what the future holds.

I don’t need to know the future to know common sense.

A land invasion of Iran in this day and age with the capability of the current and future Iranian military would require 750,000 soldiers for just Iran and potentially up to 1M+ to also secure Iraq/Lebanon/Syria/Yemen as well.

So no neighbor country can afford such a war or swallow the cost. Only country that can afford that war is US. And no US politician will risk his career for such a war unless it is WW3.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Is there any news of Iran buying Su-30 and JF-17 to phase out F-14 and F-5?

 

[sha ah]

Iran is in no hurry really. Iran won't buy JF-17. Most likely SU-27/30 derivatives with technology transfers and in the future maybe SU-57 ?

Those are the most likely outcomes. Contrary to popular belief, Iran's airforce is actually well maintained and even the oldest fighter jets in Iran's inventory have been modified to be able to launch cruise missiles. Even if Iran buys SU-30 or SU-35 with tech transfers, Iran will continue to build trainer aircraft and the reverse engineered F-5, which is a good lightweight conventional fighter. Each F-5 costs Iran $5 million a piece with 90% of components being built inhouse now. They're cheap, reliable, easy to maintain and 4 of them can be taken apart and fit into a 737, so with all that in mind it's still worthwhile using them to supplement the airforce.

You can see several Iranian built F-5s here. Notice how these models build a few years back have two vertical tails instead of one.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1351045269417316353

The most recent variant built in Iran has 4th gen avionics and radar and its airframe is made on synthetic materials like carbon fiber.

Is there any news of Iran buying Su-30 and JF-17 to phase out F-14 and F-5?

 

[TheImmortal]

Is there any news of Iran buying Su-30 and JF-17 to phase out F-14 and F-5?

Russia and China refuse to sell Iran game changer weapons. They don’t have the balls or stomach to piss off the West.

The arms embargo was removed only in “words”.

But supposedly Sukhoi order book at a arms convention last year showed an unknown buyer with a 50-100 (can’t remember Exact #) order for fighter jets. Some theorized this was for Iran since the order was too large for any Arab nation state. Turkey and India operate mostly US airplanes now.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Russia and China refuse to sell Iran game changer weapons.

Russia and China have close relation with Israel but nevertheless I think China will sell JF-17 to Iran. Iran is very important for China strategically.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran is very important for China strategically.

China is a joke when it comes to Chinese-Iranian military relations. Any Iranian knows this very well. China like Russia hasnt been a reliable arms partner and in some cases is even worse, the C-802 case study is a prime example of this.

And no one wants the JF-17 in the year 2022. Iran has already written off Chinese fighters. With US already working on an 6th gen fighter, I’d rather take upgraded F-5, F-4, and Migs than adding bunch of already obsolete tech like the JF-17 that will add more chaos to the established Russian/American logistics of Iranian airforce and only a small marginal benefit. Not worth cost and maintenance. 15-20 years ago maybe...but today? No way.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China is a joke when it comes to Chinese-Iranian military relations. Any Iranian knows this very well. China like Russia hasnt been a reliable arms partner and in some cases is even worse, the C-802 case study is a prime example of this.

And no one wants the JF-17 in the year 2022. Iran has already written off Chinese fighters. With US already working on an 6th gen fighter, I’d rather take upgraded F-5, F-4, and Migs than adding bunch of already obsolete tech like the JF-17 that will add more chaos to the established Russian/American logistics of Iranian airforce and only a small marginal benefit. Not worth cost and maintenance. 15-20 years ago maybe...but today? No way.

JF-17 is no joke. Other than J-10, J-20, F-35, there isn't another plane other than JF-17 that has DSI.

 

[TheImmortal]

JF-17 is no joke. Other than J-10, J-20, F-35, there isn't another plane other than JF-17 that has DSI.

JF-17 is already borderline obsolete. At best it’s a 4+ gen fighter jet. I would take an SU-35 over it any day.

Iran is buying fighter jets for next 20-30 years minimum. Why would Iran purchase JF-17 in 2022 when it is already on the border of being obsolete in next decade?

Makes zero sense. Iran isn’t Saudi Arabia with endless coffers and it isn’t Pakistan which gets weapons at severe discount for free in order to hedge China against India. Thus any major Iranian investment in fighter jets should either be 4++ or 5th gen design or come with MAJOR ToT in order to boost its own domestic projects.