IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

JF-17 is already borderline obsolete. At best it’s a 4+ gen fighter jet. I would take an SU-35 over it any day.

Iran is buying fighter jets for next 20-30 years minimum. Why would Iran purchase JF-17 in 2022 when it is already on the border of being obsolete in next decade?

Makes zero sense. Iran isn’t Saudi Arabia with endless coffers and it isn’t Pakistan which gets weapons at severe discount for free in order to hedge China against India.

JF-17 kills Su-35 any day any where. Su-35 still has obsolete PESA. JF-17 has AESA.

 

[TheImmortal]

JF-17 kills Su-35 any day any where. Su-35 still has obsolete PESA. JF-17 has AESA.

The PESA can be replaced with a modified version of Su-57’s N036 Byelka radar system which has five AESA arrays, 3 X-band and 2 L-band.

Also AL-41’s trump any Chinese engine by a mile. China is still a decade plus behind Russia in engine technology and still uses Russian engines in its 5th fighters because its own engines aren’t yet ready.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The PESA can be replaced with the a modified version of Su-57’s N036 Byelka radar system which has five AESA arrays, 3 X-band and 2 L-band.

Not without significant redesign. Not sure if Su-35's cooling system is sufficient for AESA.

Also AL-41’s trump any Chinese engine by a mile.

RD-93MA has better thrust to weight ratio than AL-41, not to mention more advanced FADEC.

 

[Muhammed45]

China is a joke when it comes to Chinese-Iranian military relations. Any Iranian knows this very well. China like Russia hasnt been a reliable arms partner and in some cases is even worse, the C-802 case study is a prime example of this.

And no one wants the JF-17 in the year 2022. Iran has already written off Chinese fighters. With US already working on an 6th gen fighter, I’d rather take upgraded F-5, F-4, and Migs than adding bunch of already obsolete tech like the JF-17 that will add more chaos to the established Russian/American logistics of Iranian airforce and only a small marginal benefit. Not worth cost and maintenance. 15-20 years ago maybe...but today? No way.

JF-17 can never replace tomcats. China won't sell us SU27 derivatives produced in Chinese companies. At best theyd offer us J10s and JF-17s. J10s lack the range for a vast country like Iran we need hundreds of them, with this Current budget its not affordable. JF-17s are no better, we need something like SU30sm to meet the requirements.

Not to mention that if the heavy national turbofan gets unveiled, then i would even refuse buying SU57s. Given the fact that it will not be so hard for our scientists to produce something in that calibre of an stealth platform. Too hard to catch up with f22s but easy to produce something comparable to the SU57s and J20s.

Nothing beats the homemade stuff.

 

[TheImmortal]

Not without significant redesign. Not sure if Su-35's cooling system is sufficient for AESA.

I said modified version and yes it can be done.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China is still a decade plus behind Russia in engine technology and still uses Russian engines in its 5th fighters because its own engines aren’t yet ready.

J-20B uses Chinese engine which is superior to AL-31 in all aspects.

J10s lack the range for a vast country like Iran

Distance Urmia and Zahedan 1,712 km. Distance Urumqi and Fuzhou 3,467 km. Iran cannot be said to be a big country. Rather medium sized ala Turkey, Japan, Pakistan. JF-17 has 1,350+ km combat radius. More than sufficient for Iran.

 

[TheImmortal]

JF-17 can never replace tomcats. China won't sell us SU27 derivatives produced in Chinese companies. At best theyd offer us J10s and JF-17s. J10s lack the range for a vast country like Iran we need hundreds of them, with this Current budget its not affordable. JF-17s are no better, we need something like SU30sm to meet the requirements.

Not to mention that if the heavy national turbofan gets unveiled, then i would even refuse buying SU57s. Given the fact that it will not be so hard for our scientists to produce something in that calibre of an stealth platform. Too hard to catch up with f22s but easy to produce something comparable to the SU57s and J20s.

Nothing beats the homemade stuff.

Iranian engine tech is currently 1970’s Level and may at best reach AL-21 level in near future.

Iranian aircraft radar tech is behind, Iran avionics and sub systems is behind, Iran EW/ECW is behind, Iran’s targeting systems are behind.

So if by design a stealth fighter you mean a low RCS fighter than yes. But it is far behind in nearly everything that goes into a fighter jet. So a substantial ToT needs to take place as it will take Iran probably another 20-25 years to reach where China is today in terms of aircraft tech.

J-20B uses Chinese engine which is superior to AL-31 in all aspects.

Distance Urmia and Zahedan 1,712 km. Distance Urumqi and Fuzhou 3,467 km. Iran cannot be said to be a big country. Rather medium sized ala Turkey, Japan, Pakistan. JF-17 has 1,000+ km combat radius. More than sufficient for Iran.

First of all I said AL-41 and if you think China has beaten Russia in engine tech you are a bigger Chinese troll than I thought.

How many J-31 and J-20 does China have? All prototypes.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

How many J-31 and J-20 does China have? All prototypes.

China operates 100+ serial J-20. The same can't be said about Russia. Only 1 serial Su-57 has ever been built.

 

[Muhammed45]

Iranian engine tech is currently 1970’s Level and may at best reach AL-21 level in near future.

Well i don't think so. The heavy turbofan is produced already going through various tests. Once defense minister pointed to it, the final test would be testing tge reliability of that engine and it takes consider able amount of time. We have produced reliable turbojet, not Mass produced but its technology is mastered already. Time is a damn Factor in this hard field.

Iranian aircraft radar tech is behind, Iran avionics and sub systems is behind, Iran EW/ECW is behind, Iran’s targeting systems are behind.

Nope, Iran has upgraded Tomcats radars to new standards. It was scheduled to be finished by year 2020. And im certain they have done it successfuly. Adding air to ground capability to the new radar capable of launching the Mass produced Fakour air2air missiles. The new radar is new in every aspect.

Iran’s targeting systems are behind.

I can't say anything about this one, since it was abandoned or maybe being developed with the lights Off. Artesh is too conservative when it comes to unveiling or breaking about their achievements.

So if by design a stealth fighter you mean a low RCS fighter than yes. But it is far behind in nearly everything that goes into a fighter jet. So a substantial ToT needs to take place as it will take Iran probably another 20-25 years to reach where China is today in terms of aircraft tech.

Iran has already produced stealth coating for its stealth UCAVs. You can search it among Iranian sources.

As you mentioned it is time consuming not something impossible. With the priority given to missiles program, it will be an Slow move with lights Off.

 

[TheImmortal]

China operates 100+ serial J-20. The same can't be said about Russia. Only 1 serial Su-57 has ever been built.

China operates probably closer to 50. And of that 50 we don’t know how many can actually operate full time without extensive maintenance on its engine.

Lots of unknowns. And Russian has several SU-57, built it just isn’t in a rush to build 5th gen fighters nor does it have the same budget that the Chinese military has.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

China operates probably closer to 50. And of that 50 we don’t know how many can actually operate full time without extensive maintenance on its engine.

China builds 50 J-20 per year. It's probably 100 if not more by now. China is not Russia, which has much smaller industrial capacity and much slower industrial output.

 

[TheImmortal]

China builds 50 J-20 per year. It's probably 100 if not more by now. China is not Russia, which has much smaller industrial capacity and much slower industrial output.

“probably” is not factual information. Either provide a source that says 100+ exist or don’t spread Chinese propaganda.

Russia’s military budget: $65B

China’s military budget: $175B+

Has nothing to with industrial capacity as Russia was building airplanes by the hundreds back when China was getting slaughtered by the Japanese in their own rice patties.

Please don’t spread propaganda now.

 

[sha ah]

China already supplies JF-17s to Pakistan and therefore it wouldn't really make sense for Iran, a neighboring country with whom Pakistan has shaky relations at best, to also acquire the same jets. In theory its possible but not likely. I don't think Pakistan would be happy about it either.

Also according to most military experts, China is still 10 years behind Russia in aviation technology, specifically when it comes to jet engines. China has recently claimed that they are now no longer reliant on Russian engines for their J-20s but western experts are doubtful. At the same time, what China possesses is one thing, what it is willing to sell it Iran is quite another matter entirely.

When it comes to fighter jets Iranians are more interested in Russian fighter jets as opposed to Chinese. This has to do as much with regional geo-politics, political leverage and historical relations as it does with sheer necessity or practical application. The good old days of super friendly relations between the west and China (Obama era) are long gone. With China looking to surpass the west, western nations have recently shown quite a bit of animosity and hate towards China, pointing fingers at China in Hong Kong and XinJiang in particular. This has made China more receptive to doing business with Iran.

However Iranians are not going to forget the fact that for a while China & Russia were working hand in hand with the western nations hypocritical & unfair policies towards Iran, specifically in the nuclear field. In regards to the nuclear issue, the western nations treatment of Iran is no different than the uneven and unfair treaties imposed on China after the Opium wars. Despite everything Iran was willing to compromise with the world but as we have clearly seen the Americans and EU do not want to negotiate. Rather they want to impose strict terms on Iran, specifically unfair and uneven terms.

Such hypocrisy, deceit and condescending attitudes are completely unacceptable to the Iranian nation. The way things are going Iran will soon join the nuclear club unless the Americans/EU come to their senses and understand that the days of gunboat diplomacy, imperialism and colonialism are long gone. The world is changing, quickly turning into a multi-polar setting and some nations, specifically the US and UK, cannot handle losing their spots as domineering, hegemonic powers.

In the past, especially with UN weapons sanctions, it was impossible for Iran to purchase fighter jets from Russia or China. Today the situation is different but really Iran is only interested in technology transfers and because Russia and Iran have actively worked together in Syria, it seems extremely likely that Iran will be purchasing fighter jets from Russia rather than China.

Either way, neither Russia nor China will sell Iran game changing weapons and Iran has no illusions about its airforce being able to compete with western nations, for the time being anyways. Iran mostly relies on it's missiles, air defenses, proxies, unmanned platforms and other less conventional or asymmetrical methods for deterrence. To Iran fighter jets are just a necessary addition when it comes to its overall military doctrine, which is based on defense.

However Iran isn't just interested in fighter jets. Iran needs a long list of military hardware, including parts for tanks, helicopters, air defense technology etc. For the most part Iran is looking to build its own military hardware, but either under license or with limited foreign components. Iran is currently in a transitional phase. In 20-30 years, if all things go according to plan, Iran will be more or less fully self sufficient when it comes to producing world class military hardware.

JF-17 is no joke. Other than J-10, J-20, F-35, there isn't another plane other than JF-17 that has DSI.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

“probably” is not factual information. Either provide a source that says 100+ exist or don’t spread Chinese propaganda.

Russia’s military budget: $65B

China’s military budget: $175B+

Has nothing to with industrial capacity as Russia was building airplanes by the hundreds back when China was getting slaughtered by the Japanese in their own rice patties.

Please don’t spread propaganda now.

China has biggest industrial base in the world. It takes China 2 years to build a carrier. How long does it take Russia to build a frigate? Hell, even the US industrial output is only a small fraction of China's industrial output.

 

[sha ah]

Well the Russians surely have the know how and industrial capacity to build advanced, world class military hardware. Most experts agree that when it comes to fighter jets, China has almost caught up to Russia in terms of overall quality but still has a decade or so to go when it comes to jet engines for example.

In some fields, like avionics and radar, I believe that the general consensus is that China is slightly ahead or on par ? Again this is according to speculation by experts/pundits,. However when it comes to the most advanced hardware, most nations are understandably secretive in this regard, so really these are guesstimations at best. Therefore such speculation should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Anyways, China has two aircraft carriers and one of them is an ex-Soviet carrier. Also China bought the S-400 from Russia and SU-35 jets, so yeah obviously China still has some ways to go. If China were truly ahead or on par with Russians, why even bother paying billions for Russian hardware ? The proof as they say is in the pudding.

Again though, what China and Russia possess for themselves is one thing. What they're willing to give Iran is another. If Iran were to buy fighter jets from China, they would be SU-27 derivatives with some interest in the J-20. Iran also plans to make purchases related to tanks, helicopters, armored personnel carriers, upgrades for some older fighter jets and more. This will include technology transfers for anything Iran purchases. All together it's going to be a lucrative deal for the supplier.

The fact that Iran is not rushing into any deal and biding its time shows that 1) Iran is confident in its own domestic capabilities when it comes to securing its territorial integrity 2) Iran wants to sign a rock solid, fair deal that's mutually beneficial for both parties involved. In other words no games or backing out due to western or Zionist pressure.

China has biggest industrial base in the world. It takes China 2 years to build a carrier. How long does it take Russia to build a frigate? Hell, even the US industrial output is only a small fraction of China's industrial output.