IRIAF | News and Discussions

[VEVAK]

It's very big deal , this time the airplane system worked fine and they could not blame it , here some one if did his job correctly 15 people were still alive. and it was clear that the airplane could not land on that airway its a big deal because it was not the first one and previously a passenger plane nearly escaped the same fate.


those runways are only 10km apart and they are virtually in line , honestly that's a big mistake any plane that want to land in Payam Airport first will see fath Airport runway in the same bearing and same line under himself and if the captain is not aware of the situation he may make such fatal mistake .

to be honest , they need to do something about that runway , the least they can do is to destroy it and build another one but this time make it north south, and they have enough space there for that.

Actually the cheapest way would be to 1st have ground control warn each pilot upon approach to make sure not to confuse the two runways on every landing and they can also change the landing approach from west to east or they can make GPS a requirement on every jet aircraft that lands there....
They can also add a relatively low cost surveillance thermal imaging camera monitor each landing and approach....
And all these options put together would still be cheaper than building a new runway..

And there is no reason to destroy the runway at the IRGC Helo base when all you have to do is paint it in a way that it looks less like an Airport Runway.....

 

[Hack-Hook]

Actually the cheapest way would be to 1st have ground control warn each pilot upon approach to make sure not to confuse the two runways on every landing and they can also change the landing approach from west to east or they can make GPS a requirement on every jet aircraft that lands there....
They can also add a relatively low cost surveillance thermal imaging camera monitor each landing and approach....
And all these options put together would still be cheaper than building a new runway..

And there is no reason to destroy the runway at the IRGC Helo base when all you have to do is paint it in a way that it looks less like an Airport Runway.....

Change the approach won't help and warning the pilots seems have no effect and painting the runway to what , it will fade away under sun and rain .and asking to have GPS is useless and hilarious its an international airport and I assure you your solution mean Iranian airplanes can't land there as I wonder which other country airplane don't have GPS and I wonder which airline want to have flight to payam airport instead of Imam Khomeini airport? And thermal imaging system solve what ?

And those options together maybe cheaper but are not as effective.

 

[VEVAK]

You either remove the paint or paint it in a way that it looks less like a runway

I would remove the strips and flashes and paint a bunch of large helo signs (Circle and H) from one end of the runway to the other and warn pilots upon approach not to confuse the Helo base with the Airport upon each landing as a matter of policy

If air control does it's job properly GPS transponder transmitting coordinates, speed and altitude to Air Control should also help if any pilot still confuses the two

A long range thermal imaging camera would help Air control monitor each landing upon approach so once the pilot communicates that he is on approach for landing the camera operator will attempt to lock on the Aircraft feeding video back to air control so they can see that based on it's speed, altitude & heading the aircraft is a good 10km off mark and if they can't see it and lock on they again warn the pilot that they do not have a visual and to double check to make sure he doesn't confuse the two....

 

[Hack-Hook]

If air control does it's job properly GPS transponder transmitting coordinates, speed and altitude to Air Control should also help if any pilot still confuses the two

Boeing 707 is older than those things also MD-88

A long range thermal imaging camera would help Air control monitor each landing upon approach so once the pilot communicates that he is on approach for landing the camera operator will attempt to lock on the Aircraft feeding video back to air control so they can see that based on it's speed, altitude & heading the aircraft is a good 10km off mark and if they can't see it and lock on they again warn the pilot that they do not have a visual and to double check to make sure he doesn't confuse the two....

Radars already do that ,but as you saw it was not enough .

I would remove the strips and flashes and paint a bunch of large helo signs (Circle and H) from one end of the runway to the other and warn pilots upon approach not to confuse the Helo base with the Airport upon each landing as a matter of policy

well , your solution won't change one serious flaw of that runway and that's it end up into private house , in short the genius that approved the runway and the one that has designed it even didn't put 30m between the end of it and private houses , my solution solve that problem just look at the map and you see what a disaster that runway is

and that runway is not ultra modern long runway designed for receiving A380, its a small runway designed for planes like cesna . destroying and rebuilding that runway is far far more cheaper than loosing that Boeing 707

 

[TheImmortal]

Is there any proof that, that runway does not get used at all?

For example, even though it’s a helo basis. Do high ranking military personnel land by small planes or jets ever when arriving from different cities?

 

[VEVAK]

Boeing 707 is older than those things also MD-88

Radars already do that ,but as you saw it was not enough .


well , your solution won't change one serious flaw of that runway and that's it end up into private house , in short the genius that approved the runway and the one that has designed it even didn't put 30m between the end of it and private houses , my solution solve that problem just look at the map and you see what a disaster that runway is

and that runway is not ultra modern long runway designed for receiving A380, its a small runway designed for planes like cesna . destroying and rebuilding that runway is far far more cheaper than loosing that Boeing 707

That is an IRGC Helo Base and yes ultra light Aircraft's and UAV's can potentially land there but again it is a HELO base and not meant for fixed winged aircraft at all especially fixed winged jet aircraft of any kind
with Jet aircraft within a minute or so in the air you have Mehrabad, Imam Khomaini & Payam so there is absolutely no reason to change that strip into what it is not!

A long range thermal imaging surveillance with a wide lens long range standard cam, laser range finder, GPS & imaging software wont cost Iran even $20,000 to install (The price of a new Toyota corolla) where as a radar that would bring the same type of accuracy needed to monitor landings would cost far more than that which would be unnecessary at a small airport like Payam

And if Air control warns a pilot twice because he couldn't pickup his approach visually and the pilot still lands at a Helo base then clearly the fault would be solely on the pilot! Especially since the airport isn't exactly on the same heading as Payam and is about a half a degree off mark

 

[Hack-Hook]

A long range thermal imaging surveillance with a wide lens long range standard cam, laser range finder, GPS & imaging software wont cost Iran even $20,000 to install (The price of a new Toyota corolla) where as a radar that would bring the same type of accuracy needed to monitor landings would cost far more than that which would be unnecessary at a small airport like Payam

there is no need to install those radars as its more than 40 years that they are in places.

and you have forgotten one thing , no where in the word they control the aircraft all the time , hey gave it a bearing , weather and altitude and permission to land or not and then go and check other airplanes , the accident happens in less than one minutes , the time between payam and fath airport at approaching speed for a 707 is only one minute or so, very little time for traffic control to warn the pilot and very little time for the pilot .
suggest you watch the movie sully , in it they show how long it take for pilot to make decision and how those small seconds change the fate of airplane.

 

[VEVAK]

there is no need to install those radars as its more than 40 years that they are in places.

and you have forgotten one thing , no where in the word they control the aircraft all the time , hey gave it a bearing , weather and altitude and permission to land or not and then go and check other airplanes , the accident happens in less than one minutes , the time between payam and fath airport at approaching speed for a 707 is only one minute or so, very little time for traffic control to warn the pilot and very little time for the pilot .
suggest you watch the movie sully , in it they show how long it take for pilot to make decision and how those small seconds change the fate of airplane.

Landing a 707 at any airport you need to be given permission for landing and a runway number and that runway number in it has the heading you need to take for landing and with one strip runways your heading number will be your runway number FYI the heading the pilot took for landing at that strip was a degree off mark now for smaller aircraft a degree off is easily adjustable but on a 707 you need to be on the exact same heading when you attempt a landing

Regardless once you've given permission for landing that's when you give your 1st warning and then once the pilot declares that he is coming on approach if your cam's haven't been able to pick him up yet you warn him that you either don't have a visual or that you see him and he is off mark and you warn him again to check his heading and make sure he is not going to the wrong airport....

Payam is a one strip runway and air control at Payam would have nothing else to do but to make sure the Aircraft lands safely because landing is the hardest part of flying and it's when most accidents happen.

 

[OldTwilight]

change thread name to : IRIAF | RIP (Reset In Peace)

 

[Hack-Hook]

Landing a 707 at any airport you need to be given permission for landing and a runway number and that runway number in it has the heading you need to take for landing and with one strip runways your heading number will be your runway number FYI the heading the pilot took for landing at that strip was a degree off mark now for smaller aircraft a degree off is easily adjustable but on a 707 you need to be on the exact same heading when you attempt a landing

Regardless once you've given permission for landing that's when you give your 1st warning and then once the pilot declares that he is coming on approach if your cam's haven't been able to pick him up yet you warn him that you either don't have a visual or that you see him and he is off mark and you warn him again to check his heading and make sure he is not going to the wrong airport....

the problem is that the heading is correct , the pilot had permission for landing , the permission is granted when the aircraft is out of visual , so the pilot see an airstrip and say what why I'm so high so he think the instrument is wrong and he goes for the airport or let just say dive for the airport (what you see at the video ) so he don't miss it and the result is he approach the band even faster and that mean less time .

by the way its not tower duty to find the airport for the aircraft it's pilot duty .
the tower have other duties

Air traffic controllers typically do the following:

• Issue landing and takeoff instructions to pilots
• Monitor and direct the movement of aircraft on the ground and in the air, using radar, computers, or visual references
• Control all ground traffic at airports, including baggage vehicles and airport workers
• Manage communications by transferring control of departing flights to traffic control centers and accepting control of arriving flights
• Provide information to pilots, such as weather updates, runway closures, and other critical information
• Alert airport response staff, in the event of an aircraft emergency

Tower controllers direct the movement of vehicles on runways and taxiways. They check flight plans, give pilots clearance for takeoff or landing, and direct the movement of aircraft and other traffic on the runways and other parts of the airport. Most work from control towers, as they generally must be able to see the traffic they control.

Approach and departure controllers ensure that aircraft traveling within an airport’s airspace maintain minimum separation for safety. They give clearances to enter controlled airspace and hand off control of aircraft to en route controllers. They use radar equipment to monitor flight paths and work in buildings known as Terminal Radar Approach Control Centers (TRACONs). They also provide information to pilots, such as weather conditions and other critical notices.

En route controllers monitor aircraft once they leave an airport’s airspace. They work at air route traffic control centers located throughout the country, which typically are not located at airports.

and as the runways are in same path and have the same bearing , those Air traffic controllers did their job correctly , By the way Civil radars can't tell you the altitude of the aircraft co the traffic control won't know if the aircraft reduce the altitude for landing .(unless the aircraft announce it's altitude and then that is barometric altitude not actual one)
by the way I'm not sure that if Payam airport even have that radar and Fath airport don't have any RADAR.

 

[VEVAK]

the problem is that the heading is correct , the pilot had permission for landing , the permission is granted when the aircraft is out of visual , so the pilot see an airstrip and say what why I'm so high so he think the instrument is wrong and he goes for the airport or let just say dive for the airport (what you see at the video ) so he don't miss it and the result is he approach the band even faster and that mean less time .

by the way its not tower duty to find the airport for the aircraft it's pilot duty .
the tower have other duties



and as the runways are in same path and have the same bearing , those Air traffic controllers did their job correctly , By the way Civil radars can't tell you the altitude of the aircraft co the traffic control won't know if the aircraft reduce the altitude for landing .(unless the aircraft announce it's altitude and then that is barometric altitude not actual one)
by the way I'm not sure that if Payam airport even have that radar and Fath airport don't have any RADAR.

Yes you don't always pick up a visual when you give clearance for landing but again your waning the aircraft of another strip and not to confuse the two especially when he is approaching from the west
Also when the pilot declares that he is coming in for a landing that is when you need to have a visual or something is wrong because at that point he should be visible!
You don't just give clearance and go about your day….
And it also helps if the IRGC stirp has large Helo signs so it looks less like a runway..... FYI those houses were built after the strip was already there.....

I suggest you go to google earth, hit tools and enter flight simulator and attempt a landing at Payam and yes it is not an accurate picture but simply an approximation and yes a 707 has bad visibility but pay more attention to your instruments and the direction and heading you need to be on for landing at Payam and take a good look at what a 1000 meter long strip looks like

 

[Hassan Al-Somal]

Are engines displayed here built in Iran?

The progress of Iran's domestic arms industry is amazing. They definitely tell Africa, Middle East, and South America what it takes to withstand the pressure and develop their defensive needs domestically. Thank God. More power to them.

 

[skyshadow]

Are engines displayed here built in Iran?

The progress of Iran's domestic arms industry is amazing. They definitely tell Africa, Middle East, and South America what it takes to withstand the pressure and develop their defensive needs domestically. Thank God. More power to them.

yes they are made in Iran. we have to be in this level because we want to build a passenger aircraft some time in the next 5 years.

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/...ی-ایران-5-سال-دیگر-هواپیمای-مسافربری-می-سازیم

 

[Nasr]

I do hope that Iran musters it's strength and implements a robust military modernization program. I do NOT support Iran's leadership, but I do wish for another Muslim country to be strong and not hamstrung to the West, other than Pakistan.

 

[skyshadow]