What's new

IRIAF | News and Discussions

exact point, American chose F 14 to counter Soviet not Iran.
Iran, herself had more interest and need to F 15.

this discussion is pointless , we need to renew our air force but there is no sign of it ... our air force already become a joke and in next decade even flying with half of our airplane will become dangerous and costly ,,,,
Shah died 40 years ago and good or bad , we are still operating what that so called TRAITOR obtained for us ....
 
this discussion is pointless , we need to renew our air force but there is no sign of it ... our air force already become a joke and in next decade even flying with half of our airplane will become dangerous and costly ,,,,
Shah died 40 years ago and good or bad , we are still operating what that so called TRAITOR obtained for us ....
Funny thing is that F-14 is the best jet Iran could ever have. Anyone saying F-14 was a poor choice is utterly a fool towards Iran's need for long range air interceptors. Iran is too mountainous to have a weak air superiority force.

Out of all countries in the region Iran should actually have the most jacked air force, and the saudis would have more air defenses considering their flat terrain is easy for radar detection & lock on. Out of all countries in the world Iran most needs a powerful air force to watch over it.
 
Funny thing is that F-14 is the best jet Iran could ever have. Anyone saying F-14 was a poor choice is utterly a fool towards Iran's need for long range air interceptors. Iran is too mountainous to have a weak air superiority force.

Out of all countries in the region Iran should actually have the most jacked air force, and the saudis would have more air defenses considering their flat terrain is easy for radar detection & lock on.
this discussion is pointless , we need to renew our air force but there is no sign of it ... our air force already become a joke and in next decade even flying with half of our airplane will become dangerous and costly ,,,,
Shah died 40 years ago and good or bad , we are still operating what that so called TRAITOR obtained for us ....
come back and read my posts in two page ago
I said F14 is better than F15 and there is no doubt about it but that does not mean F14 is better choice for Iran in compare of F15.
There is no doubt American forced us to buy F14.
Israel chose F15 over F14 for the rational reason.

and American stop using F14 for more rational reason.
 
come back and read my posts in two page ago
I said F14 is better than F15 and there is no doubt about it but that does not mean F14 is better choice for Iran in compare of F15.
There is no doubt American forced us to buy F14.
Israel chose F15 over F14 for the rational reason.

and American stop using F14 for more rational reason.

even if we have F15 , after 40 years , they would become old and we have to replace them ... F14 did the job for us and now we should look at present and future not at past ... past is for learning ...
 
exact point, American chose F 14 to counter Soviet not Iran.
Iran, herself had more interest and need to F 15.
Wrong
If you look at what Iran Ordered at the time ,you see it was a combination of F14 and F16
Iran is a big country and we needed something to protect ourselves from anybody who attacked us , don't forget that Iran just had ended a war with Iraq over Arvand rud and Iraq was strengthening its air-force .we needed something to protect ourselves against future aggression .
Iran Airforce had two choice a multi role fighter that was jack of all trades but did not anything at best which would have been f-15 before latest generation of AIM-120. or a two fighter solution a pure interceptor and a Bomber and Iran choose the second option which I believe was a better solution .
don't forget at the time Iran was not planning to use F-5s and F-4s for another 50 year.
 
f
F-14 was chosen because Iran needed a fast interceptor to stop Soviet Union MIGS from continuously violating Iranian airspace.
F-15 is little faster than F14...but they still chose F14, only speed is not what will help you to catch fast aircraft ,F-4 is also 2.3 mach aircraft ..problem is lock on and missile range....fast aircraft can simple escape from range.But when you have powerfull F14 with weapons system like AWG9 + AIM54 you can lock on and fire missile on enemy before they are even aware of F14 presence , thus because of fast AIM54 missile and great range aircraft almost has no chanse to escape ... So having only fast aircraft is not enoughf for big boys .When someone runaway 2+ mach than if you have aircraft with short missile and radar range than you have two problems.First problem is to aprouch in lock on range,than second problem is after you lock on and lunch....since missile has short range there is not much time for missile to catch aircraft.
F14 was not selected because of it speed, F15 max speed is little higher than F14 ..hack even F4 speed is 2.3 mach...F-4 other fly characteristics are not good as F14 and F15 but in interceptor role it doesn't need it.
Main reason is AWG9 and AIM54 ,it is simple...like I explain F-15 BVR capatibiliteswere just little better than F4.
I read article where one pilot who was part of Iranian commission in US explained selection process...He said that F-15’s demonstration was spectacular also ,main F15 adventages for Iranians were..price, easy transition for Pilots...F-4 pilots and WSO could jump in to F-15 without new training...there was only short transition course from F-4 to F15...no new weapon system for which pilots and WSO have to go through complete learning process and practice training.Also ground support and maintaince would be cheaper and easier.In short F-4 to F15 would be logical transition.
On other side F-14 had bunch of new technology and many new technologies were first time used on F14...it was not even close to what Iranians had..very complex weapons system and completely new weapon system,variable-sweep wing...pilots and WSO had go through complete training process ..ground support and maintaince also is much more expensive...in short F-15 had in start better chances.
What makes difference is AWG9+AIM54 ..it is unique war machine...


Now here is copy paste of what should be genuine decription of F14 and F15 flight presentation:

The flight demonstration was scheduled not to exceed 30 minutes from the first take off to the landing of the second aircraft.

The base was closed for that short time in which at the presence of the Shah, the two U.S. fighters had to fly their demonstration: it was decided that the USAF’s F-15, piloted by Irv Burrows (McDonnell Douglas’ test pilot), would have performed first, while Don Evans and Dennis Romano (Grumman’s test crew) with their F-14, would wait their turn after the Eagle.

While the F-15 taxied onto runway, Don and Dennis started engines of the Tomcat ahead of the schedule and burned down fuel in the warm up area during the Eagle demonstration, to reduce the difference in thrust to weight ratio between the two fighters. However F-15’s demonstration was spectacular, not only for the raw power of the aircraft but also for pilot’s skills: Burrows was a great pilot and that day, he showed all his ability.

F-15-460x273.jpg


The flight demonstration was the same for both aircraft: it consisted in a sequence of maneuvers beginning with a high performance take off followed by an Immelman turn and climb-out, then a descent to a high speed fly-by, two high-g low altitude turns followed by a slow speed fly-by in the landing configuration and last, the landing.

Since the F-15 has a higher thrust to weight ratio than the F-14A, the Eagle performed a really impressive flight profile during which it pulled an incredible 7-g 360 degree turn.

After the F-15 had finished its display, everyone was waiting for the underpowered F-14A demonstration: the Tomcat’s TF-30 engines would have not given to the aircraft the same thrust to weigh ratio of the Eagle.

However, during the F-15’s performance, Evans and Romano burned down a great quantity of fuel and now they had only 2,500 pounds of remaining gas: while this little quantity was only sufficient to accomplish their flight demonstration, 2,500 pounds was also one eight of the Tomcat’s internal fuel capacity and thanks to this fact the Tomcat had the same thrust to weight ratio of the Eagle.

At this point the F-14 had one thing that the F-15 didn’t have: variable geometry wings that would have made the difference for the grace of the flight demonstration.

Don and Dennis pushed both throttles to full zone five afterburner (which was the maximum afterburner thrust setting for TF-30 engine) and took off to perform the same demonstration of the F-15: the sequence of the maneuvers was just like the Eagle’s one, but the Tomcat’s crew, during the knife-edge pass, decided to sweep the wings from fully swept to fully forward and then they executed a turn at the maximum Tomcat’s performance, producing a large cloud of vapor off the wings due to the shock wave.



F-14-460x368.jpg

Then approaching the mid with the wings swept at 40 degrees, the Tomcat went into a full afterburner 360 degree 8 ½ g turn accelerated to 400 knots, very impressive to see. To end the demonstration, Evans and Romano added a touch-and-go landing: when the main landing gears came in touch with the runway they inserted full zone five afterburners and the Tomcat climbed in vertical. At this point, while they had almost ran out of fuel, they made a spectacular carrier landing approach and they fully stopped in one thousand feet of runway.

Once the show ended, the Shah literally ignored the Eagle and walked directly towards the Tomcat speaking for some minutes with the crew still sat in the cockpit of the fighter: he’d chosen the Tomcat, saving the Grumman and assuring a future to the F-14.
 
Last edited:
The question is whether a 50% better radar and the AIM-54 are worth a more than 3 times smaller fleet, or to spend more than 3 times more money on it.

The F-14 paid a huge amount of money for that extra capability at the edge of technology. Much of the technology was not economic, it was not mature enough to be produced at a competitive price.

The AIM-54 was so modern and complex at that time, that the cost per round was extremely high.

So was it the right choice? Given how crappy the AIM-7 was, maybe to protection the F-14 provided was overall better than a 280 ship F-15 fleet. Maybe it avoided high losses due to bombing of expensive targets and thus "brought back" the money spend on it.

However I rather equip the F-15 with AIM-9 only and kill the enemy when I have 280 instead of 79 fighters available. Back then dogfighting was still the main way to kill an enemy. Then today those F-15s could be upgraded with SARH Sejil and ARH Fakkur-90.
 
Where did you get idea that Iran would have 280 F-15...so many aircrafts..it would require few years to deliver even more...and you would have now same or even less F15...And Iran not ordered only f14....but other orders never delivered and that is what exactlly would happen with those 280 F-15..you would get first bunch probably at same time as F-14 was delivered and rest would end up as other weapons order from Iran.considering that F-15C project was started latter it could happen that none of them would delivered..I'm not sure how many(if any) they could deliver up to '79..For 280 aircrafts even today it would require few years to deliver.
EDIT..I have finded..one seat C version was started with productionin '78 and that is version Iran would buy I suppose..so there is no way they will deliver 280 in one year...
 
Well I try to find how many they could produce on yearly basis and than we could calculate how many F15 Iran could get eventualy... there was also orders from Israel in that time and others..so I'm sure those 280 ,even if order would be so many aircrafts ,woul be delivered in few batches... Now when you consider how many F14 is worth F-15 ....well it depend..but again in that time Iran didn't count only on F-14 ..so..ofcourse everyone would chose 280 F15 than 80 F14
 
Well I try to find how many they could produce on yearly basis and than we could calculate how many F15 Iran could get eventualy... there was also orders from Israel in that time and others..so I'm sure those 280 ,even if order would be so many aircrafts ,woul be delivered in few batches... Now when you consider how many F14 is worth F-15 ....well it depend..but again in that time Iran didn't count only on F-14 ..so..ofcourse everyone would chose 280 F15 than 80 F14
come on guys the selection was not between 79 F-14 vs 280 F-15.
Iran ordered 160 F-14 and more than 100 of F-16 (don't knew the actual number)
if you are gonna discuss it then let discuss actual data not some fictional ones .

f
F-15 is little faster than F14...but they still chose F14, only speed is not what will help you to catch fast aircraft ,F-4 is also 2.3 mach aircraft ..problem is lock on and missile range....fast aircraft can simple escape from range.But when you have powerfull F14 with weapons system like AWG9 + AIM54 you can lock on and fire missile on enemy before they are even aware of F14 presence , thus because of fast AIM54 missile and great range aircraft almost has no chanse to escape ... So having only fast aircraft is not enoughf for big boys .When someone runaway 2+ mach than if you have aircraft with short missile and radar range than you have two problems.First problem is to aprouch in lock on range,than second problem is after you lock on and lunch....since missile has short range there is not much time for missile to catch aircraft.
F14 was not selected because of it speed, F15 max speed is little higher than F14 ..hack even F4 speed is 2.3 mach...F-4 other fly characteristics are not good as F14 and F15 but in interceptor role it doesn't need it.
Main reason is AWG9 and AIM54 ,it is simple...like I explain F-15 BVR capatibiliteswere just little better than F4.
I read article where one pilot who was part of Iranian commission in US explained selection process...He said that F-15’s demonstration was spectacular also ,main F15 adventages for Iranians were..price, easy transition for Pilots...F-4 pilots and WSO could jump in to F-15 without new training...there was only short transition course from F-4 to F15...no new weapon system for which pilots and WSO have to go through complete learning process and practice training.Also ground support and maintaince would be cheaper and easier.In short F-4 to F15 would be logical transition.
On other side F-14 had bunch of new technology and many new technologies were first time used on F14...it was not even close to what Iranians had..very complex weapons system and completely new weapon system,variable-sweep wing...pilots and WSO had go through complete training process ..ground support and maintaince also is much more expensive...in short F-15 had in start better chances.
What makes difference is AWG9+AIM54 ..it is unique war machine...


Now here is copy paste of what should be genuine decription of F14 and F15 flight presentation:

The flight demonstration was scheduled not to exceed 30 minutes from the first take off to the landing of the second aircraft.

The base was closed for that short time in which at the presence of the Shah, the two U.S. fighters had to fly their demonstration: it was decided that the USAF’s F-15, piloted by Irv Burrows (McDonnell Douglas’ test pilot), would have performed first, while Don Evans and Dennis Romano (Grumman’s test crew) with their F-14, would wait their turn after the Eagle.

While the F-15 taxied onto runway, Don and Dennis started engines of the Tomcat ahead of the schedule and burned down fuel in the warm up area during the Eagle demonstration, to reduce the difference in thrust to weight ratio between the two fighters. However F-15’s demonstration was spectacular, not only for the raw power of the aircraft but also for pilot’s skills: Burrows was a great pilot and that day, he showed all his ability.

F-15-460x273.jpg


The flight demonstration was the same for both aircraft: it consisted in a sequence of maneuvers beginning with a high performance take off followed by an Immelman turn and climb-out, then a descent to a high speed fly-by, two high-g low altitude turns followed by a slow speed fly-by in the landing configuration and last, the landing.

Since the F-15 has a higher thrust to weight ratio than the F-14A, the Eagle performed a really impressive flight profile during which it pulled an incredible 7-g 360 degree turn.

After the F-15 had finished its display, everyone was waiting for the underpowered F-14A demonstration: the Tomcat’s TF-30 engines would have not given to the aircraft the same thrust to weigh ratio of the Eagle.

However, during the F-15’s performance, Evans and Romano burned down a great quantity of fuel and now they had only 2,500 pounds of remaining gas: while this little quantity was only sufficient to accomplish their flight demonstration, 2,500 pounds was also one eight of the Tomcat’s internal fuel capacity and thanks to this fact the Tomcat had the same thrust to weight ratio of the Eagle.

At this point the F-14 had one thing that the F-15 didn’t have: variable geometry wings that would have made the difference for the grace of the flight demonstration.

Don and Dennis pushed both throttles to full zone five afterburner (which was the maximum afterburner thrust setting for TF-30 engine) and took off to perform the same demonstration of the F-15: the sequence of the maneuvers was just like the Eagle’s one, but the Tomcat’s crew, during the knife-edge pass, decided to sweep the wings from fully swept to fully forward and then they executed a turn at the maximum Tomcat’s performance, producing a large cloud of vapor off the wings due to the shock wave.



F-14-460x368.jpg

Then approaching the mid with the wings swept at 40 degrees, the Tomcat went into a full afterburner 360 degree 8 ½ g turn accelerated to 400 knots, very impressive to see. To end the demonstration, Evans and Romano added a touch-and-go landing: when the main landing gears came in touch with the runway they inserted full zone five afterburners and the Tomcat climbed in vertical. At this point, while they had almost ran out of fuel, they made a spectacular carrier landing approach and they fully stopped in one thousand feet of runway.

Once the show ended, the Shah literally ignored the Eagle and walked directly towards the Tomcat speaking for some minutes with the crew still sat in the cockpit of the fighter: he’d chosen the Tomcat, saving the Grumman and assuring a future to the F-14.
this story always made me laugh.
have you guys ever asked yourself how an airplane that was supposed to be able to fly more than 1 hours (actually combat radius of 926km means more like two hours of flight) can burn 87.5% of its fuel just by waiting on runway for 30 min even if the engine is powered up to the level of actual flight (while in reality it was only on) just yo ask yourself have you ever heard how f-14 engine sounds don't you think representative of McDonnell Douglas at the competition would have raised hell if the Grumman pilot made such stunt . don't you think US air-force personnel at the competition would have pointed at it .
 
come on guys the selection was not between 79 F-14 vs 280 F-15.
Iran ordered 160 F-14 and more than 100 of F-16 (don't knew the actual number)
if you are gonna discuss it then let discuss actual data not some fictional ones .

In the Book "the Eagle and the Lion: The tragedy of American Iranian relations" it was claimed that the U.S offered the Shah 160 F-16A/Bs and that the Shah wanted an additional 140 F-16s for a total of 300 aircraft.
 
Back
Top Bottom