Iranian Trained Terrorists involved in Sectarian Killing in Pakistan

[Dubious]

while you try to show yourself a secular and open minded Person that rathers Ummat al Islam instead of name tags, yet your bias toward your inherited sector of Islam is very clear...

I am not secular nor ever declared so!

What it means that I blame both sides!! Do you think if Shia victims had any possiblity or hope to get their rights in court... or do you think if the remaining shia families of victims and other shia in Pakistan had any hopes that Government would protect them and stop the Salafi bloodshed, they still wanted to react by themselves??

When you talk of shia you talk of the victims but when you talk of sunni dead people you talk as though ALL of them even the children and women shot were carrying an atom bomb! Look whose the biased person now? Do you think those sunni who die dont have feelings and wont retaliate? Try thinking of both as human beings with feelings for once!

THIS is why I blame both sides!

2ndly, why wouldnt the Shia have justice? we have both SUNNI AND SHIA ulema who wield the shariah and Islamic council of Pakistan....We have had Zaradari a SHIA president and numerous other SHIA generals....our GOVERNMENT either isnt interested in their own school of thought or dont care for the daily man...I know the latter to be true but then the former should also be the case for ALL THE SUNNI politicians and govt...Hence, same fate for both...Conclusion: no one is getting anything unless you have $$$$$$

As for the Salafi bloodshed...Just like I have no proof of SHIA involvement sadly many have no proof of Sunni involvement...Any asshole can come up and say I am Sunni and kill people and all eyes will fall on sunni ....

And hence why I blame both sides! Coz if these Salafi are stupidly intelligent not be found in their caves, then how can they be stupid enough to promote their school as a murder school?

You are talking about blaming both sides like Pakistani government has everything under control and if X Wahhabi group killed 1000 innocent Shias or Innocent soldier in Peshavar then it never ever gonna repeat again!!

In Pakistan the killings arent solely Shia/ Sunni some are sectarian...others are for Baluchistan crap and MANY are for numerous stupid things from land to even fighting whose bloody Mullah is more accurate!

The fact that these anti-Shia Wahhabi massacares repeated tens of times if not hundreds of times shows that Pakistani governemt and its secret service can not do nothing to prevent these attacks (or they already are in one side!!)

Do you think NOT A SINGLE sunni dies in Pakistan? THE day you set foot in Pakistan than dare to talk to me about my country and my people (BOTH SUNNI AND SHIA are MY PEOPLE)

half of Paksitani people never recognise Paksitani government and courts.

Who gave you this figure and thought? We dont respect politicians but you concluding this is equally delusional like an PDF indian conjuring shit from his brain!

they judge and execute independently in public eyes... The pakistani society is half modern and believers in rule and government as the higher hand...and a big part of pakistan does not recognise this... they are tribal and only follow their sheikhs...

THERE is a LARGE difference in recognizing a govt and trusting its justice system...Sure half of us prob dont trust the justice system....Sure more than half of us are just not educated enough to know the difference between a tribal self proclaimed judge from a real one who has a degree or the one who sits in high court with a fake degree or via references....The system isnt perfect but claiming half of us dont recognize it is delusional at its best!

If you see Iranian shia victims of Wahhabi groups like Jaish al Adl are not into developing an army and go to fight those terrorists, it is because everybody in Iran believing in Goverment and its power to take the revenge and control the situation...

Just a while back you were asking me if they wont take revenge and now you are talking about power of the govt? WOW! talk about level of incoherence!

Do you think if Shia victims had any possiblity or hope to get their rights in court... or do you think if the remaining shia families of victims and other shia in Pakistan

Unless it is raining shia I am not sure where you are going!

with shia victims and OTHER shia in Pakistan!

Let's be honest... In a situation where hundreds of attacks against shia happened and no government could and wanted to stop them shows they have no choise but to defend themselves... It is wrong to kill innocent people though, be it from Sunni or Shia side..

Defending themselves does not involve funding terrorism...Let me guess you either didnt watch the video in OP or you simply didnt understand the topic at hand...

Blame is for aggressor... Blame is for the government who can not stop the aggressor... If the victims were Sunni I would say the same brother...

Well the govt found, Iranian hands as equal aggressors, now what?

We must recognise the problem first and trying to fix it on our behalf... every Moderate Sunni **** can have its role by talking to its par sector and exlaining that it is against Islam and humanity to kill and Takfir other living people...

And what of the newly discovered Persian hand in the story?

In shia we don't have organized Takfiri groups... once upon a time (a decade or so ago), there were a shia group in Iran called Hojjatiye... they were very hardcore shias who used to hold La,ane Omar parties and openly act against Sunnis.... This group is illegal in IRan and suppressed to the bone...

Suppressed or shooed across the border into Pakistan?

See? Even when they are shia and Iranian government is Shia but when they see this group is not healthy for the unity of Islam and Iranian colorful citizens..then they openly condemn them and then immediately act to suppress them.... now, Hojjatiyeh group in Iran are hated by everyone and IRanian security forces and secret service attack them hard with no mercy when they catch any...

What the hell do you think our army is doing in the Northern areas? Playing cricket?

Grow up kid! GROW UP!

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@scythian500 @Serpentine I am Pakistani of Sunni extraction. I would not as a normative mention my persuation however given the subject I feel it is necceassry to show solidarity with victims and to bridge this stupid, vile and disgusting sectarianism. Those who are into this sectarism are doing the devils handiwork nothing more nothing less. I have to go now to eat but I wish the best to all Shia and to my Iranian brothers and sisters.

To all Pakistani here we have to condemn this type of internal coinflict fro whereever it comes that is eating us up from inside ..

 

[scythian500]

THAT there is not democracy anymore....if you want to call yourself democrat you should have BOTH councils!

What do u mean? let's apply this to UK:

One council guard the rules and the PM candidas to make sure they are not against principal constitution of UK (they don;t have constitution the way we know it..but a bunch of historical laws collected when the one specific case happened) and the queen...

One council to make sure it is against the principals of constitution and queen?

You think democracy is only what is practiced in West? Democracy basis is the system that people of one country rule themselves by choosing representatives by people through votes... either direct votes or through elected Parliament members...

This means if the representatives of one country want the punishment of death to murderers and drug traffickers...then it is %100 democracy... IF they want it to be in a form to make sure no laws against Shia is going to pass it is democracy....

It is exactly like Western parliaments policy to make sure nothing against their values get passed...

As far as there are representatives that get elected by people, directly or semi-directly... and as far as their elected representatives are happy with their mass-wanted rules and values... it is democracy

 

[Moon]

I understand what you are saying, thanks for answering, but no sis, it's not right to blame 'both equally', and if you compare number of terrorist attacks by Saudi inspired groups in Pakistan and those of Shias (which ironically, most of them have been solely for self defense against LeJ terrorists), you'll understand that it's neither fair nor logical to blame both on the same level.

The thing that angers me here is the number of Pakistanis here talking $hit about how 'evil' Iran is supporting non existent terrorists in Pakistan while only a few number of them hold Saudi and ex-Pakistani govs responsible. It's natural for humans to blame their problems on outsiders, but what I'm seeing here is, this blame game has taken a sectarian tone. Iran is bad because it's Shia, Saudi is not that bad because it's Sunni. I did a research before on previous Shia 'terror' groups in Pakistan and I barely found any attack by Shias against civilians, but yes, they also exist. And if there is such attack, it's automatically blamed on Iran, because Iran is responsible for every action of every self proclaimed Shia in the world, as they see it.

Please understand me when I find this thread very stupid and biased, I'm not saying Iran is innocent, I'm saying some people are deliberately pushing their sectarian agenda to antagonize Iran.

The thing that most of them fail to see (and you mentioned well) is that former Paksitani gov is the main culprit, you know better than me what a nasty game it played in Afghanistan, opening door to Saudi Madrassas, all thanks to General Zia and his ambitions. It backfired and the blame went from inside to outside sources, e.g Iran. This is not fair.

I am seeing frequent bombings targeting Shias and in other cases Sunnis all by self proclaimed 'Sunni terrorists'. Now compare them to number of 'terrorists' allegedly trained by Iran who have launched terror attacks like those of Peshawar massacre. Karachi attacks or Quetta bus killings.



What Pakistan did in Yemen was for its own interest and it was a rational decision, it was not a 'favor' for Iran, but yes, it was also in our interests.

Okay, not give me a list comparing list of terror attacks against civilians by TTP, LeJ and other takfiri groups and those launched by 'Iran-trained terrorists' as you claim.

Believe me it has got to do with stable relations with Iran, more than anything else.
Lets not bring this into a sectarian argument as I don't give a damn about Shias, Sunnis, Wahabis, Qadanis whatsoever, the more you try to interact with them the more you will be dragged down, I know what TTP and the lot has done, and you know it too and we both agree it's bad for everyone. However you seem to give the impression of denial that Iran too is guilty, however lets not just talk about civilians but also innocent people:
1) 2012 attacks on Israeli diplomats. (the list is in a random pattern).

• The blowing up of a van filled with explosives in front of the U.S. embassy in Beirut killing 58 Americans and Lebanese in 1984
• Hijacking of TWA flight 847
• 19883 Kuwait bombings
• Flight 901 Attack.

There are many more but it's late and I'm drowsy.

 

[Dubious]

What do u mean? let's apply this to UK:

One council guard the rules and the PM candidas to make sure they are not against principal constitution of UK (they don;t have constitution the way we know it..but a bunch of historical laws collected when the one specific case happened) and the queen...

One council to make sure it is against the principals of constitution and queen?

You think democracy is only what is practiced in West? Democracy basis is the system that people of one country rule themselves by choosing representatives by people through votes... either direct votes or through elected Parliament members...

UK as far as I understand civil courts dont follow a religious scripture....

Democracy chooses 1 person through votes but it represents EVERYONE....Real democracy is a myth...coz no 1 person can represent millions!

This means if the representatives of one country want the punishment of death to murderers and drug traffickers...then it is %100 democracy... IF they want it to be in a form to make sure no laws against Shia is going to pass it is democracy....

It is exactly like Western parliaments policy to make sure nothing against their values get passed...

As far as there are representatives that get elected by people, directly or semi-directly... and as far as their elected representatives are happy with their mass-wanted rules and values... it is democracy

What about against sunni? Oh yea they dont have rights, is that what you are trying to say? I for one know Iran isnt THAT biased! Though I am not familiar with your laws but 1 thing I know it isnt biased but you are trying a little too hard to show it is!

 

[Moon]

Hey that is refreshing. I like your style. I am 100% cool with that. Thumbs up .....

Thanks , this is what I'm trying to say, Sunnis and Shias are both targeted by the same thugs, they attack the lot in order to gain support, have you heard about a story of a bat who changes sides with birds and then with land creatures when they are winning, well they are the bats and just like the story we have to ignore them and in fact gang up on them to psychologically wear them down and bring them into isolation, as of today we need to focus on factors which unite us and not those which divide us .

 

[Dubious]

Thanks , this is what I'm trying to say, Sunnis and Shias are both targeted by the same thugs, they attack the lot in order to gain support, have you heard about a story of a bat who changes sides with birds and then with land creatures when they are winning, well they are the bats and just like the story we have to ignore them and in fact gang up on them to psychologically wear them down and bring them into isolation, as of today we need to focus on factors which unite us and not those which divide us .

Sadly psychologically they are winning in the sense tearing and dividing us as they planned ...

 

[Indus Pakistan]

What do u mean? let's apply this to UK:

One council guard the rules and the PM candidas to make sure they are not against principal constitution of UK (they don;t have constitution the way we know it..but a bunch of historical laws collected when the one specific case happened) and the queen...

One council to make sure it is against the principals of constitution and queen?

You think democracy is only what is practiced in West? Democracy basis is the system that people of one country rule themselves by choosing representatives by people through votes... either direct votes or through elected Parliament members...

In UK the system relies on historical evolved understanding called conventions. The system is more than just counting heads but also relies on liberal values which are espoused by the ruling class. Essentially when elections are held in UK you do not really get a free chance to vote anybody. There is no 100% real freedom because that is equates with demagoguery which is not the same thing as liberal democracy.

What in fact happens is you get to freely vote for candidates who have been screened and are all from the ruling consenus or the liberal elite. You rarely get a candidate who is from outside this group. Therefore these MPs always have similar views although within themselves they may have left or right leaning.

They all tend to be liberal, pro gay, against racism, against gender bias and against other form of discrimination. The only real diffeeance between them is just millimetres. If that was not the case when some Muslim's blew bombs in London the public would have voted to kick every Muslim out of UK.

This means if the representatives of one country want the punishment of death to murderers and drug traffickers...then it is %100 democracy... IF they want it to be in a form to make sure no laws against Shia is going to pass it is democracy....

It is exactly like Western parliaments policy to make sure nothing against their values get passed...

As far as there are representatives that get elected by people, directly or semi-directly... and as far as their elected representatives are happy with their mass-wanted rules and values... it is democracy

Thanks , this is what I'm trying to say, Sunnis and Shias are both targeted by the same thugs, they attack the lot in order to gain support, have you heard about a story of a bat who changes sides with birds and then with land creatures when they are winning, well they are the bats and just like the story we have to ignore them and in fact gang up on them to psychologically wear them down and bring them into isolation, as of today we need to focus on factors which unite us and not those which divide us .

Words of wisom there.^ Yes, I agree it is a disease that has afflicted our people of all backgrounds. Everybody goes running around growing longer and longer beards, more prayers, more pious yet the most vile incidents are happening every weak.

Why is it in UK I see Pakistani Pashtun, Punjabi, Kashmiri, Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Ahmedi all living in peace but in our great "citadel of Islam" the Islamic Republic of Pakistan we are all killing each other on the flimsiest excuse ....

I despair sometimes.

 

[scythian500]

I am not secular nor ever declared so!


When you talk of shia you talk of the victims but when you talk of sunni dead people you talk as though ALL of them even the children and women shot were carrying an atom bomb! Look whose the biased person now? Do you think those sunni who die dont have feelings and wont retaliate? Try thinking of both as human beings with feelings for once!

THIS is why I blame both sides!

2ndly, why wouldnt the Shia have justice? we have both SUNNI AND SHIA ulema who wield the shariah and Islamic council of Pakistan....We have had Zaradari a SHIA president and numerous other SHIA generals....our GOVERNMENT either isnt interested in their own school of thought or dont care for the daily man...I know the latter to be true but then the former should also be the case for ALL THE SUNNI politicians and govt...Hence, same fate for both...Conclusion: no one is getting anything unless you have $$$$$$

As for the Salafi bloodshed...Just like I have no proof of SHIA involvement sadly many have no proof of Sunni involvement...Any asshole can come up and say I am Sunni and kill people and all eyes will fall on sunni ....

And hence why I blame both sides! Coz if these Salafi are stupidly intelligent not be found in their caves, then how can they be stupid enough to promote their school as a murder school?

I talked about a gov that take revenge of Shia victims by crashing those Takfiri groups...



In Pakistan the killings arent solely Shia/ Sunni some are sectarian...others are for Baluchistan crap and MANY are for numerous stupid things from land to even fighting whose bloody Mullah is more accurate!


Do you think NOT A SINGLE sunni dies in Pakistan? THE day you set foot in Pakistan than dare to talk to me about my country and my people (BOTH SUNNI AND SHIA are MY PEOPLE)


Who gave you this figure and thought? We dont respect politicians but you concluding this is equally delusional like an PDF indian conjuring shit from his brain!


THERE is a LARGE difference in recognizing a govt and trusting its justice system...Sure half of us prob dont trust the justice system....Sure more than half of us are just not educated enough to know the difference between a tribal self proclaimed judge from a real one who has a degree or the one who sits in high court with a fake degree or via references....The system isnt perfect but claiming half of us dont recognize it is delusional at its best!


Just a while back you were asking me if they wont take revenge and now you are talking about power of the govt? WOW! talk about level of incoherence!




Unless it is raining shia I am not sure where you are going!

with shia victims and OTHER shia in Pakistan!


Defending themselves does not involve funding terrorism...Let me guess you either didnt watch the video in OP or you simply didnt understand the topic at hand...


Well the govt found, Iranian hands as equal aggressors, now what?


And what of the newly discovered Persian hand in the story?


Suppressed or shooed across the border into Pakistan?


What the hell do you think our army is doing in the Northern areas? Playing cricket?

Grow up kid! GROW UP!

ok brother... If you read well my posts you see that I never said Sunni lives are wasted... I know what kind of sick people are doing these barbarian attacks in Paskitan... They are not shia... they are not sunni... they are Wahhabi's who just explored how real Islam is!!!
I,m sure you got my overal point... playing with words won't help...
Shia are exposed to extermination by a savage group X... They are threatened to death all... They witnessed hundreds of these attacks and never governemt could stop it from occuring... They expect governemnt to protect them and not letting this happen again... If they find gov capable of preventing this attacks, they never do it by themselves....
IF shia in response to their explosions, exploded a place with innocent children in it, then I condemn those shia too...

It is a common knowledge that Shia organisations lnever Takfir anyone... they only declared Takfiris as not being Muslims...

Sunni blood is as precious as Shia one... no doubt... but if your family get attacked by a group X and after many attacks you just decided to defend yourself while you see no gov capability in preventing these attacks...do you blame your family to defend yourself or your aggressors in first place and the gov that can not prevent these massacres?

why while all world knows that Saudi funded Madrassas are the hole of snakes and they are destroying pakistan by creating brain-less blind Takfiris, the government do nothing?

This video as @Serpentine said is just a baseless video that is trying to put the blame on outsiders... I don't think Iran will ever do anything like this in Paksitan... If ever they did so then I condemn it...

Let it this way:

Don't protect shia from Takfiris....just protect Pakistanis from other Pakistanis... could you gov do that?

You said you army is fighting them in north pakistan.. ok, either your army is not a capable one or they don't really want this to stop... come on my friend... since I was a kid I hear news of bombings that killed shia and sometimes Sunni pakistanis (army students i.e)

Do you think no group or country wanted to explode bombs in public places in Iran? Iranian secret services and Basiji teams get thousands of these terrorists busted in last few years... They want to do whatever they do in Pakistan and other countries, in Iran too...but a capable government and a truthful and honest secret service suffocate them in sperm form... only last week we had over 30 bombing attempts that get busted by security forces...see? It is not about sunni shia...it is about a capable government that people can trust and is capable enough to avoid any such incidents to happen...

 

[Dubious]

Don't protect shia from Takfiris....just protect Pakistanis from other Pakistanis... could you gov do that?

They arent exactly playing checkers away from the families hunting these people down while away from family and friends! And their family members arent exactly dancing ...but have their breaths held! SO quit saying we are doing nothing!

 

[scythian500]

@scythian500 @Serpentine I am Pakistani of Sunni extraction. I would not as a normative mention my persuation however given the subject I feel it is necceassry to show solidarity with victims and to bridge this stupid, vile and disgusting sectarianism. Those who are into this sectarism are doing the devils handiwork nothing more nothing less. I have to go now to eat but I wish the best to all Shia and to my Iranian brothers and sisters.

To all Pakistani here we have to condemn this type of internal coinflict fro whereever it comes that is eating us up from inside ..

exactly... we shia people are peaceful ones... we condemn any such attacks... be it from Wahhabi (not sunni) groups or other maniacs... I personally have no problem living peacfully with any sect not just Sunnis... I have some Sunni friends in IRan and we never ever even remember the differences... we are all Iranian citizens and are passionate about our country and advances... 21th century is the century of putting differences aside and unit in order to win even higher mountains...

The west put its differences aside after millions of dead in wars in Europe and now realized they will be better and stronger united... now, compare that with this:

Zahi Khalfan of UAE Police said, we are spending $10 billion a year to convert Iranian shias to Sunni True Islam!!

خلفان: سنعيد إيران سنّية كما كانت بإذن الله وينشئ جمعية لنشر “التسنّن” برأسمال 10 مليارات دولار | رأي اليوم
دوت مصر | ضاحي خلفان: جمعية نشر "التسنن" جاهزة
خلفان: جمعية نشر التسنّن بمواجهة إيران جاهزة.. وسيكون لها 10 مليارات دولار سنويا - CNNArabic.com
أخبار 24 | "خلفان": جمعية "نشر التسنن" لإعادة إيران سنية جاهزة.. وميزانيتها 10 مليارات دولار

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Before I go I tell you guy's one thing. We are not going to get anywhere if we, the Pakistani, Iranian's, Afghan's and rest can't get a semblance of unity like Europe and the West has done. We are just going to get bombed, killed by the West whilst we are killing each other.

Go to the West and watch how American soldiers will shoot a Shia, Sunni, Iranian or Pakistani like animals .

Don;t forget that guy's ..

 

[scythian500]

They arent exactly playing checkers away from the families hunting these people down while away from family and friends! And their family members arent exactly dancing ...but have their breaths held! SO quit saying we are doing nothing!

Is it really all that Pakistani powerful army can offer? What about its secret service that many times accused of being in their side instead of busting their ashes...?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

exactly... we shia people are peaceful ones... we condemn any such attacks... be it from Wahhabi (not sunni) groups or other maniacs... I personally have no problem living peacfully with any sect not just Sunnis... I have some Sunni friends in IRan and we never ever even remember the differences... we are all Iranian citizens and are passionate about our country and advances... 21th century is the century of putting differences aside and unit in order to win even higher mountains...

The west put its differences aside after millions of dead in wars in Europe and now realized they will be better and stronger united... now, compare that with this:

Zahi Khalfan of UAE Police said, we are spending $10 billion a year to convert Iranian shias to Sunni True Islam!!

خلفان: سنعيد إيران سنّية كما كانت بإذن الله وينشئ جمعية لنشر “التسنّن” برأسمال 10 مليارات دولار | رأي اليوم
دوت مصر | ضاحي خلفان: جمعية نشر "التسنن" جاهزة
خلفان: جمعية نشر التسنّن بمواجهة إيران جاهزة.. وسيكون لها 10 مليارات دولار سنويا - CNNArabic.com
أخبار 24 | "خلفان": جمعية "نشر التسنن" لإعادة إيران سنية جاهزة.. وميزانيتها 10 مليارات دولار

I know. The worst crime nature ever commited was bearing so much oil in the sands of Arabia ...
Here we are today ...
Money buy's power and influence which is why it is even difficult to mention this now ...

 

[Dubious]

Is it really all that Pakistani powerful army can offer? What about its secret service that many times accused of being in their side instead of busting their ashes...?

Question is what is irani army offering by doing nothing? If you thing this is as simple as "thats all folks" then I suggest you pick up your weapons and head to our Northern areas...if you dont pee in your pants within hrs then I might listen to what you have to say and smirk!