VEVAK
SENIOR MEMBER
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You have no idea what you are talking about, clearly.
Go here, and you will find the details of this package of proposed sales (Congress would still have to approve): http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/archives/201010.
Specifically, there are 4 proposed sales to Saudi Arabia in October 2010:
Saudi Arabia - AH-64D APACHE, UH-60M BLACKHAWK, AH-6i Light Attack, and MD-530F Light Turbine Helicopters
Also included are
- 36 AH-64D Block III APACHE Helicopters
- 72 UH-60M BLACKHAWK Helicopters
- 36 AH-6i Light Attack Helicopters
- 12 MD-530F Light Turbine Helicopters
- 243 T700-GE-701D Engines
- 40 Modernized Targeting Acquisition and Designation Systems/Pilot Night Vision Sensors
- 20 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars with Radar Electronics Unit
- 20 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer
- 171 AN/APR-39 Radar Signal Detecting Sets
- 171 AN/AVR-2B Laser Warning Sets
- 171 AAR-57(V)3/5 Common Missile Warning Systems
- 318 Improved Countermeasures Dispensers
- 40 Wescam MX-15Di (AN/AAQ-35) Sight/Targeting Sensors
- 40 GAU-19/A 12.7mm (.50 caliber) Gatling Guns
- 108 Improved Helmet Display Sight Systems
- 52 30mm Automatic Weapons
- 18 Aircraft Ground Power Units
- 168 M240H Machine Guns
- 300 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles
- 421 M310 A1 Modernized Launchers
- 158 M299 HELLFIRE Longbow Missile Launchers
- 2,592 AGM-114R HELLFIRE II Missiles
- 1,229 AN/PRQ-7 Combat Survivor Evader Locators
- 4 BS-1 Enhanced Terminal Voice Switches
- 4 Digital Airport Surveillance Radars
- 4 Fixed-Base Precision Approach Radar
- 4 DoD Advanced Automation Service
- 4 Digital Voice Recording System
The estimated cost is $25.6 billion.
- trainers,
- simulators,
- generators,
- munitions,
- design and construction,
- transportation,
- wheeled vehicles and organization equipment,
- tools and test equipment,
- communication equipment,
- Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems,
- GPS/INS,
- spare and repair parts,
- support equipment,
- personnel training and training equipment,
- publications and technical documentation,
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of program support.
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sale...lackhawk-ah-6i-light-attack-and-md-530f-light
Saudi Arabia - AH-64D APACHE Longbow Helicopters
Also included are
- 24 AH-64D Block III APACHE Longbow Helicopters
- 58 T700-GE-701D Engines
- 27 Modernized Targeting Acquisition and Designation Systems/Pilot Night Vision Sensors
- 10 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars with Radar Electronics Unit (Longbow Component)
- 10 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer
- 27 AN/APR-39 Radar Signal Detecting Sets
- 27 AN/AVR-2B Laser Warning Sets
- 27 AAR-57(V)3/5 Common Missile Warning Systems
- 54 Improved Countermeasures Dispensers
- 28 30mm Automatic Weapons
- 6 Aircraft Ground Power Units
- 48 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles
- 106 M299A1 HELLFIRE Longbow Missile Launchers
- 24 HELLFIRE Training Missiles
- 1,536 AGM-114R HELLFIRE II Missiles
- 4,000 2.75 in 70mm Laser Guided Rockets
- 307 AN/PRQ-7 Combat Survivor Evader Locators
- 1 BS-1 Enhanced Terminal Voice Switch
- 1 Fixed-Base Precision Approach Radar
- 1 Digital Airport Surveillance Radar
- 1 DoD Advanced Automation Service
- 1 Digital Voice Recording System
The estimated cost is $3.3 billion.
- trainers,
- simulators,
- generators,
- training munitions,
- design and construction,
- transportation,
- tools and test equipment,
- ground and air based SATCOM and line of sight communication equipment,
- Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems,
- GPS/INS,
- spare and repair parts,
- support equipment,
- personnel training and training equipment,
- publications and technical documentation,
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of program support.
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/saudi-arabia-ah-64d-apache-longbow-helicopters
Saudi Arabia - AH-64D Longbow Helicopters, Engines and Night Vision Sensors
Also included are
- 10 AH-64D Block III APACHE Longbow Helicopters
- 28 T700-GE-701D Engines
- 13 Modernized Targeting Acquisition and Designation Systems/Pilot Night Vision Sensors
- 7 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars with Radar Electronics Unit (Longbow Component)
- 7 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer
- 13 AN/APR-39 Radar Signal Detecting Sets
- 13 AN/AVR-2B Laser Warning Sets
- 13 AAR-57(V)3/5 Common Missile Warning Systems
- 26 Improved Countermeasures Dispensers
- 26 Improved Helmet Display Sight Systems
- 14 30mm Automatic Weapons
- 6 Aircraft Ground Power Units
- 14 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles
- 640 AGM-114R HELLFIRE II Missiles
- 2,000 2.75 in 70mm Laser Guided Rockets
- 307 AN/PRQ-7 Combat Survivor Evader Locators
- 1 BS-1 Enhanced Terminal Voice Switch
- 1 Fixed-Base Precision Approach Radar
- 1 Digital Airport Surveillance Radar
- 1 DoD Advanced Automation Service
- 1 Digital Voice Recording System
The estimated cost is $2.223 billion.
- trainers,
- simulators,
- generators,
- training munitions,
- design and construction,
- transportation,
- tools and test equipment,
- ground and air based SATCOM and line of sight communication equipment,
- Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) systems,
- GPS/INS,
- spare and repair parts,
- support equipment,
- personnel training and training equipment,
- publications and technical documentation,
- U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services, and other related elements of program support.
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sale...-helicopters-engines-and-night-vision-sensors
Saudi Arabia – F-15SA Aircraft
Also included are:
- 84 F-15SA Aircraft
- 170 APG-63(v)3 Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar (AESA) radar sets
- 193 F-110-GE-129 Improved Performance Engines
- 100 M61 Vulcan Cannons
- 100 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution
- System/Low Volume Terminal (MIDS/LVT) and spares
- 193 LANTIRN Navigation Pods (3rd Generation-Tiger Eye)
- 338 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS)
- 462 AN/AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles (NVGS)
- 300 AIM-9X SIDEWINDER Missiles
- 25 Captive Air Training Missiles (CATM-9X)
- 25 Special Air Training Missiles (NATM-9X)
- 500 AIM-120C/7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
- 25 AIM-120 CATMs
- 1,000 Dual Mode Laser/Global Positioning System (GPS)
- Guided Munitions (500 lb)
- 1,000 Dual Mode Laser/GPS Guided Munitions (2000 lb)
- 1,100 GBU-24 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bombs (2000 lb)
- 1,000 GBU-31B V3 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) (2000 lb)
- 1,300 CBU-105D/B Sensor Fuzed Weapons (SFW)/Wind Corrected Munitions Dispenser (WCMD)
- 50 CBU-105 Inert
- 1,000 MK-82 500lb General Purpose Bombs
- 6,000 MK-82 500lb Inert Training Bombs
- 2,000 MK-84 2000lb General Purpose Bombs
- 2,000 MK-84 2000lb Inert Training Bombs
- 200,000 20mm Cartridges
- 400,000 20mm Target Practice Cartridges
- 400 AGM-84 Block II HARPOON Missiles
- 600 AGM-88B HARM Missiles
- 169 Digital Electronic Warfare Systems (DEWS)
- 158 AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Targeting Systems
- 169 AN/AAS-42 Infrared Search and Track (IRST) Systems
- 10 DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods
- 462 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System Helmets
- 40 Remotely Operated Video Enhanced Receivers (ROVER)
- 80 Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Pods
The estimated cost is $29.432 billion.
- the upgrade of the existing Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) fleet of seventy (70) F-15S multi-role fighters to the F-15SA configuration,
- the provision for CONUS-based fighter training operations for a twelve (12) F-15SA contingent,
- construction,
- refurbishments, and
- infrastructure improvements of several support facilities for the F-15SA in-Kingdom and/or CONUS operations,
- RR-188 Chaff,
- MJU-7/10 Flares,
- training munitions,
- Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices,
- communication security,
- site surveys,
- trainers,
- simulators,
- publications and technical documentation,
- personnel training and training equipment,
- U.S. government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistical support services, and other related elements of logistical and program support.
Source: http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/saudi-arabia-f-15sa-aircraft
TOTAL: US$ 61.455 billion
In short, the proposed deals involve far more than 'just' the aircraft. Munitions and spare parts aside, there's a lot of 'after sales services', including training, often over a period of many years (the article Vevak quoted speaks of 5 to 10 years).
Taking the value of the deal and deviding by number of aircraft is a rather simplistic way to assess the procurement cost of an aircraft.
Compare for example the second and third package, for 24 and 10 Apache respectively. (US$3.3 billion / 24 = US$137.5 million "per aircraft" versus US$2.2 billion / 10 = US$ 222.3 million "per aircraft"). So, within the same package, there are vastly differing 'unit costs' this way, for exactly the same aircraft. Another way of looking at this is that 14 extra Apaches apparently cost only $80 million each (difference in deal values / 14), compared to US$222.3 million for the first 10). Indications that this is not a good method.
Certainly not a straight comparision with procurement unit cost from the US Defence budget. You have yet to show that the USAF would have to pay less, for the same package.
Please also note that this US information is available to anyone of the general public with internet. I have yet to see any such data for Iran (so, if it is available, do feel invited to reference or post it)
I don't have the time to go read every single detail but what It looks like to me is what they call accessorizing and the absurd thing is these are equipment that should have already been installed on the platform and not only are they charging them for it but selling them 2-4 extra ones.
Regardless, even paying $100 Million USD to procure a single Apache helicopter with all it's weapons, upgrades, spares,... is absurd!!!
FYI logistical support is not optional for the Saudi's they are literally not allowed to maintain their own aircrafts that they paid over $100 million USD for.
So don't tell me you can keep an F-35 in your fleet for a year with even $300 million USD because this is how the game is played.
