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Iranian Chill Thread

I would say unlike Russia in the 1990's and early 2000's, there are no attempts on China's part to test out hypothetical prospects of integration or strategic partnership with a USA-led western block. China is firmly set for an adversarial course against Washington. The gigantic BRI project is basically Beijing's expected roadmap towards pole position in the framework of this very rivalry.

Therefore explanations for Beijing's policies ought to be sought elsewhere. Comments below could offer a partial insight into the question.





Claims by western analysts on a subject such as Iran-China relations, or Iran-Russia relations for that matter, should be met with reservations. Time will tell. What we can be sure of though, is that western sources will start issuing pessimistic assessments on Iran's relations with partners even as groundbreaking steps are effectively taken. Read on if you will for further details.





What Iran can do is to grant Chinese investment as well as the completion of international transport corridors the priority status they call for, if it's not been done already by the Ra'isi cabinet.

Ergo, and here we'll touch upon a decisive ramification of the problematic at hand, ditch once and for all the belief that oil should and can continue to fulfill the significant role it used to play for the past hundred years in the Iranian economy. And along with that, bury once and for all any remaining hopes of clinching some sort of a "deal" with the west whereby the latter would lift existing obstacles over the export of Iranian crude. The exponential rise of American domestic oil production coupled with the power of associated lobbies (to whom Iran would represent an unwanted competitor) mean that Iranian oil is never going to make a resounding comeback on international markets. It's never going to happen, simple as that.

Once this realization sinks in with the Iranian political class and the necessary conclusions are drawn, more efficient steps are bound to be taken in regard to Chinese investment. What substitute is there for oil as a guarantor of long term economic stability from Iran's perspective? Ultimately it ought to be the non-oil sector that takes over this role, industries and agriculture included.

But until this ambitious goal is fully met, and it must be pursued at full force, some parallel resource has to be relied upon. Not least because a transition of this kind never amounts to a cakewalk for a nation whose prime economic focus has seldom been on the industries. This involves much more than purely economic reforms, namely some upstream reshaping of deeply ingrained cultural mindsets.

So the answer lies in Iran's historic role as a global transport corridor stretching back to the Silk Road era and further yet, as the single most concentrated hub of strategic transport routes across the Eurasian continent. In terms of lending itself to the establishment of transport corridors, no country is blessed with a geographic location as beneficial as Iran's. This natural asset, whose massive prospective windfall becomes apparent in light of the staggering amounts China is planning to invest into its One Belt One Road initiative, must be made fruitful. Closely related to such corridors, Iran's trade sector blossomed over centuries. Remember how back in the day, Iranian traders played a key role in expanding Islam towards South and Southeast Asia.

The previously mentioned thinking of old, more or less beholden as it remains to the notion of a relatively large oil sector, takes time to vanish. It has nonetheless been an impediment to the exploitation of transit route opportunities to their full potential. Said potential according to some analysts is so vast that it could safeguard Iran's economic safety for the next hundred years. This is not merely a figure of speech: serious actors plan for different chronological horizons, including the very long one. China's plans are for the next hundred years. Hence why it would be misplaced to expect all too many erratic, sudden revisions of strategy or even tactics from PRC.

What remains to be examined at this point is how the different political camps in Iran have been tackling the issue and what their respective positions have been. Here it appears clearly that the Rohani administration literally squandered at least two golden opportunities (in 1394 and 1398) to seal an effective, large scale bilateral economic cooperation program with China. And it did so out of political and ideological conviction, seeing how it forbade itself to conceive of any solution for Iran outside the chimeric, counter-revolutionary liberal dream of normalization with the West. A third opportunity was lost in 1388 when radical liberals shouting "down with Russia, down with China" in the context of the failed "Green Movement" fitna, effectively prevented the second Ahmadinejad government from going ahead with the signature of major contracts with Beijing for fear of renewed unrest triggered by the liberal crowd.

What this resulted in, was the truly insulting reception of the Chinese president in the wake of the JCPoA's conclusion. Indeed, not only were ceremonial formalities kept to a minimum. Not only did Rohani convey to the Chinese that "if we sought close cooperation with you, we would not have spent years hammering out the JCPoA with western governments". But moreover, Rohani left Tehran for Rome while Xi was still in Iran for planned talks. And, upon exiting the airplane surrounded by Italian officials, Rohani exhibited one of those disgraceful laughters. This is on top of reports that Xi was given a room deprived of a water closet of its own during his stay in Tehran, and that he was thus compelled to use a shared one on the hotel floor. Mind you, Xi was the first major head of state to visit Iran after the JCPoA was concluded, and he had definitely come with a concrete offer which he put on the table to massively boost economic ties with and investment in Iran. His enthusiasm was shattered by the moderate administration's unbelievable conduct.

Now this begs the question, why should China be expected to do Iran any favors when their president is treated in such a manner during an official state visit which Beijing hoped would form the starting point of precisely the sort of enhanced bilateral cooperation we're envisaging? Up to this point it was squarely on the moderate Rohani administration and nobody else - other than NATO regimes and their clients in Riyadh which used their well funded media apparati (the Saudi International broadcasting network has been deeply involved in this) to keep tarnishing China's image with Iranian audiences exposed to their incessant propaganda, and to spread blatant falsehoods about the Islamic Republic and in particular the IRGC and revolutionary / principlist factions supposedly "selling out" the nation's wealth, even the whole island of Kish to the Chinese!

The drivel was echoed by the liberal (reformist and moderate) press as well as by a figure like Ahmadinejad. Of course there is no inkling of truth in such ludicrous stories, yet their proliferation makes it all the more difficult for Iranian decision makers to compensate for the previous administration's blunders on China relations, given the impact of said propaganda upon certain segments of Iranian public opinion. Enter seyyed Ra'isi's election to the presidency less than two years ago.

From what I could gather so far, it's too early to pass judgement as to whether or not the current cabinet is giving the dossier of Iran's bilateral relationship with China the necessary attention. This being the kind of topic which requires a special appointee to oversee the development of ties, and to work in tandem with specialized sub-commissions. This appointee must not be given other tasks to manage and they must be a high ranking current or former official, such as Ali Larijani who was fulfilling this role before. Above all, in preparation for Iran's economic futur the administration must be driven by firm political will to pursue alternatives to the JCPoA as well as to oil exports.

This said, there is an undeniable contrast in the geostrategic outlooks of the Rohani and Ra'isi administrations, which should not be lost on Beijing. If the Chinese consider both to be equally uninterested in propulsing Iran-China relations to the next level, they'll be committing a sizeable mistake in their calculations. In other words, taking it out on the current government because of the policies of the previous one would be particularly inappropriate in view of not just Iran's but of China's own interests as well.

Lastly, what about the Saudi and PGCC factor in all of this? One thing to note in this regard is that Beijing's interest in the PGCC is not primarily related to the OBOR / BRI, whose land component is the most important one. Their mutual partnership from China's standpoint revolves mostly around energy. For China, relations with Iran and with the PGCC in essence do not constitute a zero sum game, the recent controversial joint statement notwithstanding.

Another much less talked about parameter might be the zionist and Haifan Bahai one. Both these entities have non-negligible relations with and presence in China. But their hypothetical impact on China's policy towards Iran to my knowledge is yet to yield sufficient in depth research.

This leads me to the concluding point of the present discussion. As correctly highlighted by the source shared below, since the OBOR is pivotal to China's fundamental strategic planning, its relevance is reflected in scores of geopolitical events, crises, conflicts, and other international phenomena throughout the Eurasian landmass. By way of consequence observers are invited to pay attention to easily overlooked, OBOR-related causalities and implications in those mentioned occurrences.

As an example, there's another reading or better said a second, parallel angle to the Zangezur issue which none of us had talked about if I'm not mistaken: beyond the problematic of the "ethno"-separatist anti-Iranian agenda which the regime in Baku is regularly activating under the influence of Tel Aviv, which could pose a threat to Iran's territorial integrity, think for a second about what an occupation of the Zangezur area and contiguity between the Republic of Azarbaijan's two disconnected territorial portions could imply in terms of the New Silk Road project. Namely, a more direct railway connection between the port of Baku and Turkey, in lieu of the route from Baku to Turkey via Georgia. This would be in the framework of an alternative to the original OBOR corridor traversing northern Iran from East to West.

Nonetheless, the proposal remains inferior to the Iranian transit route, because it would involve crossing the Caspian by ship whereas the path through Iran enables direct and non-stop rail transportation from Xinjiang all the way to Europe. This is beside Turkey's NATO membership which Beijing might view as a latent risk factor of sorts. At any rate Iran enjoys the geographical position most conducive to the development of transport corridors. For Iran is at a crossroads, where the East-West BRI corridor would intersect with the International North South Transport Corridor (INSTC).

But analyze last year's turmoil in Kazakhstan with China's OBOR in mind. Same with the situation in Afghanistan. Even the conflict in Ukraine itself. This might also be part of the explanation behind China's apparent timidity in assisting Russia in its war effort. China needs to keep her options open with Eastern European countries including Ukraine. Its master plan for overtaking the USA hinges upon the success of the OBOR.

The tense situation along the borders between Belarus, Russia on the one hand and Ukraine, EU member states on the other only adds to the importance of Iran as a transport hub between China and Europe. Under multiple aspects, there is no satisfactory substitute to the Iranian route for China. It's up to the Iran government to make good use of this opportunity, and up to the Chinese not to miscalculate.

We can go a step further and ponder whether the geographic location of Iran's Sistan-Baluchestan province and Iran's Kurdish-speaking areas on the East-West corridor or close to it, is really unrelated to the fact that both these regions saw relatively higher levels of disturbances during recent riots.


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The above analysis was based to a considerable extent on the following presentation by Jedaal (as perceived through my personal lens):


To gain access to a more complete picture of what's going on, reading or listening to comprehensive analyses is the only option. And western sources are best avoided. So to those interested in the topic of Iran-China relations, I'd recommend listening to the above. It will answer your questions to a much better extent and far more accurately than "Twitter" one-liners and publications from western-controlled mainstream media or think tanks.
there is another route which will ignore both iran and russia ...



thats why recently China make good relationshipt with Turky ... in next war , china will completly support both Baku and turkey ... we should crush baku and teach a lesson to china and europe ...
 
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there is another route which will ignore both iran and russia ...



thats why recently China make good relationshipt with Turky ... in next war , china will completly support both Baku and turkey ... we should crush baku and teach a lesson to china and europe ...


China has a steady supply of cheap oil from Russia. Arabs are willing to cut their profits to sell to China in order to hurt Iranian coffers.

This “Silk Road” trade theory is just that, a theory. One that China worked around after being shunned by Iran under Obama/

The fact is a former Iranian ambassador has been very upfront of the mistakes. The Ahmadinejad and Rouhani administration shunned a Chinese strategic deal back in late 2000’s and post JCPOA because they believed the West would have lived up to its economic part of the agreement. At the time (according to ambassador) China came to Iran with a favorable strategic agreement with Iran at the center of its strategy (allegedly). However, Iran wanted to test out the West instead.

Fast forward to later on in Rouhani admin when they realized the futility and tried to pivot East. However, by this time China had largely made deals with other countries in the region and built ports and supply routes. Thus this time around China didn’t really need Iran and Iran had far less leverage for a favorable agreement.

Fast forward to now. China has the power and leverage. China doesn’t need Iran in any significant way. Even for cheap oil, since Russian oil is available in large amounts and Arabs are happy at undercutting Iran.

So Iran has little recourse after betting that the West would allow Iran back into the global economy. If it weren’t for the Ukraine-Russia conflict, Iran would be much more isolated today.

Iran does not have eternal time to fix its economic woes. The protests are growing and happening more frequently. Fissures are starting appear in the republic leadership and factions. Change needs to come fast or else political instability will start becoming the norm especially if the SL were to pass away before this isolationism and economic warfare is resolved in some fashion.
 
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China has a steady supply of cheap oil from Russia. Arabs are willing to cut their profits to sell to China in order to hurt Iranian coffers.

This “Silk Road” trade theory is just that, a theory. One that China worked around after being shunned by Iran under Obama/

The fact is a former Iranian ambassador has been very upfront of the mistakes. The Ahmadinejad and Rouhani administration shunned a Chinese strategic deal back in late 2000’s and post JCPOA because they believed the West would have lived up to its economic part of the agreement. At the time (according to ambassador) China came to Iran with a favorable strategic agreement with Iran at the center of its strategy (allegedly). However, Iran wanted to test out the West instead.

Fast forward to later on in Rouhani admin when they realized the futility and tried to pivot East. However, by this time China had largely made deals with other countries in the region and built ports and supply routes. Thus this time around China didn’t really need Iran and Iran had far less leverage for a favorable agreement.

Fast forward to now. China has the power and leverage. China doesn’t need Iran in any significant way. Even for cheap oil, since Russian oil is available in large amounts and Arabs are happy at undercutting Iran.

So Iran has little recourse after betting that the West would allow Iran back into the global economy. If it weren’t for the Ukraine-Russia conflict, Iran would be much more isolated today.

Iran does not have eternal time to fix its economic woes. The protests are growing and happening more frequently. Fissures are starting appear in the republic leadership and factions. Change needs to come fast or else political instability will start becoming the norm especially if the SL were to pass away before this isolationism and economic warfare is resolved in some fashion.
you are act like china sympathizer ...
They are an imperial power and they only seek their own interest , so we should do same . You try to see things in "good,bad" context , thats your problem ,


IMO the main ISI problem is that ISI old and almost fossil decision makers are stuck in 1980s and 1990s and don't want to change their foreign policies and internal policies at all cost ( That why they should let their underlings to have more share of Iran economic cake - by corrupt activities - to keep them behind themselves ). The ISI is biggest enemy is herself .

They should change this endless games by disrupting current unfavorable status quo which is make us like a frog boiling in water ...

ISI is losing its importance in regional issues , and due super capitalism policies in social economic context , its losing people support day by day , at least they have to keep themselves relevant in regional context ...

The most and low cost way for this is accruing nukes but Khamenei shoot ISI in the nee by his fatwa and now , ISI is like a man who sits on the saw ; they can't go ahead , they can't step back ....

I said this Fawa was wrong almost in 8-9 years ago in military.ir ( which lead to my reduce access in time and un-offical ban ) , so many people insulted me for I just saying my opinion (from both sides ) but day by day , I realize i was right ...

ISI only have 2 choice , be brave and make nukes and try to change status quo , or give up her claims in international affairs and be reduce to Taliban state ... at this rate their fate is sealed , they will collapse in Soviet union style ...
 
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you are act like china sympathizer ...
They are an imperial power and they only seek their own interest , so we should do same . You try to see things in "good,bad" context , thats your problem ,


IMO the main ISI problem is that ISI old and almost fossil decision makers are stuck in 1980s and 1990s and don't want to change their foreign policies and internal policies at all cost ( That why they should let their underlings to have more share of Iran economic cake - by corrupt activities - to keep them behind themselves ). The ISI is biggest enemy is herself .

They should change this endless games by disrupting current unfavorable status quo which is make us like a frog boiling in water ...

ISI is losing its importance in regional issues , and due super capitalism policies in social economic context , its losing people support day by day , at least they have to keep themselves relevant in regional context ...

The most and low cost way for this is accruing nukes but Khamenei shoot ISI in the nee by his fatwa and now , ISI is like a man who sits on the saw ; they can't go ahead , they can't step back ....

I said this Fawa was wrong almost in 8-9 years ago in military.ir ( which lead to my reduce access in time and un-offical ban ) , so many people insulted me for I just saying my opinion (from both sides ) but day by day , I realize i was right ...

ISI only have 2 choice , be brave and make nukes and try to change status quo , or give up her claims in international affairs and be reduce to Taliban state ... at this rate their fate is sealed , they will collapse in Soviet union style ...
What is this 'ISI' and is it edible.
 
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What is this 'ISI' and is it edible.
Islamic state of Iran

 
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Islamic state of Iran


Didn’t the EU do this as well for any comment found to be “pro-Russia” and “anti Ukraine” in the remotest possible way?

Most of these media comments are released by bots operated by intelligence agencies/activist organizations/state backed “think tanks”.

All I would say is be careful what you wish for in the fall of the Islamic state system in Iran.
Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Ukraine, Egypt, all should serve as powerful reminders of what follows is not necessarily any better.

No reason to believe Iran would be the combo breaker and lone exception in this trend.
 
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Didn’t the EU do this as well for any comment found to be “pro-Russia” and “anti Ukraine” in the remotest possible way?

Most of these media comments are released by bots operated by intelligence agencies/activist organizations/state backed “think tanks”.

All I would say is be careful what you wish for in the fall of the Islamic state system in Iran.
Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Ukraine, Egypt, all should serve as powerful reminders of what follows is not necessarily any better.

No reason to believe Iran would be the combo breaker and lone exception in this trend.
if we want to copy-past all wrong the west is doing then why is fighting with them ?

you can't use act of your enemy as justification ...
 
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if we want to copy-past all wrong the west is doing then why is fighting with them ?

you can't use act of your enemy as justification ...

I am saying all governments try to control masses and block information they feel can jeopardize their objectives or control wether they are western based or Islamic based.

Your example you posted is followed by governments of all ideologies around the worlds, yet in your case is being used to solely demonize an Islamic based one. This would imply that any other alternative form of government would not resort to such freedom restrictive tactics, when I just demonstrated precedent shows that they will.

The issue I have with [some] of my fellow countrymen is they cannot even agree what “change” they seek. Usually it is all over the place or at best too vague to be able to be put into concrete actionable reform(s).

Action without a plan is what fools do. Nor does mere hope bring a magical utopia after the fall.

In the chaos of downfall of one government, groups or factions battle for control with the strongest rising to the top. Usually they don’t become the strongest by being the most righteous or handing flowers to their rivals.

Food for thought. Good luck on your journey.
 
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there is another route which will ignore both iran and russia ...



thats why recently China make good relationshipt with Turky ... in next war , china will completly support both Baku and turkey ... we should crush baku and teach a lesson to china and europe ...
This route is not a valid route for a few important reasons.

First thing, you have to load and unload goods from a port, which adds alot of delay time which means increased cost + you extend transit through 2 additional countries instead of 1.

The countries you need to travel through, 1 of them is a NATO aspiring state who is best friends with a NATO state, the other also a NATO aspiring state, who is already a observer state with promised role inside NATO. These smaller states are also more vulnerable to NATO pressure. Not a good idea to rely on them for your trade route arteries.
 
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This route is not a valid route for a few important reasons.

First thing, you have to load and unload goods from a port, which adds alot of delay time which means increased cost + you extend transit through 2 additional countries instead of 1.

The countries you need to travel through, 1 of them is a NATO aspiring state who is best friends with a NATO state, the other also a NATO aspiring state, who is already a observer state with promised role inside NATO. These smaller states are also more vulnerable to NATO pressure. Not a good idea to rely on them for your trade route arteries.

Do you understand the route is to connect china to Europe which are NATO countries?
 
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Do you understand the route is to connect china to Europe which are NATO countries?
Yes, once you enter Europe your distribution network can go in several directions, that route that is being suggested is taking the entirety of China-EU trade and bottlenecking it into a small corridor of small nations that can be pressured by the US to impede trade. You also are not considering that both Georgia and Azerbaijan are in their own respective cold wars with neighboring states. Not exactly a safe place to build a route that would transit billions of dollars of goods.

On the other hand if you link China to Iran to Turkey, this route is very secure to be distributed to rest of Europe.
 
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Mass is unequivocally the reason that Ukraine is even in this fight at all, despite a qualitative disadvantage in equipment (less advanced tanks, artillery, air defence, radar, and equipment). Because when the Russians crossed the border on the 24th of February 2022, they did so with a force of 70k-80k strong, but facing against them was a Ukrainian army of 200k and a paramilitary of 100k. That is a greater than 3-to-1 force parity in favour of the Ukrainians (If we add in the Donbass militias to the Russians it drops a bit below 3-to-1). The general rule of thumb in military circles is that you want to outnumber your opponent by at least 3-to-1 if you are going to go on the offensive, since the defender has a lot of advantages.



Another reason why land invasion of Iran is impossible as long Iran remains an intact country. Even if Iran could only muster 500,000 defense forces (everyone else ran away or refused to fight the ‘freedom and democracy’ fighters) that would mean America + NATO would need to at the minimum muster 1M soldiers. However, Iran’s mountainous terrain means more than likely 1.5M soldiers to face against Iran even with the superior training, equipment, and logistics a western soldier has over an Iranian one.

This is simply inconceivable outside of a WW3 scenario. No politician would vote for such a war.
 
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there is another route which will ignore both iran and russia ...


Addressed this in my post. Yes they did propose such an alternate route via the Caucasus, but it has several disadvantages compared to the original East-West corridor passing through Iran:

- It involves both sea and land segments, which complicates transportation, heightening travel times and costs. The corridor through Iran however features a non-stop rail connection from the Chinese coastline all the way to western Europe.

- It crosses more countries, meaning increased risks. If the USA manage to destabilize only one of these, it will jeopardize the entire corridor. Furthermore it's easier for Washington to pressure governments in small countries.

- Despite the fact that Ankara has sought to diversify its foreign relations, Turkey remains a NATO member whereas Iran is a geostrategic and ideological opponent of NATO (and zionist) hegemony. To the Chinese Turkey's NATO membership represents a potential risk factor.

Iran will always be the single most attractive option for the southern BRI land corridor in this part of the continent.

thats why recently China make good relationshipt with Turky ... in next war , china will completly support both Baku and turkey ... we should crush baku and teach a lesson to china and europe ...

Even if they're expanding bilateral ties, Turkey unlike Iran has had a history of backing Uyghur separatism. Although Turkey seem to have backtracked to some extent, it's not something China can ignore.

Regardless of the above, in a war China is unlikely to support either side. Their policy is to stay out of these sorts of conflicts.

I 'd recommend listening to the Jedaal video. Here's the Aparat link if you can't access YouTube:

 
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China has a steady supply of cheap oil from Russia. Arabs are willing to cut their profits to sell to China in order to hurt Iranian coffers.
However, by this time China had largely made deals with other countries in the region and built ports and supply routes.

No working alternative to the Iranian East-West corridor has been established by China. Corridors circumventing Iran would either have to traverse the Caspian Sea or both the Caspian and the Black seas, and are fraught with various disadvantages compared to the Iran option. By virtue of geography alone, China will need Iran for the BRI.



you are act like china sympathizer ...
They are an imperial power and they only seek their own interest , so we should do same . You try to see things in "good,bad" context , thats your problem ,

The fact that the BRI land-based corridor leads through Iran is in Iran's interest. It generates revenue and has no particular downsides.
 
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Addressed this in my post. Yes they did propose such an alternate route via the Caucasus, but it has several disadvantages compared to the original East-West corridor passing through Iran:

- It involves both sea and land segments, which complicates transportation, heightening travel times and costs. The corridor through Iran however features a non-stop rail connection from the Chinese coastline all the way to western Europe.

- It crosses more countries, meaning increased risks. If the USA manage to destabilize only one of these, it will jeopardize the entire corridor. Furthermore Washington can pressure the governments of small countries with greater ease.

- Despite the fact that Ankara has sought to diversify its foreign relations, Turkey remains a NATO member whereas Iran is a geostrategic and ideological opponent of NATO (and zionist) hegemony. To the Chinese Turkey's NATO membership represents a potential risk factor.

Iran will always be the single most attractive option for the southern BRI land corridor in this part of the continent.



Even if they expand bilateral ties, Turkey unlike Iran has had a history of backing Uyghur separatism. Although Turkey seem to have backtracked to some extent, it's not something China can ignore.

Regardless of the above, in a war China is unlikely to support either side. Their policy is to stay out of these sorts of conflicts.

I 'd recommend listening to the Jedaal video. Here's the Aparat link if you can't access YouTube:

just check out China and Turkey economic relations and infrastucutre project china is doing in Turkey , compare it with china relation with Iran before making long posts ...

Uighur is a minority who are greatly suppressed and has no chance of standing against Hans in china , you are overrating them ...

This is close one

They are doing this for Turkey while they don't even willing to sell normal outdated metro wagons to Iran ...
 
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