Iranian Chill Thread

[SalarHaqq]

it change . it affect free market along side governmental sectors . right now you had some chance in free market . after that , it'll be zero and as i said it will be against Islamic guidelines

Contrary to a commonly held belief, free market - also referred to as capitalism in blunter and less surgar-coated terms, is not merely an economic system but also a cultural and anthropological order of its own. One which is in stark violation of core Islamic principles. Islam is incompatible with the capitalist and liberal scourge. Which is why our Supreme Leader, who has deep understanding of religion, has repeatedly blasted nezāme sarmāyedāri in unmistakable terms.

it will result in more dissatisfaction . it result in bazar join the unrest

A social credit system will improve and facilitate social control by the public authority. It will increase the cost of causing or participating in unrest. Once the infrastructure is built, rewards and sanctions will be easier and less time consuming to dispense than through classic means. It will also guarantee a more even and systematic application of the law. Citizens will therefore revise their cost-benefit analysis and be incentivized towards more law-abiding behavior under any circumstances. China has reaped ample benefits from this system, seeing how it has helped bolstering social stability.

the biggest cut throat are governmental banks . incidentally your suggestion won't change banks practices, and your suggestion is good in fact USA banking system is a lot more Islamic . what about sack all Iranian economical high and middle rank managers and ask USA to provide us manager for those ranks.

the solution is very simple but nobody want to do it as it cut their illegal benefits .
government must pull out of economic works and stop competing with private sector that effectively kill that sector and instead made a very strong regulation network to regulate any work in private sector to stop corruption that may occur or illegal activity like tax evasion

1) There's no remote comparison between the colossal mischief private banks in Iran have been responsible of, versus any and all irregularity committed by public banks. This is evidenced by concrete figures. Today private banks are in fact the main damaging factor to the Iranian economy.

Ra'efipour held an excellent speech recently on the topic, in which he went into detail about the corruption of private banks. No entity can possibly come close to their level of roguery and greed.

2) The USA banking system is nowhere "more Islamic". Claiming such a thing with a straight face would be beyond preposterousness.

A 1% cabal which, other than literally enslaving 99% of the American population, revels in the type of symbolism shown below, is as far apart from Islamic ethics as it gets, or from any form of intuitive decency for that matter:

Expanding a rabavi financial system is akin to waging war against God and His commandments.

This is the extent of Wall Street's methodical and systemic wickedness:

Liberal capitalist smokescreens and hoaxes are increasingly losing their persuasion power though. People the world over are waking up to the identity of their oppressors:

3) The most lucrative practices of corruption Iranian private banks are indulging in, have nothing to do with any alleged competition they may face from their state-owned counterparts.

The root of these practices lies in the principle of profit maximization which presides over any private enterprise, coupled with the boundless cupidity of banksters. Profit which flows directly into the pockets of private bank owners and CEO's. This is while the goal of public banks is not to maximize profits, and while their managers do not stand to gain to the same extent from rising margins.

Ever since private banking was authorized in Iran under the liberal Khatami administration, these accursed entities have gone on a rampage looting the country and sucking the blood of the working class and the middle class. They don't give a hoot about the well being of the common man, for that is not their motivation. Whereas public companies are tasked with pursuing the common good.

Therefore, transferring the entire banking sector into private hands will achieve nothing but to amplify the issue. The slightest loophole in the legal framework will be mercilessly exploited by private banksters. And given the complexity of this economic activity as well as the influence banksters are bound to exercise upon lawmakers, judges and the executive branch, there will always exist such loopholes no matter what.

The partial privatization of credit institutions was probably the single most detrimental macro-economic measure since the victory of the Islamic Revolution. In order for Iran to surmount its economic woes, a complete reversal is necessary in this regard. The private banks must be nationalized, there's no way around it. The sooner it happens, the better!

This is why no matter the amount of efforts liberals from the reformist / moderate front will put into trying to shield their capitalist associates, these thieving bandits will not be allowed to have their way.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Contrary to a commmonly held belief, free market - also referred to as capitalism in blunter and less surgar-coated terms, is not merely an economic system but also a cultural and anthropological order of its own. One which is in stark violation of core Islamic principles. Islam is incompatible with the capitalist and liberal scourge. Which is why our Supreme Leader, who has deep understanding of religion, has repeatedly blasted nezāme sarmāyedāri in unmistakable terms.

free market , acknowledging the right to property and receive compensation according to the amount of job you do than the amount of boot you lick is core principle of Islamic economy . what you stated just showed how little you knew about Islamic laws governing trade and economy.
that ridiculous proposal was just some modified communism idea.

A social credit system will improve and facilitate social control by the public authority. It will increase the cost of causing or participating in unrest. Once the infrastructure is built, rewards and sanctions will be easier and less time consuming to dispense than through classic means. It will also guarantee a more even and systematic application of the law. Citizens will therefore revise their cost-benefit analysis and be incentivized towards more law-abiding behavior under any circumstances. China has reaped ample benefits from this system, seeing how it has helped bolstering social stability.

it will kill innovation it increase brain drain , it favor incompetent boot lickers , it result hardship for the people who think critically and result in a system that incompetence and obeying without question is favored . it turn system into a system that owner of power and money can easily control masses to their advantages .
as usual another ill taught idea of yours . honestly little by little i began to think you are enemy third column by hearing such proposal from you left and right.

1) There's no remote comparison between the colossal mischief private banks in Iran have been responsible of, versus any and all irregularity committed by public banks. This is evidenced by concrete figures. Today private banks are in fact the main damaging factor to the Iranian economy.

as always first you think they are actually private while in fact they are controlled by companies that controlled by companies that belong to government or other power houses , they are not private they are just another scheme by government for denying any mischief and involvement in their antique and bypassing Supreme Audit Court of Iran everything they do is done by government
and more importantly the worst among them is our central bank which is legendary in mismanagement and responsible for the half of devaluation of Iran currency

Expanding a rabavi financial system is akin to waging war against God and His commandments.

and usa banking system is less rabvi than iran at least there you dont get 2000$ from bunk and had to give it back 15000$ , iran banking system can be summarized in two thing
Raba
Lottery
and everybody knew how Islamic they are

3) The most lucrative practices of corruption Iranian private banks are indulging in, have nothing to do with any alleged competition they may face from their state-owned counterparts.

The root of these practices lies in the principle of profit maximization which presides over any private enterprise, coupled with the boundless cupidity of banksters. Profit which flows directly into the pockets of private bank owners and CEO's. This is while the goal of public banks is not to maximize profits, and while their managers do not stand to gain to the same extent from rising margins.

again you think private banks are actually private

Therefore, transferring the entire banking sector into private hands will achieve nothing but to amplify the issue. The slightest loophole in the legal framework will be mercilessly exploited by private banksters. And given the complexity of this economic activity as well as the influence banksters are bound to exercise upon lawmakers, judges and the executive branch, there will always exist such loopholes no matter what.

privatizing it actually achieve a lot , a sham like what its right now to circumvent Supreme Audit Court of Iran is what achieve nothing
every single case of the corruption we had you see they were introduced by someone in high places and the bank could not say no because the manager simply would have lost his job and they put another one there who would have said yes

This is why no matter the amount of efforts liberals from the reformist / moderate front will put into trying to shield their capitalist associates, these thieving bandits will not be allowed to have their way.

just go see who owns the companies that control banks

 

[jauk]

If access to positions, amenities and services is conditioned upon individual connections anyway, then the introduction of such a system will not change much to the picture. Apart from offering a great framework which will bear fruit as soon as nepotism is reduced, that is.

It can be an excellent instrument of governance especially for Islamic Iran where social control is immensely complicated by the intrusion of very powerful existential enemies which operate through economic warfare, soft war, their intelligence agencies and last but not least an influential and parasitic fifth column within the political system.



The rabavi nature of the banking system - dominated by cut-throat corrupt private banks, is the biggest infringement to economic laws of Islam. That is what will have to be gotten rid of first and foremost.

I agree. This social credit system may be rife with possibilities of abuse. However, with correct governance it will have an enormous positive impact. Not only in Iran but globally. But yes, opportunity for abuse is a big issue that should be addressed.

 

[Stryker1982]

However, with correct governance it will have an enormous positive impact

You know very well theirs no such thing as correct governance, all governments in the world are corrupt and shouldn't be given this amount of power over people. This works well in textbooks and in theory, but in practice will be abused

 

[jauk]

You know very well theirs no such thing as correct governance, all governments in the world are corrupt and shouldn't be given this amount of power over people. This works well in textbooks and in theory, but in practice will be abused

I know no such thing. Your argument is self-referential. What I do know is that there is no correct governance CURRENTLY. Which the idea of social currency is to rectify. The best governance, IMO, is one that removes humans at least from tactical decision making.

If the fundamental notion is to improve governance--which I hope we all agree with--then social currency is a good option barring other better ones. As I said, conservative logic dictates best not to make change as it might make things worse. And the 'Logan's Run' scenario you're alluding to is a real risk but must be overcome if things were to improve.

 

[SalarHaqq]

free market , acknowledging the right to property and receive compensation according to the amount of job you do than the amount of boot you lick is core principle of Islamic economy . what you stated just showed how little you knew about Islamic laws governing trade and economy.
that ridiculous proposal was just some modified communism idea.

This contention suggests ignorance of all three regimes: capitalist, communist and Islamic. Either that, or my comment was not properly understood.

Where did I mention the right to property? Strawman.

Then, the notion that capitalism guarantees just compensation for the efforts accomplished by each person, is utterly delusional. Capitalism generates opposite conditions to this very principle acknowledged by Islam.

Also, to assume that critique of capitalism automatically implies communism, would smack of short-sightedness. The Supreme Leader as said has repeatedly rejected the capitalist order, yet he is no communist. And the realization that capitalism is more than a mere set of economic rules transcends the boundary between left and right: it has been correctly highlighted by liberal thinkers themselves as well as by their adversaries across the political spectrum.

Speaking of meritocracy, the social credit system precisely aims at fostering it and is designed to that very effect.

it will kill innovation it increase brain drain , it favor incompetent boot lickers , it result hardship for the people who think critically and result in a system that incompetence and obeying without question is favored . it turn system into a system that owner of power and money can easily control masses to their advantages .
as usual another ill taught idea of yours .

Abiding by the law and contributing constructively to society is not "boot licking". Not does the social credit system hamper innovation, on the contrary, it directly encourages novelty within the framework of fundamental principles governing society and the state, because these sorts of endeavors will be rewarded by social credit. Same goes for professional competence and expertise. China excels and has largely surpassed the decaying liberal west in this regard, and China has implemented an elaborate social credit program.

So you're mixing it all up. Unless, of course, the sort of "innovation" you're having in mind actually consists of subversion. Yes, that will luckily be contained by social credit.

As for the powerful and wealthy "controlling the masses" through social credit institutions, it's another total fallacy right there. Social credit is not allocated nor reduced based on arbitrariness but on the basis of a pre-determined, well defined, objective set of criteria; and it is the public authority, not some private interest group which puts it into practice.

Rule of private interest groups, of lobbies is exactly what liberal so-called "democracy" and capitalism are all about. The USA being a perfect example thereof. It's the order which you defend, that produces the effects you are lamenting.

As the 17th century French theologian Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet remarked: "God laughs at those who deplore the effects of which causes they cherish".

honestly little by little i began to think you are enemy third column by hearing such proposal from you left and right.

Says he who in almost every aspect has consistently expressing views which contrast starkly with and subvert the foundational precepts of the Islamic Revolution. Give us a break.

as always first you think they are actually private while in fact they are controlled by companies that controlled by companies that belong to government or other power houses , they are not private they are just another scheme by government for denying any mischief and involvement in their antique and bypassing Supreme Audit Court of Iran everything they do is done by government

The private banks are owned by private individuals who are enriching themselves on the back of the people.

and more importantly the worst among them is our central bank which is legendary in mismanagement and responsible for the half of devaluation of Iran currency

The Central Bank of Iran is no private institution.

Moreover, the figures are published and verifiable: it's the private banks which caused undue augmentation of the monetary mass, in such proportions that it could impossibly be matched by an equivalent increase in production. Hence the chronic inflation Iran has been grappling with in recent years. An inflationary phenomenon stemming from the malpractice of private banks which increase the monetary mass for the sole purpose of feeding their manifold fraudulent schemes and filling the pockets of their bankster proprietors and managers.

This falls squarely on the shoulders of the private banking sector, an organized criminal clique. And especially so since Rohani took over from Ahmadinejad. All of which is neatly explained by Ra'efipour, along with the relevant data, in the previously shared conference:

and usa banking system is less rabvi than iran at least there you dont get 2000$ from bunk and had to give it back 15000$ , iran banking system can be summarized in two thing
Raba
Lottery
and everybody knew how Islamic they are

The USA banking system is the prototype, the epitome, the source of emulation for not just reba but for any and all corrupt practices in the contemporary financial world. At least the Iranian one did not trigger a global financial crisis.

again you think private banks are actually private

privatizing it actually achieve a lot , a sham like what its right now to circumvent Supreme Audit Court of Iran is what achieve nothing
every single case of the corruption we had you see they were introduced by someone in high places and the bank could not say no because the manager simply would have lost his job and they put another one there who would have said yes

just go see who owns the companies that control banks

Firstly they are privately owned, not state-owned structures; and secondly, the assumption that powerful privately owned entities will not collude with government officials, that they will not be connected at the very sociological level, is blatant delusion. Suffice to look at liberal so-called "democracies" of the west, where those who hold political power and those who dominate the banks and industries constitute a single, tightly knit, closed off and exclusivist social microcosm, the infamous 1% which American people have been rising up against at Wall Street.

The only thing partial privatization of the banking sector has achieved in Iran is an astronomical rise in corruption to the detriment of the laboring masses, and the only thing all out privatization would lead to, is even more of the same.

The private banks must be nationalized, preferably through expropriation (their owners and managers have illicitly diverted enough money onto offshore accounts abroad, so the last thing they'd be entitled to is compensation).

 

[SalarHaqq]

@waz @LeGenD @Irfan Baloch @Amaa'n

Could this troll be made to stop spamming my every post with gratuitous laughter emoticons? The user has repeatedly been warned by you to cease this form of harassment but will obviously not comply. Thank you.

 

[Hack-Hook]

This contention suggests ignorance of all three regimes: capitalist, communist and Islamic. Either that, or my comment was not properly understood.

Where did I mention the right to property? Strawman.

Then, the notion that capitalism guarantees just compensation for the efforts done by each person, is utterly delusional. Capitalism generates opposite conditions to this very principle acknowledged by Islam.

you see everything as capitalism but leave in capitalist world and
and your suggestion undermine the right of property and equal income who think otherwise . so you are the master straw-man . who hide behind a wall of big words. you even as i previously proven don't have a definition for those words you use , don't knew what they mean . just randomly use them to say i knew more.still waiting for the line between western culture and eastern culture ? have you decided what is it ?
so please add what is capitalism to it .

The Supreme Leader as said has repeatedly rejected the capitalist order, yet he is no communist.

if you want to understand what supreme leader say , what he mean don't just look at his speech last week go study all his work even the ones he had made when he was young m that make you understand his speech well , he never suggested such nonsense as you suggested in your post. you just want to attach your skewed view of the world to him

Speaking of meritocracy, the social credit system precisely aims at fostering it and is designed to that very effect.

no your definition of meritocracy is nothing but a dystopic world that say value of people
is as much as they are boot-licker and hypocrite

Abiding by the law and contributing constructively to society is not "boot licking". Not does the social credit system hamper innovation, on the contrary, it directly encourages novelty within the framework of fundamental principles governing society and the state, because these sorts of endeavors will be rewarded by social credit. Same goes for professional competence and expertise. China excels and has largely surpassed the decaying liberal west in this regard, and China has implemented an elaborate social credit institution.

do you want to show you a sample of hypocrite that will be in favor in your world .

each time you saw the guy with supreme leader or Ahmadinejad he had a notebook and pen and was taking note from their talk , what he did with those notes only God knew as far as everyone is concerned it don't seems he ever looked at them again

Says he who in almost every aspect has consistently expressing views which contrast starkly with and subvert the foundational precepts of the Islamic Revolution. Give us a break.

yeah being against abandoning domestic product for import from Russia is that according to you guys . shows what i say is true

This is utterly baseless. The private banks are owned by private individuals who enrich themselves on the back of the people.

then put a day and two and research them
show you talked about Iran banking system while knew shit about it

The Central Bank of Iran is no private institution.

that's new , a private organization that president can appoint its governor and sack him when he want . it seems your definition of private organization is that i have nothing more to say not only you don't knew the meaning of words you use and you don't knew shit about Iran , you even don't knew the most basic about Iran

The USA banking system is the prototype, the epitome, the source of emulation for not just reba but for any and all corrupt practices in the contemporary financial sector. At least the Iranian one did not trigger a worldwide financial crisis.

don't change the discussion , rabba didn't cause world financial crisis , rabba have definition , when bunk give you 1000$ and expect you pay back 10000$ what its called ?

Firstly they are privately owned, not state-owned structures; and secondly, the assumption that powerful privately owned entities will not collude with government officials, that they will not be connected at the very sociological level, is blatant delusion. Suffice to look at liberal so-called "democracies" of the west, where those who hold political power and those who dominate the banks and industries constitute a single, tightly knit, closed off and exclusivist social microcosm, the infamous 1% which American people have been rising up against at Wall Street.

again show you don't knew anything

 

[SalarHaqq]

you see everything as capitalism but leave in capitalist world and
and your suggestion undermine the right of property and equal income who think otherwise . so you are the master straw-man . who hide behind a wall of big words. you even as i previously proven don't have a definition for those words you use , don't knew what they mean . just randomly use them to say i knew more.still waiting for the line between western culture and eastern culture ? have you decided what is it ?
so please add what is capitalism to it .

See, when someone resorts to ad hominem like you've been doing for the past two posts, it's that they've lost the argument.

My proposition nowhere "undermines the right to property". Could it be that comprehension issues are making you fantasize this way? Hence why you've failed to illustrate the assertion and are simply content with throwing it into the room.

Nor did you "prove" anything as to my mastery of concepts. What you resorted to is an attempt to divert the discussion, resulting in off topic rants about "definitions" because you didn't have anything of substance to counter my points with and had reached an argumentative dead end. Much like you do now. I'm not going to feed these sophistic games.

Bottom line, I addressed your contentions in detail. Kindly refrain from distracting when failing to challenge what it is you're quoting.

if you want to understand what supreme leader say , what he mean don't just look at his speech last week go study all his work even the ones he had made when he was young m that make you understand his speech well , he never suggested such nonsense as you suggested in your post. you just want to attach your skewed view of the world to him

All I highlighted in regards to the Supreme Leader, is that he has consistently (not just last week but over years) blasted the capitalist order in no uncertain terms, no matter how one may want to spin it.

And this is related to the fact that capitalism is much more than a mere economic system. It's an anthropological, all-encompassing order which rests upon the primacy of economy over other dimensions of human existence. In short, it views and reduces man to a homo economicus, thereby leaving no room for authentic spirituality and compromising man's submission to God. I know these considerations might be new to you, since you lack social science background. Of course this is not an issue onto itself, but nor is it a reason to dismiss said considerations out of hand and rely on simplistic binary models instead.

You may want to take up my suggestion and familiarize yourself with John Milbank's explanation about the faulty anthropological premise of capitalism, and you'll start understanding what I'm actually talking about. By the way, Milbank, a contemporary Anglican theologian and founder of the school of radical orthodoxy, is anything but a "communist" . In case you weren't privy to it, be informed that liberalism and capitalism have historically faced severe criticism not just from the left, but from the right as well.

This fundamental anthropological shortcoming of capitalism is something our beloved Leader is perfectly aware of, which is in fact what his statements on the topic reveal. So, I doubt you're in a position to tell me I need to study his work much more than I did.

no your definition of meritocracy is nothing but a dystopic world that say value of people
is as much as they are boot-licker and hypocrite

Empty talk.

do you want to show you a sample of hypocrite that will be in favor in your world .

each time you saw the guy with supreme leader or Ahmadinejad he had a notebook and pen and was taking note from their talk , what he did with those notes only God knew as far as everyone is concerned it don't seems he ever looked at them again

Off-topic.

yeah being against abandoning domestic product for import from Russia is that according to you guys . shows what i say is true

Never made such a statement. Mild dementia seems to be at play.

then put a day and two and research them
show you talked about Iran banking system while knew shit about it

I know enough to safely put to rest the rhetoric subterfuge you offered. And to shake my head in indignation at your implicit suggestion that the source I cited, Ali Akbar Ra'efipur, who spent not a few days but many years studying these topics in detail, is equally ignorant of the basics of Iran's banking sector.

that's new , a private organization that president can appoint its governor and sack him when he want . it seems your definition of private organization is that i have nothing more to say not only you don't knew the meaning of words you use and you don't knew shit about Iran , you even don't knew the most basic about Iran

Eh, sorry? Quick reminder: I clearly stated the CBI is no private institution. And in response, you're coming up with this balderdash as if I claimed the exact opposite?

You cannot pretend to "know" better while failing to pay attention to a most simple sentence.

don't change the discussion , rabba didn't cause world financial crisis , rabba have definition , when bunk give you 1000$ and expect you pay back 10000$ what its called ?

To begin with, I happened to first underscore the rabavi nature of the Iranian banking system, something our maraje' have repeatedly denounced, and I insisted that this is the first breach of Islamic rules in the economic field which Iran needs to fix. Have you forgotten already? If so, allow me to refresh your memory - it can be found right at the top of this very page:

Iranian Chill Thread

defence.pk

After turning upside down the meaning of an uncomplicated sentence, you're now rehashing my own point and assuming this will somehow achieve to contradict me? Please.

Then, I added that these corrupt financial practices - including but not limited to reba, aren't products of Islam nor of present day Iran with all its flaws, but of the capitalist west, of which the USA regime you're seemingly keen on whitewashing somehow, is the main exponent and archetype. If you wish to believe otherwise, you're free to do so but it would be detached from the ground reality.

again show you don't knew anything

Another gratuitous one-liner.

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[sammuel]

@waz @LeGenD @Irfan Baloch @Amaa'n

Could this troll be made to stop spamming my every post with gratuitous laughter emoticons? The user has repeatedly been warned by you to cease this form of harassment but will obviously not comply.

View attachment 883500

Thank you.

WOW , what a hypocrite :

SalarHaqq reacted to your post in the thread Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2 with
Haha
.
Sunday at 10:26 PM

SalarHaqq reacted to your post in the thread Iran Protests - Irani Girls Burning Their Veils !!! with
Haha
Tuesday at 3:11 PM


Why do you complain when others do the same as you ?

~

 

[SalarHaqq]

WOW , what a hypocrite :

SalarHaqq reacted to your post in the thread Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2 with
Haha
.
Sunday at 10:26 PM

SalarHaqq reacted to your post in the thread Iran Protests - Irani Girls Burning Their Veils !!! with
Haha
Tuesday at 3:11 PM


Why do you complain when others do the same as you ?

~

So you're comparing two rare eactions over the course of several days with this sort of impulsive spamming? :

Or this? :

Pay attention to the elapsed time in between two laughter reactions by the user. The second series consists of at least 17 in a matter of just a couple of hours.

The day I proceed similar to what's shown on the screenshots above, you may come and try drawing analogies.

Until then, kindly spare us these desperate attempts.

 

[sammuel]

So you're comparing two rare eactions over the course of several days with this sort of impulsive spamming? :

Or this? :

Pay attention to the elapsed time in between two laughter reactions by the user. The second series consists of at least 17 in a matter of just a couple of hours.

The day I proceed similar to what's shown on the screenshots above, you may come and try drawing analogies.

Until then, kindly spare us these desperate attempts.

Don't play dumb

I saw other members here have complained that you did the same to them , right here on this thread , so it is hardly your first time.

If you think something it wrong , than it matters not if you do it twice or 5 times.

~

 

[SalarHaqq]

Don't play dumb

I saw other members here have complained that you did the same to them , right here on this thread , so it is hardly your first time.

If you think something it wrong , than it matters not if you do it twice or 5 times.

~

If you have proof of me resorting to the same show it, else do not post lies.

I think violating forum rules is wrong. Rare occasional use of the laughing emoji, especially when it genuinely relates to the content of a post, is not against forum rules. Spam-reacting however is since it qualifies as harassment.

The difference between the two is clear to everyone, and I very ostensibly complained about spam-reacting, not about mere use of the function per se. You know this well, so it's you who's disingenuously trying to play dumb here. Not that it will get you anywhere.

Besides, this is for moderators to act upon, you're derailing the thread with out of place drivel.

 

[Hormuz]