Iranian Chill Thread

[Hack-Hook]

No it was very rare even in tehran. You should read these:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Turkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_South_Korea

not very rare compared to middle east , south asia , africa , south america , we were in front of them including south korea and turkey and even some of European countries

 

[Hack-Hook]

No it was very rare even in tehran. You should read these:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Turkey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_South_Korea

in turkey at the time the factories you mentioned have very limited production compared to iran-international and they belonged to foreign countries . iran-international belonged to Iran in 1978 even the engine of peykan were produced in Iran . Korea and turkey at the time relied on joint venture with other countries to produce cars

 

[SalarHaqq]

At the very least, one could see that the gap has not become smaller after the revolution, but in fact has grown multiple times wider.

The general economic gap started widening at an accelerated rate in the 1970's i.e. before the Islamic Revolution.

And as concerns the post-Revolution period, the same can be said about practically every other country on earth: their gap with south Korea has considerably increased over the last forty years. After all it's one of three or four most successful economies since the 1950's we're talking about.

This said, we should note that south Korea's economic development came at a staggering price in the broader picture. South Korean society is not exactly an environment where felicity reigns supreme, far from it. The forth highest suicide rate in the world as well as the worst demographic decline are expressions thereof. This is while contrary to the Iranian public, south Koreans have not been subjected to a 24/7 propaganda and psy-ops barrage by the world's superpower and its cohort of vassals, specifically taking aim at people's morale. Food for thought.

I mean there are many different ways to compare the two countries, but I don't want to use economy as just one factor for a country's progress. But If we want to rely on that, Iran's GDP per capita in 1979, the same country where you claim people were dirt poor, was one-third more than that of South Korea's.

South Korea, GDP per capita (1979): $1,783.62
Iran, GDP per capita (1979): $2,427.47 USD

I didn't mention poverty but how do these figures imply that a large percentage of Iranians weren't struggling with poverty? GDP is one thing, distribution of wealth is another.

Speaking of the living standards of Iranians, they are significantly higher nowadays than they used to be in the late 1970's. Nominal GDP isn't everything indeed.

https://djavadsalehi.com/2018/03/21...ard-of-iranians-higher-before-the-revolution/

Add to this the drastic improvements in popular access to basic infrastructures such as running water, electricity, gas as well as to health care, education and public transports under the Islamic Republic - all of these progressing at a significantly faster pace than during the Pahlavi era.

Iran has not been selling that much oil after the revolution. Right after the revolution, Iraq-Iran war happened which reduced our oil production from 5 million barrels per day to less than 1.5 million barrels per day. And I don't have to tell you that since 2009, Iran's oil exports have been hit really hardly (except for a short period after the JCPOA) and yet Iran is nowhere near countries like South Korea. So, if oil holds a country back, we have had a lot of time to catch up without relying on oil but is the gap closing now?

Oil does slow down economic development. It's a strategic commodity that has advantages of its own, but accelerating industrial development isn't one of them.

This is not a subjective opinion of mine but a largely consensual finding among economists, with a vast literature dedicated to the topic. The following paper offers a good starting point into an understanding of the corresponding mechanism:

W. M. Corden, Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics: Survey and Consolidation, Oxford Economic Papers, Vol. 36, No. 3 (Nov., 1984), pp. 359-380.

Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics: Survey and Consolidation on JSTOR

W. M. Corden, Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics: Survey and Consolidation, Oxford Economic Papers, New Series, Vol. 36, No. 3 (Nov., 1984), pp. 359-380

www.jstor.org

The appropriate conclusion is that other things being equal, the gap would have become larger had Iran continued to depend on oil to the same extent.

As a matter of fact, history suggests that war in itself stimulates rapid growth in technology and industry.

Depends on the war and its circumstances, as well as on the industrial sector considered. War can also cause irreversible damage to technology and industry and generate deep setbacks in this regard.

A lot of Iran's advances, and the self-reliance belief in most Iranians today, come from the fact that they have learned the hard way that when a country attacks you, you should rely only on yourself and nobody else.

This is why I observed that the groundwork for Iran's rapid advancement after the Imposed War was laid in the 1980's.

Fair enough. Neither was Turkey. Now compare Turkey's exports and Iran's.

View attachment 874980​

Other than the fact that the Turkish industry has not had to grapple with the adverse effects of a bloated oil sector, it's a consequence of Turkey's trade agreement with the EU, which itself has political and strategic motivations as much as economic ones. And the other side of the coin is that Turkey's economy is far more dependent on short-term debt than Iran's, and more susceptible to international financial crises.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran had 65% of its population as totally illiterate, and only 100,000 university students.

in 1979 , 100,000 university students in those times were not something to brush off

And it had no industries outside assembling cars and household electronics from fully imported components. We made abseloutely nothing.

assembling cars , in 1979 all of the peykan was produced inn Iran to the last part , assembling, don't make me laugh
something that china was interested to get from Iran some years later.

Today we have above 90% literacy rate and 4.2 million university students. and we actually have real industries of our own.

please top living in a fantacy world painted by propeganda outlets like the BBC and Manoto....

bring your hate somewhere else , we are comparing late 70s iran with late 70s korea and turkey not 2020s iran . at least look at the conversation and see what the discussion is about

 

[Hack-Hook]

Iran in the 1970's was definitely not ahead of South Korea. This is one of the most common clichés Iranian monarchists believe in, and it spread to the general Iranian public to a certain extent. However, it is not factual.

it was in 1978 iran produced all parts of peykan in iran , none of south korea auto maker manage to do that till years later

The first locally produced car in south Korea was the Sibal jeep. Production launch: 1955. Where was Iran's car industry in 1955?

you knew what that car was , they took engine of usa jeeps that was damaged beyound repair at the time and use oil drum and make those jeeps and since 1969 we were assembling cars , but knew what those 50s are not counted as we are comparing late 70s . at the time we were ahead of both turkey and south korea as all turkey auto makers belonged to european and south korea relied on joint venture with foreign companies . since 1978 we produced all parts of peykan inside of iran , when was that turkey and south korea managed to do that?

So as we demonstrated, there's no question whatsoever that south Korea was ahead of Iran in the automobile industry since the 1950s, and that it widely expanded its edge all along the 1960's and 1970's.

wrong as it pointed above , they started sooner but our pace was a lot faster
and we surpassed them in 1974-1975 and in 1978 we reached a level they didn' t reached for years .

Have a look at other industries (whether electronics, home appliances, nuclear industries, no matter what sector you choose to examine) and you'll be confronted with a similar picture.

the same picture , they started sooner but we surpass them in 70s and our products were way ahead of them . please go and look at that

Iran was quite on par with South Korea in electronics and nuclear industry. Both countries relied on foreign technology and started almost at the same time. Why don't you compare the two in these areas? Look how our paths diverged after 4 decades.

we were ahead in late 70s . salar has a misconception that because they started sooner , they must be ahead while he forget to include the pace that the countries moved in his calculation
south korea was relying on joint venture but we started with joint venture and after some years of assembling we went and bought all the production line

As said, no matter what area one chooses to compare the two countries in, south Korea was ahead of Iran prior to the Islamic Revolution. What I wrote was essentially aimed at debunking the widespread but inaccurate belief that Iran surpassed south Korea during the 1970's. That's simply wrong, and in fact it was in the 1970's that the Koreans expanded their previously held lead.

A key factor behind these diverging trajectories lies in the Iranian economy's dependence on oil. Successful development of a large-scale, diversified and technologically advanced industry is not possible through reliance on the hard currency windfall of crude energy sales. This is something the Islamic Republic has understood, hence its insistence on the development of non-oil exports (which today have surpassed oil exports, although some of it consists of natural gas, however exports of manufactured goods and services are still about on par if not superior to crude oil and gas sales).

The Islamic Republic is the result of a popular revolution. It takes years for a revolutionary government to stabilize and gain actual control. Then followed eight years of Imposed War during which no significant industrial development could be expected (nonetheless some of the necessary groundwork was laid right away). And then illegal US-imposed sanctions, which tend to hamper trade.

Yet Iran today is exporting automobiles, home appliance, steel, cement, petrochemicals, pharmaceutics, a variety of agricultural produce and more. Before the Revolution Iran wasn't exporting anything but oil, carpets, pistachios and caviar. Considering the policies of the shah regime as well as restrictions imposed by its western and zionist patrons, it's improbable that Iran would have achieved such an economic transition had the Revolution not occurred.

what made Iranian industry stagnate was governmental management after the revolution . not only relying on oil.

Who knows what would've happened if the bastard Qajars did not kill Amir Kabir.

let just go back , who knew what would happened if those safavide didn't marginaized people like Molla-sadara in favour of people whose only art was reciting quran

 

[Hack-Hook]

Oil based economy is not a good thing.

Saudi Arabia is a good example of it. They just buy everything with oil money.

People think its a progress but its not, Oil money is not forever.

All thing is producing goods in country. If a country can do it it became a great power.

Iran in 1979 was a oil based country look like Saudi Arabia and when oil have good price, had a good economy. Iran at that time was not better than south korea or turkey. Its just a fantasy

its not strange that all economies that relied on on commodity have an Achilles heel, but the real and more dangerous problem is not with oil based economy , more damaging problem is with government mismanagement of economy

Iran in 1979 was a oil based country look like Saudi Arabia and when oil have good price, had a good economy. Iran at that time was not better than south korea or turkey. Its just a fantasy

and till the USA sanction 10 years ago Iran was still an oil economy . 33 years after revolution .
well thanks to Obama our reliance on oil reduced a lot, only hope if the sanction are lifted some lazy , traitorous high level official don't fall back on old ways

Don't know how you define on par, but I showed that south Korea was clearly ahead of Iran. This also applies to the nuclear field. As an example south Korea's first research reactor came online in 1962, five years prior to Iran's.

you failed to consider the rate of advancement as i shown about car industry

 

[Hack-Hook]

Oil does hold back economic development. It's not my claim, but a consensual finding among economists, with extensive literature dedicated to the topic. The conclusion is that other things being equal, the gap would have become larger had Iran continued to depend on oil to the same extent.

oil alone don't do that many other country its noeway

the real damaging factor is governmental mismanagement .

It depends on the war and its circumstances. War can also cause irreversible damage to technology and industry.

not the war like iran-iraq war .
what happened to germany after WW2 do that

 

[Raghfarm007]

Total BS from the Hack hook again.

I point out the reality that he is talking crap again, showing that Iran´s education system is way better now than before the revolution, as opposed to his retarded claim..... and he claims that I am bringing hate?!!!!
No point discussing things with stupid unexperianced children hooked on western propeganda..... put the child on ignore list...

 

[Hack-Hook]

Total BS from the Hack hook again.

I point out the reality that he is talking crap again, showing that Iran´s education system is way better now than before the revolution, as opposed to his retarded claim..... and he claims that I am bringing hate?!!!!
No point discussing things with stupid unexperianced children hooked on western propeganda..... put the child on ignore list...

the retard is the person who could not understand nowhere in the discussion anybody but you compared Iran of late 70s by Iran of 2020s
how hard its to understand ? how hard i must be to comprehend something so simple ?

 

[thesaint]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564678354988572673

 

[Shawnee]

What did Iran have before 1979 that KSA and UAE do not have now?

-Imported lines of mass production of different stuff with some domestic component.

-Fifth best airforce although imported

-high oil output

-Good foreign relations


-Show of space tech with no essence to it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

What did Iran have before 1979 that KSA and UAE do not have now?

-Imported lines of mass production of different stuff with some domestic component.

-Fifth best airforce although imported

-high oil output

-Good foreign relations


-Show of space tech with no essence to it.

we could produce a car entirely inside Iran.
by the way the question must be what had Iran in late 70s that KSA and UAE didn't had at the time . guess the list would be entirely different . and a question for you . do you expect iran stayed at those level in the last 45 years while KSA and UAE would have moved forward ?

again we are not compare iran of then with iran of now , we are comparing iran of then with different countries of then

 

[SalarHaqq]

The truth is that Iran was experiencing going through a large economic/development expansion in 1970s, particularly after the 1973 oil crisis, that could've changed the country very fast.

Iran mostly reaped the benefits of a sudden extraordinary inflow of cash consecutive to the 1973 oil boom. One cannot even say it was optimally managed, because it didn't take long before economic overheating set in and the Rial became hopelessly over-evaluated (the key factor behind the Dutch Disease). This resulted in an economic crisis, with Iran recording negative GDP growth in 1977-1978 (which some historians consider as one of the immediate triggers of the popular uprising which ushered in the Islamic Revolution). In sum, there were essentially five years of high GDP growth fueled essentially by advantageous oil price fluctuation.

---

we were in front of them including south korea and turkey and even some of European countries

Iran never was ahead of south Korea in modern times. European countries? Please.

in 1979 , 100,000 university students in those times were not something to brush off

53 years of Pahlavi monarchy to have 100.000 university students. 43 years of Islamic Republic to arrive at around 4,5 million.

A near twenty-fold increase when factoring in population growth.

assembling cars , in 1979 all of the peykan was produced inn Iran to the last part , assembling, don't make me laugh
something that china was interested to get from Iran some years later.

it was in 1978 iran produced all parts of peykan in iran , none of south korea auto maker manage to do that till years later

at the time we were ahead of both turkey and south korea as all turkey auto makers belonged to european and south korea relied on joint venture with foreign companies . since 1978 we produced all parts of peykan inside of iran , when was that turkey and south korea managed to do that?

For nearly a decade Peykans were being screwed together from knock-down kits imported from the UK. It's actual name is Hillman Hunter and it's basically a British car. In 1975 South Korea was exporting its domestically developed automobiles.

you knew what that car was , they took engine of usa jeeps that was damaged beyound repair at the time and use oil drum and make those jeeps

And then they started serial production of those. There was no equivalent in Iran.

and since 1969 we were assembling cars , but knew what those 50s are not counted as we are comparing late 70s .

They were assembling cars since 1962, five years earlier than Iran.

wrong as it pointed above , they started sooner but our pace was a lot faster
and we surpassed them in 1974-1975 and in 1978 we reached a level they didn' t reached for years .

the same picture , they started sooner but we surpass them in 70s and our products were way ahead of them . please go and look at that

My previous post listed the major stages in the history of south Korea's automobile industry. It's the same picture in other sectors.

salar has a misconception that because they started sooner , they must be ahead while he forget to include the pace that the countries moved in his calculation

I clearly mentioned the state of south Korean automotive industries in the 1970's.

south korea was relying on joint venture but we started with joint venture and after some years of assembling we went and bought all the production line

South Korea brands began manufacturing their very own cars by the mid-1970's, not simply producing foreign ones under license. They were even exporting those domestic cars and their industry was more diversified than the Iranian one, which could only manage to produce a single type in meaningful numbers.

what made Iranian industry stagnate was governmental management after the revolution . not only relying on oil.

Where did I claim Iranian industries stagnated or that Iran has been over-relying on oil since the Revolution? It's the exact opposite I stated. Iranian industries greatly expanded after 1979 thanks to a superior economic development strategy.

let just go back , who knew what would happened if those safavide didn't marginaized people like Molla-sadara in favour of people whose only art was reciting quran

Maybe major catastrophes would have befallen Iran, like when secularist freemasons encroached on public institutions, and Iranians were subjected to genocide tens years later.

---

oil alone don't do that many other country its noeway

the real damaging factor is governmental mismanagement .

Oil is an obstacle to both economic and human development.

This has been demonstrated by ample academic research. Norway and the Netherlands were studied thoroughly by the authors who modelized the impeding effect of oil on agriculture and industries. Both these countries had their industrialization slowed down by the oil sector.

W. M. Corden, Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics: Survey and Consolidation, Oxford Economic Papers, Vol. 36, No. 3 (Nov., 1984), pp. 359-380.

Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics: Survey and Consolidation on JSTOR

W. M. Corden, Booming Sector and Dutch Disease Economics: Survey and Consolidation, Oxford Economic Papers, New Series, Vol. 36, No. 3 (Nov., 1984), pp. 359-380

www.jstor.org

not the war like iran-iraq war .
what happened to germany after WW2 do that

And during the Sacred Defence Iran laid the groundwork for her rapid post-war development.

But the conflict took a considerable toll on the Iranian economy including the industries nonetheless.

By the time that Iran and Iraq agreed to a cease-fire, Iran's industry was operating at only 20-30 per cent of capacity. Direct economic damage (i.e. physical destruction) inflicted on Iran amounted to a yearly average of 23.35 per cent of the country's gross domestic product (GDP). The UN Security Council estimates that the cost of direct economic damage, excluding military damage and loss of human life, amounted to $97.3 billion. Using a different exchange rate, the Iranian government puts the figure much higher, at over $300 billion. Military damage was estimated at $50 billion. Some observers estimate that the total cost of damage is in the neighbourhood of US$1,000 billion (Athari 1991).

6 Iranian recovery from industrial devastation during war with Iraq

archive.unu.edu

 

[jauk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1564348841847144451

Sadr is a huge cancer to Iraq. Biggest mistake was US not killing this guy back in when he led the Mehdi Army.

Dude turned his back to Iran after getting all that he needed. Typical Arab politician. This is exactly why nearly ever major Arab country is weak against Imperalism today.

There is always a few power brokers that “can’t wait to be king”, as the old Disney saying goes. The back fighting and betrayal highlights Middle Eastern affairs for past 100 years.

The US will never get a nod from Iran for their ‘kills’.

 

[Shawnee]

we could produce a car entirely inside Iran.
by the way the question must be what had Iran in late 70s that KSA and UAE didn't had at the time . guess the list would be entirely different . and a question for you . do you expect iran stayed at those level in the last 45 years while KSA and UAE would have moved forward ?

again we are not compare iran of then with iran of now , we are comparing iran of then with different countries of then

Peikan was an achievement made by Khayami brothers but it was not completely domestic. khayami had the dream of full domestic production by 1360.

Peikan design is actually a facelift of an English car with some changes due to eventual problems.