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Iranian Chill Thread

Russia has already sent in more than 50% of its forces.
It was reported to be 30K to 60K but they have deployed atleast 200K near the battlespace


This will take longer.

The city fighting will take much longer based on Syrian fighting. Russia isn’t going to siege the cities like SAA did in Syria or level buildings like Syria. So Kharkov and Kiev and Mariupol will be challenges.

I think Kiev at this rate could last another 2 weeks. Unless Russia sends reinforcements. Right now Russia is not using even 40% of its forces.

But situation is fluid so I’m going to see how much land they cover in 72 hours. That will give us a week’s worth of data to make a better prediction.
I meant 5 days in the sense that there may be a collapse east of the Dniypr river. Theirs no denying the progress made in the South and the North past Sumy.

I wasn't referring to the major cities like Kiev and Kharkov but my point was that, if their was a collapse east of the river, it may be enough to create a ceasefire. Actually city battles will be intensely bloody and destructive which leads me to believe, they will avoid exactly that.
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IMO, the entire EAST is at risk of being cut off like a scissor from the North and South. Leaving all the bulk of the army trapped on the wrong side of the river.
I don't think option one will happen, unless their is a decisive RUS attack, their would be strong resistance and a very large concentration of forces in the city.

Burning Kiev like Grozny I think is the worst thing they could do, I think it is something they really don't want, but may have to do to take it due to strong resistance. Surrounding the city seems like the best option but if they do not shell it or bomb it, and leave it in tact it could be acceptable and allow for ceasefire.
1. Won't happen, people on twitter and even posters on this forum say WAR IS OVER IN JUST 48 HOURS just because they reached Kiev from Belarus, but now they are having a hard time taking it, and as you said, going into Kiev turns into Grozny but on a larger level and that's just 1 city. Ukraine is roughly almost like Poland and Germany in one. And Putin knows leveling the city will make Ukrainians fight harder especially when you have the social media these days.

I agree with oldman that sadly the Grozny scenario is the most likely. Also, I agree that Putin was wrong to keep 2/3 of only 200K troops (out of 1.4M) at the border. Today, he has sent another 1/6 of his forces into Ukraine. Being too cautious now will cost him too much in the future. Capturing Kiyev has costs, he should've realized it earlier, paid it upfront. Putin only cares about falling Kiyev, toppling the government, saying that we finished what we wanted to do, installing a military government, leave the rest of the job to Ukrainians and Russians wearing Ukrainian uniforms, like those little green men of Crimea. These Ukrainians are also not like religious muslims that you chant Allah-Akbar, they sacrifice their life, they are of liberal bunch! Social media is also way over-rated in the west. People in the west will hate Putin anyways, even if he decides to become mother Theresa the 2nd from tomorrow. People in his country also will change their mind. People's opinions don't matter nearly as much, especially if a system is not built upon the game of democracy, i.e., controlling the public through the mass media/propaganda.
 
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Old info, Russia has sent in more.
Lets say this is true.

According to Rob Lee who is very objective and professional in his work. He seems to believe the forces deployed North of Kiev are Tier 2 or 3 units from the Eastern Military district in the far east. By far the least trained and worst equipped.

I'm not sure why they'd do this, but the main force may be held for whatever reason, or the mainforce is in the South where the most progress has been made.

Either way, it looks like the airborne assault units probably to seize the city quickly did not work. Actually failed quite badly. That's like losing your 101st airborne units.
 
Lets say this is true.

According to Rob Lee who is very objective and professional in his work. He seems to believe the forces deployed North of Kiev are Tier 2 or 3 units from the Eastern Military district in the far east. By far the least trained and worst equipped.

I'm not sure why they'd do this, but the main force may be held for whatever reason, or the mainforce is in the South where the most progress has been made.

Either way, it looks like the airborne assault units probably to seize the city quickly did not work. Actually failed quite badly. That's like losing your 101st airborne units.
I'm not a military expert, but I will say that sending in conscripts and lower tier units and equipment is dumb when you want to end the war quickly. Saving the best troops for last is like some dictator not wanting to damage his precious elite guards or something. Can always find replacements after the war. Holy cow!
 
If 100.000 BM's were the minimum requirement to ensure Iran's safety, then yes. But since that's not the case, no, Iran probably produced less than this number.

And that's precisely the crux of the matter: with ballistic missiles, you can achieve a similar overall outcome at a more affordable price.


The point is that for all practical purposes, 20.000 ballistic missiles should be sufficient. Yes, the Su-30's in your example could theoretically deliver a greater amount of explosives, but in practice they never would. Will your Su-30's ever fly 4000 sorties and launch 8 x 4000 = 32.000 AGM's per aircraft? But in order to purchase and operate these jets, you'll still need to disburse several times the sum required to field 20.000 BM's. Why discuss overkill scenarii? We should stay focused on realistic projections.

As for the estimates published by the Pentagon about the size of Iran's BM arsenal, I wouldn't take them all too seriously. They've systematically had a policy of minimizing Iranian power, no matter in which area (even when it came to the number of operational F-14's, we remember well how they made fools out of themselves when the IRIAF flew a large formation of Tomcats over Tehran some decades ago, directly proving wrong a previous estimate coming out of America). So if they talk of 5000 missiles, we can be as good as certain that the actual number is several times that.

An arsenal in the tens of thousands range is well within Iran's capabilities. Iran has been mass producing and stockpiling these for some 20 years now. I remember Shamkhani stating in the early 2000's that they're producing ballistic missiles like noghlo nabat. Ten thousand missiles in two decades, that's 500 a year or just below 42 a month... Frankly, it seems obvious to me that this would not even represent such an extraordinary feat for Iran. Personally I believe Iran does have some 20.000 ballistic missiles at least.

Also we need to ponder what quantities of missiles the enormous funds allocated to this sector over time may have bought Iran. Looked at from the (probable) expenditure angle, it only compounds the above conclusion.

In keeping with previously elaborated calculations, here's more to the point about the superior cost-effectiveness of ballistic missiles over an upgraded, large air force: air-launched PGM's cost money too. We could say that the purely theoretical (but never to materialize) maximum number of PGM's a Su-30 may drop in its entire lifetime (32.000 units), will cost as much as a couple thousand ballistic missiles (especially if these PGM's are billed in hard currency instead of being domestically manufactured).

Now, in order to deprive Iran of this potential ability to conduct 32.000 strikes, all an enemy would need to do is to down a single Iranian Su-30... In comparison, destroying the thousands of ballistic missiles Iran could buy for the price of these 32.000 PGM's (not counting the cost of the Su-30 supposed to deliver them), is practically impossible. This holds especially true against regional adversaries given that only nuclear weapons, if at all, can threaten Iran's ultra-hardened missile cities housed beneath mountains.

Contributing to the advantage ballistic missiles enjoy in terms of viability, is the comfortable standoff range they offer: strategic targets in neighboring countries would be within range of every hardened Iranian missile base as well as thousands of hard to detect TEL's traveling back and forth through mountain ranges; whereas a fighter jet would have to get closer or even cross into enemy airspace before firing its shorter ranged PGM's, which would make it an easier target given its relative proximity to enemy radars, sensors, airborne interceptors and SAM's.

It is important to underscore the higher vulnerability of fighter jets compared to ballistic missiles, no matter the adversary.

Last but not least, the warhead of the previously cited KAB-500L laser-guided bomb weighs some 450 kg, or 200 kg less than those of ballistic missiles in the class of the Fateh-110 and over 500 kg less than average Iranian MRBM's. Plus, the destructive power of a ballistic missile upon impact is enhanced by its greater kinetic energy.

- - - - - -

people who are against nuclear Iran , are generally against "Iran" as whole

People who strive to topple the Islamic Republic are objectively working towards the destruction of Iran as a whole, whether by design or as a result of political short-sightedness. After the IR, Iran will cease to exist as a unified nation-state and will be balkanized into at least five entities, more probably into six to seven. The Islamic Republic on the other hand has safeguarded Iran for more than four decades against the existential, rabid enmity of the world's most powerful entities.
 
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I'm not a military expert, but I will say that sending in conscripts and lower tier units and equipment is dumb when you want to end the war quickly. Saving the best troops for last is like some dictator not wanting to damage his precious elite guards or something. Can always find replacements after the war. Holy cow!
It's bizarre on every level.

For your reference:

Russia was supposed to posses a large number of T-90's.
Absolutely no where to be seen from all the images I've seen. This is sort of Iran-level units in terms of equipment.

Could be sending the lower tier units to degrade the UKR army, before the better equipped guys get involved, but I never see any Western military operate like this as they actually value the lives of their soldiers. Russians seem to be in a Soviet mindset still, and if those IL-76's that were shot down is true, it's just baffling.
 

The moment of the explosion at the oil depot in Vasylkiv​

Russian troops targeted gas pipeline in Danilovka district of Kharkiv​


There is alot of speculation and an excessive amount of guesstimating going on right now when it comes to this Ukraine conflict. Yesterday Ukrainians were claiming having killed 3500+ Russian troops. Now on western mainstream media the Ukrainian government is claiming "hundreds of Russian troops" have been killed.

Two IL-76 were supposedly shot down but their remains seem to have vanished into thin air. The full truth won't be known to the world until the fog of war clears and we can gain a clear understanding of what actually transpired.

All I know is that the Ukrainians are completely surrounded and outgunned. They're going to run out of fuel and food very quickly. Ammunition supplies will also dwindle sooner or later. The current government in Ukraine do not have their peoples best interests at heart.

Rather than keeping Ukraine neutral like Switzerland and trading with both the EU on one side and Russia/China on the other, they've decided to pick sides and pick fights. They've decided to antagonize a juggernaut and shell their own people for 7 years. The west likes to portray them out of be liberals or progressives but they're not progressive, they're pro-NATO, anti-Russian radicals and now they're about to pay the ultimate price.

I just feel sorry for the Ukrainian people, because these radicals are dragging their entire nation down with them. Hopefully soon this government will be decapitated, forced into exile in London while a more pragmatic government with a more neutral world view can take the helm in Kiev and turn Ukraine in the right direction.

Lets say this is true.

According to Rob Lee who is very objective and professional in his work. He seems to believe the forces deployed North of Kiev are Tier 2 or 3 units from the Eastern Military district in the far east. By far the least trained and worst equipped.

I'm not sure why they'd do this, but the main force may be held for whatever reason, or the mainforce is in the South where the most progress has been made.

Either way, it looks like the airborne assault units probably to seize the city quickly did not work. Actually failed quite badly. That's like losing your 101st airborne units.

IL-76 in this day and age without a shred of proof ? This is not 1920. This is 2020. Anyone can take a picture with their cell phone. The chances of two such planes being shot down without any remains, pictures or evidence... it's impossible. I can't believe this is even being debated.

Also in regards to Russian losses, yesterday the Ukrainian government were saying 3500 Russian troops. Now they're claiming hundreds. I'm sorry but I don't view the current government in Kiev to be a reliable source of info.

The west also seems to be repeating their claims like parrots. The same way they were repeating the claims of Al Nusra in Syria while calling them "moderate" rebels.

It's bizarre on every level.

For your reference:

Russia was supposed to posses a large number of T-90's.
Absolutely no where to be seen from all the images I've seen. This is sort of Iran-level units in terms of equipment.

Could be sending the lower tier units to degrade the UKR army, before the better equipped guys get involved, but I never see any Western military operate like this as they actually value the lives of their soldiers. Russians seem to be in a Soviet mindset still, and if those IL-76's that were shot down is true, it's just baffling.
 
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Have to say, staying off PDF nd spending time on twitter these couple days to keep an eye on the war has been the worst thing I ever done.

The level of lies and the dangerous levels of use of copium on twitter by NATO European cheerleaders has disgusted me like nothing I've ever seen before. I don't think any war in human history there has been so much lies and misinformation spread by one party about the real situation on the ground. No pictures, no evidence, only superficial claims.

They think it's normal for an army to achieve total victory within 24 hrs. After the progress Russia made after day 1 they Went on thumping their chest how Russia was defeated, they have no will or morale or whatever shit that they were saying.

OMG, goddamned Nazis, you are getting enveloped on all sides and Russians only used what? Around 65k TROOPS?

These uneducated NATO cheerleaders were nowhere to be found, they were busy taking drugs when the Nazis attacked innocent Russian speaking civilians, when they were relentlessly bombing donbass. Oh wait, the people of east Ukraine are not WESTERN ENUF, just like the Syrians.

These morons needs to be taught a lesson... I have no pity for Ukrainians. In fact I hope Ukraine ceases to exist and Russia just annexes the whole of Ukraine..
 


"Ambiguous" Warfare Buys Upgrade Time for Russia's Military​


Unmarked Russian soldiers who seized Ukraine’s Crimea region earlier this year gave every appearance of military professionals well equipped with modern body armor and weapons. Russian troops, tanks and fighter jets have massed on the Ukrainian border as if ready to storm in at a moment's notice. But despite the flexing of military muscle, Russia most likely prefers to follow the path laid out by Chinese warrior–philosopher Sun Tzu: "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."

Military experts have another way to describe Russia's current playbook: "asymmetric," or "ambiguous," warfare. Such a strategy falls just short of open military conflict and works in Russia's favor at a time when it's still trying to shed antiquated Soviet-era military baggage and create a more professional military for 21st-century warfare—especially when U.S. and NATO forces generally possess more advanced battlefield technologies. For now Russia’s greatest strength may rest with its shadowy armies of cyber warriors and backup arsenal of nuclear weapons as well as its masterful use of politically destabilizing tactics.

Such schemes compensate for the country’s lagging technology, says Dakota Wood, senior research fellow for defense programs at The Heritage Foundation in Washington, D.C. “This is where Russia is investing as a means to degrade the capabilities of others, send political messages—for example, its cyber attacks against Estonia and Georgia—and to buttress both its negotiating posture and national prestige with nuclear capabilities.”

Showing its age
The need to modernize the Russian military became clear during the nation's short, sharp war with neighboring Georgia in 2008. “While Russia’s victory in the Russo-Georgian War was convincing, it still highlighted deficiencies in how the Russian army was armed and equipped,” says Keir Giles, a director of the Conflict Studies Research Center at Chatham House in London. Russia relied more on the shock of overwhelming force rather than the sophisticated use of military intelligence and combined arms, according to a U.S. Army War College Strategic Studies Institute report. For instance, Russia lost a Tu-22 bomber during a reconnaissance mission because its forces lacked drones and satellite imagery to conduct surveillance safely. The incomplete state of Russia’s own global navigation satellite system at the time meant its air force could not effectively use guided bombs or missiles to support ground forces.

On the ground Russian soldiers often fought better-equipped Georgian troops who wore modern body armor—protection they themselves lacked at the time. Russian tanks suffered losses in frontal assaults against more modern Georgian military vehicles equipped with night vision, reactive armor and better communication. The brief conflict also strained Russian supply lines. One Russian tank commander described the loss of two of his tanks this way: “We simply ran out of ammunition and they surrounded us with grenade launchers.” But the sheer size of the Russian military and its strategic positioning of its forces for such a conflict enabled it to win.

The Russian military has already improved since the war six years ago. Russia's fairly bloodless takeover of Crimea this past spring gave the world a look at the modern body armor and other gear worn by the occupying troops. A July 2014 U.K. Parliament report (pdf) has concluded that Russia plans to spend $720 billion over the next decade to create a modern military that could better challenge NATO and the long-term threat of China’s fast-growing military power. The Russian military budget has risen to third-highest in the world, at almost $69 billion in 2013, according to the consulting firm IHS. That amount is still about half of China’s military spending the same year and barely 10 percent of the 2013 U.S. military budget.

Sowing doubt
But Russia does not need a fully modern military to achieve a political victory in the ongoing conflict between the Western-backed Ukrainian government and Russian-backed separatist forces. Russia has already mastered the use of an “information war” strategy to influence local populations, confuse the outside world's perception of ground events and shut down opposing sources of online information.

Manipulating and controlling information in ambiguous warfare enables Russia to deny involvement in eastern Ukraine even as it supplies separatist fighters with armored vehicles and air defense missiles, including the Buk missile system that likely was used to shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. The disinformation strategy also worked for Russia when it denied sending troops into Crimea, despite the sudden appearance of well-armed fighters wearing standard uniforms but lacking national uniform insignia or flags on their vehicles.
 
Have to say, staying off PDF nd spending time on twitter these couple days to keep an eye on the war has been the worst thing I ever done.

The level of lies and the dangerous levels of use of copium on twitter by NATO European cheerleaders has disgusted me like nothing I've ever seen before. I don't think any war in human history there has been so much lies and misinformation spread by one party about the real situation on the ground. No pictures, no evidence, only superficial claims.

They think it's normal for an army to achieve total victory within 24 hrs. After the progress Russia made after day 1 they Went on thumping their chest how Russia was defeated, they have no will or morale or whatever shit that they were saying.

OMG, goddamned Nazis, you are getting enveloped on all sides and Russians only used what? Around 65k TROOPS?

These uneducated NATO cheerleaders were nowhere to be found, they were busy taking drugs when the Nazis attacked innocent Russian speaking civilians, when they were relentlessly bombing donbass. Oh wait, the people of east Ukraine are not WESTERN ENUF, just like the Syrians.

These morons needs to be taught a lesson... I have no pity for Ukrainians. In fact I hope Ukraine ceases to exist and Russia just annexes the whole of Ukraine..
You noticed that too? ten of thousands of likes about the "Ghost of Kiev" lol and a whole ton of propoganda.

Twitter has gotten awful. People claiming videos of Russia vehicles on fire which are Ukrainian or vise versa.
 

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