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Iranian Chill Thread

Do you seriously think that Emirates and Turkey are losing their identities? Your example of Europe (mainly Western Europe) does not apply to us at all because we're not Europeans. Even more so for Thailand. We're closer to Europeans culturally than we are to Thai people. Has Egypt lost its national identity? What about India?

I don't see where people come up with notions like this. As a matter of fact, I have never seen people in any country suck up to tourists as much as Iranians do. So, your theory has apparently backfired.

مردم انقدر توریست ندیده شدن یه توریست که می‌بینند که مونده دولا بشن جلوش. مردم دارن از کشور به خاطر اینکه چهارتا آدم جدید ببینند فرار می‌کنند. این همه ورزشکار تو این سال‌ها که رفتن از ایران تمام پل‌های پشت سرشون رو هم خراب کردن. اینجوری دارین هویت ملی رو پاسداری می‌کنید؟​
Have you ever taken a look at the number of native vs foreigner ratio in UAE? Do you know that foreigners make up 85% of the ENTIRE UAE population? That is right.. only 15% of Emiratis are native to that land. Jewish-European oriented Emirati leaders have managed to turn themselves into a freaking minority in the span of just 2 decades. I am not even talking about the mass tourism UAE is witnessing... they have turned UAE into a Arab-Muslim Pattaya anyway. Israeli tourists now don't have to travel much further... they will arrive sooner for their wicked desires. (There was even an entire article about this). Examples are very valid my brother.. there is no difference between a European or an Iranian or an Arab... humans are basically the same.. same desires. The point here is how you govern them according to your heritage,traditions etc

Egypt is a male dominated society.. even though they are a secular and ''free'' nation on paper traditions never died in Egypt. I salute Egyptians for being themselves and not succumbing to the corrupt Western ideology even though they follow a somewhat pro-US foreign policy. India is exactly the same story as Egypt.. they are a male dominated society with a proud patriotic population.. just take a look at the Indian population whenever they have some small scale conflict with Pakistan.. literally almost the entire population gathers around the flag.


What you have said about our own nation is true and this is a moment for us to pause and think what has gone wrong that we became like what you just described. It is shocking yes but the reason Iran is the way it is today is because the role and power of the women and feminization of the Iranian society. In contrary to massive Western propaganda Iranian women wield too much power in the society and this is the root cause of the problem. Just imagine a feminist country like Sweden.. imagine it being sanctioned and demonized for more than 40 years and you will get an Iran. I am sorry to say but Iran is just simply not meant for European style governance or suited for mass tourism or globalism. The reason for the unfortunate situation you described is the victory of the Western propaganda against the Iranian nation. I admit that we got defeated on the PR front and the result of that is clearly visible in the society. We just need correct leaders to fix this issue. It can be solved but needs unity and patriotism.

What you advocated will just make the situation worse. It will defeat Iran much quicker than what i described in general.
 
Do you seriously think that Emirates and Turkey are losing their identities?

What identity is there in the Emirates? Do you see any authenticity or 'esalat' in a place like Dubai? Because I don't. All I see is a feeble and embarrassing attempt to ape western-centric, globalist norms. What's "traditional" about those glitzy skyscrapers, cosmopolitan expat colonies and whorehouses (where prostitutes hail from all continents)?

In the meantime, Tradition is taking a hit in the Emirates and being subtly replaced by "Noahide"-globalist oecumenism, as that church-cum-synagogue-cum-mosque housed under one roof proves.

Your example of Europe (mainly Western Europe) does not apply to us at all because we're not Europeans. Even more so for Thailand. We're closer to Europeans culturally than we are to Thai people. Has Egypt lost its national identity? What about India?

Yes, their traditions are eroding at a fast pace, especially in urban settings most affected by globalism.

And the substitute-nationalism offered by frauds such as the RSS / BJP by no means offers a shield against this erosion. It is in fact a hoax, a fake post-modern form of nationalism intended to anaesthesize the Hindu majority and give globalist oligarchs a free hand to subvert the essence of Tradition as well as its social backbone (such as the nuclear family structure etc).

No wonder the RSS hardly resisted British occupation (as opposed to the Congress party), and was in fact instrumentalized by the colonial power against authentic independentists.

As for Thailand, actually the kingdom of Siam was home to a proud civilizaton of its own. Today many Thais deeply resent what the onslaught of mass tourism did to their country.

I don't see where people come up with notions like this. As a matter of fact, I have never seen people in any country suck up to tourists as much as Iranians do. So, your theory has apparently backfired.

مردم انقدر توریست ندیده شدن یه توریست که می‌بینند کم مونده دولا بشن جلوش. کجای دنیا دیدی توریست رو از تو خیابون ببرن خونه خودشون یارو مفت سرشون خراب شه بهش هزارجور سرویس هم بدن؟

Precisely because of BBC / Manoto and other western, zionist and Haifan Bahai-controlled propaganda outlets which promote 'gharb-parasti' as well as globalism among the Iranian population.

Take those propaganda and psy-ops vehicles away and no Iranian will live under the delusion that western tourists are something special, or that globalist notions of a "world village" are anywhere close to being desirable.
 
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In my opinion, Church and state should be separate from one another. Some in Qom feel the same way.

Although method of governance is a bit irrelevant. The current two super powers have wide differences in government. So clearly success as a country isn’t dependent on a specific form of political governance although a pseudo-capitalistic economic governance is likely needed. So The problem isn’t governance that needs to be addressed,
the problem is lack of governance addressing major problems in Iran’s economy, laws, etc. social freedoms falls much lower on the list but that shouldn’t be neglected. Mandatory hijab is not a cultural identity it’s a religious identity. The state shouldn’t dictate how someone practices their religion. It should merely provide protection to all religions from discrimination and hate. And you cannot force people into heaven by whips and chains.

And here lies the major problem with Iran “patriots” living in the West telling Iranians back home what they should accept. The average working person does not care about 5th columns, or the great game, or foreign powers fighting over it, or 25 years in the future.... when they are starving, lacking access to jobs, and watching their purchase power be less than 40 years ago. The average human cares about survival and personal prosperity. Hard to care about the fate of the government when your on a hungry stomach or are stuck in poverty.

So until Iran addresses those problems it will continue to have social economic issues it doesn’t matter if the government in charge is current one, Shah one, communist one, etc. it’s the core issues that need to be solved not the system of governance.
 
The average working person does not care about 5th columns, or the great game, or foreign powers fighting over it, or 25 years in the future.... when they are starving, lacking access to jobs, and watching their purchase power be less than 40 years ago. The average human cares about survival and personal prosperity. Hard to care about the fate of the government when your on a hungry stomach or are stuck in poverty.

I think you underestimate the ideological nature of the average Iranian. Independence, autonomy and nationalism/religious conservatism has been stronger drivers for Iranians throughout history than economic prosperity.
 
I think you underestimate the ideological nature of the average Iranian. Independence, autonomy and nationalism/religious conservatism has been stronger drivers for Iranians throughout history than economic prosperity.

Last I checked independence, autonomy, and nationalism doesn’t feed one’s stomach or put food on the table.

While Iranians are certaintly patriotic and nationalistic more so than the historically tribal Arabs everything has a limit. Severe economic pressure on any domestic population will eventually create resentment and disorder if not remedied.

Social media allows everyone to see how the other Half lives in every society and around the world unlike let’s say 30 or 50 or 75 years ago when newspaper was the form of media and many couldn’t read. So unfortunately it doesn’t aid countries in their fight against global powers.

Again such issues are well within the capability of the current government to tackle. The will has to be their to reform certain areas of the economy and expand in others.
 
Their logic makes no sense.

“Zarif is a traitor he has bank accounts in US and studied in US. He is best friends with John Kerry!!”

“We need this other guy who is a US citizen with extensive ties in US to be the next FM...so much better than Zarif”

Lol....zero logic. It’s like the Iranian version of Fox News on this board sometimes.

the difference is that one of those U.S citizens left the easy life in the U.S to go join the Basij and fight during the Iran Iraq war and has survived chemical weapons attacks when most Iranian Americans were changing their names from Mohammad to "Mike" and pretending they were "Italian" or "Purshian" at best!
 
Last I checked independence, autonomy, and nationalism doesn’t feed one’s stomach or put food on the table.

While Iranians are certaintly patriotic and nationalistic more so than the historically tribal Arabs everything has a limit. Severe economic pressure on any domestic population will eventually create resentment and disorder if not remedied.

Social media allows everyone to see how the other Half lives in every society and around the world unlike let’s say 30 or 50 or 75 years ago when newspaper was the form of media and many couldn’t read. So unfortunately it doesn’t aid countries in their fight against global powers

I'm not saying that economic prosperity shouldn't be prioritized by the state. On the contrary. But when unjustly confronted by economic strangulation as a result of a natural desire by the average Iranian for independence and autonomy- drivers that essentially fuelled the Iranian Revolution - a huge part of Iranian society is willing to resist such sanctions if considered to be part of a foreign scheme to bring Iran into submission.

I'm not saying that Iranians ''certainly'' are patriotic and nationalistic, because that would be the understatement of the century. There have hardly been more nationalistic (with a strong religious identity) people throughout history than the Iranian. Pretty much every great upheaval in Iranian history has been characterized by a perceived loss of national identity:

The Sassanids rose up against the Parthians because they resented the influence of Greek culture in Iran at the time. The Abbasid revolution was pretty much instigated by Iranians because of a suppression of their national identity by the Ummayad Arabs. The Iranian/Islamic revolution of '79 followed decades of strong societal resentment against Western influence on Iranian politics and culture.

There is a reason why nearly every foreign dynasty/empire that set foot in Iran quickly adopted Iranian culture and national identity - from Alexander to the Moghol Ilkhanids to the Turkic dynasties - and not only because Iranian culture has been the high culture of the Middle East/Central Asia. They must have sensed its ideological and emotional weight among the Iranian population.

Now, you're right by saying that there should be a delicate balance between economic prosperity and other ideological factors and this is a problem that future governments in Iran should certainly address. But to say that the average Iranian isn't being driven by other factors than material (economic) ones is ridiculous. If this would have been the case, Iran would have given up on many of its security-orientated policies (regional, military and nuclear) long time ago.
 
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What on earth is ''a natural american'' ?
It mean he can become USA president. He born in usa not just like other foreigner who get its citizenship as their second nationality . USA is his first nationality.
Except that the guy we are talking about is not a double faced traitor. His father, Alireza Marandi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alireza_Marandi is the personal physician of Ali Khamenei.. the supreme leader of Iran. Marandi is a good candidate and a religious nationalist person. Like Tom Cotton said, when Iran was invaded by Iraq.. Zarif was hiding in the US.
Marandi is anything but a good organizer and leader and he become a minister was because of something else.
By the way
گرم پدر تو بود فاضل. از فضل پدر تو را چه حاصل.
Why we must turn minostry into a hereditiary position.
 
Fereydoon Abbasi has publicly declared that he will run for the President. He's also a good candidate in my opinion. He's a nuclear scientist, he has been targeted by Mossad and the CIA before (so he has no love for them), he has had important positions in the system before, and he sounds patriotic. I don't think the conservatives would go for someone like Saeed Mohammad. I think they want Ebrahim Raeesi to become the next president, or maybe Saeed Jalili.

I think most neo-conservatives (like the followers of Omid Dana) would vote for Saeed Mohammad, but judging from the signals, it seems that he doesn't have much support in the conservative camp, or the rest of the populaltion. If so, I think Fereydoon Abbasi is the second best. I won't vote for anyone as always though.
Making raesi become president is wasting his potential . right now he is in a post he meant to be . i believe he must stay in that post and he must be kept for future
About abbasi well we dont need a scientist for the presidency. We need a manager we need an organizer ,we need somebody who caninspure others under him to their job the best way possible . somebody with charisma . tell me which one of the candidate have those qualities and ill tell you who is the one we need for the post.
Fereydoon Abbasi is also a very good candidate.. he has survived assassination attempt by Israel himself so it will be a personal battle for him if it comes to foreign policy. Saeed Mohammad is good too but he is a bit unknown. Jalili is also a decent candidate. Raisi should stick with the judiciary issues though.. that is the field where he is the most strongest.
wpost.we dont need somebody who is blinded by grudges . we need shrewed calculating person for the post . otherwise itll be another Ahmadinejad. A guy who cant end the day without bring amunition to enemy artillery.
 
I agree, he definitely has a high chance of becoming the next Supreme Leader, but I see a lot of people in the conservative party asking him to run again. Conservative media are talking about him all the time, even though he has shown no interest in running for the office. If he's smart, he should stay as the Head of the Judiciary, a title more fit for him in my opinion.
میدونی به نظر من توی گروه محافظه کارها یک. تعداد افراد بی بصیرت هستند . اینها همونهایی هستند که با ششتا کاندیدا اومدن توی انتخابات و نگذاشتن به یک اجماع دسترسی پیدا بشه. همون افراد اصرار کردن برای اینکه رییسی خودش را با نسل جوان نشان بده همون ماجرای عکسها با تتلو ایجاد بشه .همون افراد هم الان اصرار دارند رییسی بیاد برای ریاست جمهوری.اینها کسایی هستنددکه حاضر نیستند برای سود بزرگ فردا برنامه ریزی بکنند . یک منفعت کوچک امروز به نظر اونها کافی هستش.
 
It's hard to believe but Houthis are now only 4 KM away from Marib. The Saudis are going to be in a terrible position in the upcoming negotiations.




This article nails it:

Saudi Arabia Is Talking to Iran. It’s a Potent Sign of Riyadh’s Desperation

There’s no need to be surprised by reports that envoys from Saudi Arabia and Iran have been negotiating in secret in Baghdad. Nor by the fact that the negotiations have been vigorously denied. Nor that the Saudi crown prince now has uncommonly constructive things to say (and on the record) about his country's possible future relationship with Iran.

In the Biden era, negotiation is normative and essential again. The new U.S. administration is building up to the resumption, or recreation, of Barack Obama's nuclear deal with Iran. The 'maximum pressure' policy of the Trump years has been banished from sight.

Iran's regional enemies believe a deal is inevitable, and that it will do their cause great harm. Hence the need to get ahead of the game.

Negotiation is, at least on the Saudis' part, proceeding from a position of weakness. Where once the country felt strong – with the advent of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and his proposed reforms eliciting guarded optimism from the kingdom's Western allies – now it feels decidedly diminished.

MBS was a friend of Donald Trump and was allowed, in a manner of speaking, to get away with murder. But when the Democrats won the presidential mandate, all this fell away. For them, the previous administration’s friendliness with Riyadh is cause for suspicion of the kingdom. Saudi participation in the war in Yemen is not excusable. The murder of Jamal Khashoggi is an indelible black mark.

Biden and his people have no time for Saudi hobbyhorses like its years-long blockade of Qatar – now ended, possibly with an eye to the White House. Nor for the kingdom's implacable opposition to Iran.

Saudi anxieties go deeper than poor public relations. The Saudis feel they are running out of road. Whereas once the kingdom could assemble a somewhat ramshackle coalition to counter Iranian expansionism – and on occasion to fight its militias and proxies where they threatened to do damage – now, it stands largely alone.

In Syria, Iranian proxies and Russia assist an Assad regime whose survival is now assured. Regular Israeli air strikes have not stopped those proxies embedding themselves within regime territory. The Saudis appreciate Israel's attempts to sabotage Iranian nuclear ambitions, but do not believe these efforts can entirely halt Iran's converging paths to a nuclear weapon, nor rein in its takeover of neighboring countries.

Despite the Trump administration's inelegant attempts to have Israel and the Arab states play nice in order to join forces to counterbalance Iran, co-operation to that end is still limited.

Benjamin Netanyahu has not proven the tough-guy container of Iran he portrays himself to be. His strikes in Syria have not seriously affected Assad’s survival or Iran’s takeover of the country. But if Netanyahu is replaced as prime minister, the Saudis believe, even his bellicose rhetorical opposition to Iran may be lost.

In Yemen, the Saudis believe the Houthis to be Iranian cut-outs, directed by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards, and the threats they pose to Saudi territory and its economy to be a powerful weapon in Iranian hands.

The Houthis are on the advance. They hold much of Yemen and are in the process of mounting a bloody, and effective, offensive on Marib. The bombing campaign with which the Saudis tried to stop them has become an internationally reviled tactic of dubious effectiveness. Yemen's internationally-recognized government is in disarray. No one is in a position to stop the Houthis' onward march.

Houthi leaders have also claimed a number of attacks by ballistic missiles and drones on Saudi Arabia proper. International investigations believe the missiles and the drones to be Iranian, rather than Houthi, projects. Iranian state media has published video of the state testing ‘suicide drones' of the same kind in recent days.

Whoever is mounting them, these attacks have struck the Saudi capital, Riyadh, many times, and have done great damage to the confidence and security of the Saudi oil economy. A combination drone and missile attack on two sites in 2019 temporarily halted up to half of the country's oil processing. A drumbeat of further attacks has continued ever since.

Yemen's war has bogged the Saudis down and now seems to provide the rhetorical cover for these continual bombings. The kingdom's leaders are willing to make considerable concessions to secure their own territory and to exit Yemen. Last month, the Saudi foreign minister announced a unilateral ceasefire in Yemen, hoping for the same result. Of course, this gambit failed.

With maximum pressure a thing of the past, negotiation through gritted teeth appears the only way out.

Saudi policymakers may cautiously hope that negotiation may not mean wholesale capitulation. Iran has constructed a form of status quo with Turkey – its foe in Syria and Iraq – that could model what Saudi Arabia may be seeking. Turkey and Iran are not friends, per se. The foreign conflicts in which they back opposite sides continue unabated. But escalation between the powers has largely been avoided.

By contrast, the situation for the kingdom is predominately grim. It faces defeat in Yemen and constant cross-border attacks at home. The anti-Iran coalition it hoped to build is, if not about to collapse, undoubtedly on the back foot. All the while, Iran entrenches itself in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen and wholeheartedly pursues its nuclear ambitions.

A favorable American president has been defeated and replaced by another who is not amenable to Saudi overtures. And the United States will soon, in Saudi eyes, conclude a hated deal with Iran at any price.

It's as good a time as any to try to negotiate an escape.


 
I'm not saying that economic prosperity shouldn't be prioritized by the state. On the contrary. But when unjustly confronted by economic strangulation as a result of a natural desire by the average Iranian for independence and autonomy- drivers that essentially fuelled the Iranian Revolution - a huge part of Iranian society is willing to resist such sanctions if considered to be part of a foreign scheme to bring Iran into submission.

Here is where you are wrong. The woes of Iran’s economy are not the by product of sanctions. Sanctions have exacerbated the problems of a convoluted and mismanaged economy.

After all shortly after revolution Iran’s currency was trading around 75 rials to the dollar compared to 900 rials by late 90’s and 1,200 in 2010 around when nuclear related sanctions were introduced. Yet even after nuclear related sanctions were lifted in 2015 via JCPOA, Iranian currency continued to depreciate.

I don’t know what you know about the Tehran real estate market but in early 2000’s you could buy a 80-90 sq meter apartment in a high rise in ajodaniyeh a posh wealthy northern Tehran neighborhood today for only $15K back then. By 2010 that same apartment was worth over 500K usd as Tehran population rapidly grew and Iran was living off the high oil prices and income generated. Today it might be worth 150K due to currency depreciate to a factor of 1 dollar for 26,000 rials.

So no Iran’s economic woes weren’t caused by sanctions they merely magnified the systemic issues plaguing the economy and added on to it. Sanctions don’t explain why Iran’s GDP is less than 400B in nation of over 80M with resources and industries and diversified sectors

simple thought experiment: If JCPOA is enacted tommorrow, is Iranian currency going to return to pre-Obama sanctions?

Answer: Of course not.

While the currency will strengthen as Iran has access to foreign reserves and Swift funds, it will not return to 1 dollar = 1000 rial due to the systemic issues still plaguing Iranian economy. It is one of the worst countries for ease of business metrics and contract law is weak when you can pay off judges. This is only one problem. Too much time consuming to explain it all.
 
the difference is that one of those U.S citizens left the easy life in the U.S to go join the Basij and fight during the Iran Iraq war and has survived chemical weapons attacks when most Iranian Americans were changing their names from Mohammad to "Mike" and pretending they were "Italian" or "Purshian" at best!

Irrelevant to the point. Salehi the head of Iran’s nuclear program was in the US in the 70’s getting his PHD in nuclear field. There are many ways to assist the homeland besides rushing to pick up a gun. That is why mandatory military service is different the higher the education you have attained.
 
What to do with the priestly/clerical class though? While there is a tendency among neo-nationalists (both in Iran and outside) to dismiss the ruling priesthood of Iran's theocracy as an alien and foreign phenomenon that should bare no function in modern Iran, there is centuries of Iranian history going back to Achaemenid times in which a priestly class has always held sizeable influence over all kinds of worldly and metaphysical matters.

Herodotus for instance notes that Xerxes never made an important decision before consulting the Magi, who represented the professional Zoroastrian priesthood. They also accompanied Persian soldiers on military campaigns (note the similarities with Shia clerics performing religious duties for IRGC on military expeditions), and were represented at the King's court. In Sassanid times, the class of priests also held large sway over the empire. Heck, we even got a militant priest (Kartir) who mingled in political affairs and rose up to forcefully eradicate non-Iranian influences from Zoroastrianism.

The Iranian civilization (nothing has structurally changed besides going from Zoroastrian to Islam) has for the most part in its existence been characterized by its tripartite ideology - the division of functions between the class of priests, warriors and commoners. And while the warrior as a figure has a prominent and influential role in Iranian history and mythology, they have never led the social pyramid (unless elevated to kingship, like how Reza Shah as a military man established his own dynasty).

There is no precedent of a military dictatorship - or in other words, for the warrior class to become the apex of the social order - in Iran's entire 3000 year old history (and probably for good reasons). I am afraid that such upsetting of the fundamental and social order of Iranian society/civilization would result in extreme instability.
این که خیلی استدلال درستی نیست. همه جای دنیا که ادیان ابراهیمی رواج داشتن مذهب نقش بسیار مهمی در سیاست داشته
یه نگاه به اروپای ۲۰۰ سال پیش اگه بندازین همه چی مشخص هست. بیشتر نخبگان جامعه از سیاسیون گرفته تا دانشمندان همه تحصیلات مذهبی داشتن. داروین، مندل، اویلر، گاوس، ریمان و هزاران دانشمند دیگه. جامعه دچار دگرگونی می‌شه. انسان امروز با انسان ۲۰۰ سال پیش یکی نیست. هست؟

این تقسیم‌بندی‌هایی که می‌گین در بیشتر جوامع غربی بوده. در مورد جوامع آسیایی مثل هند و چین نمی‌دونم، اما در بیشتر کشورهای اروپایی رهبران مذهبی به ویژه در کشورهای کاتولیک و ارتودکس نقش مهمی تا همین ۱۰۰ سال پیش داشتن. اما الان دیگه ندارن. دنیا تغییر می‌کنه. ۵۰ سال دیگه دنیا هیچ شباهتی به دنیای امروز نداره

تو همین ایران امروز ما یکی از لائیک‌ترین جوامع تو خاورمیانه هستیم. عراق و ایران بیشترین نرخ بی‌خدایی رو دارن، حتی بسیار بسیار بیشتر از ترکیه که ۳ - ۴ برابر ما توریست میاد کشورشون یا امارات متحده عربی​
 
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