Iranian Chill Thread

[-SINAN-]

What do you think?

I don't know for sure....but i wanna know for sure....i feel like, i'm being fooled.

What Davutoğlu said;
"Şu anda olayın failleri, konusu tümüyle aydınlatılmış durumdadır. Bu saldırıyı Türkiye içindeki bölücü terör örgütü üyeleri ve YPG mensubu bir kişinin birlikte gerçekleştirdiği ortaya çıkmıştır."
"Bu kişi PKK ve YPG mensubu bir kişidir. Saldırının YPG irtibatı ortaya çıktı. Kişi, 1992 Amude doğumlu Salih Neccar adlı kişidir. Saldırıyla ilgili 9 kişi gözaltına alındı. YPG irtibatları kesindir."

This person is PKK and YPG member....is it YPG or PKK ? Connections to YPG is definite ......how definite. It doesn't seems like you know nothing other than is Name, and Personal info....if you have why don't you show them.

Our problem shouldn't be as of now, shouldn't be what YPG or FSA does in Syria. Our focus should be how to protect Turkish citizens from terror attacks.

I remind you how many times this "newly cleared terrorist leader" Salih Müslim come to Turkey in the past ?

PYD lideri Müslim’den gizli ziyaret
PYD Lideri Salih Müslim Türkiye'ye geldi - Milliyet.com.tr
PYD lideri Müslim neden Ankara'ya geldi? - Timeturk: Haber, Timeturk Haber, HABER, Günün haberleri, yorum, spor, ekonomi, politika, sanat, sinema
Salih Müslim: Türkiye'de PKK ile görüşmeler PYD'nin önünü açıyor - BBC Türkçe

How many times our officials talked and negotiated with him ? Are we want to go hard on PYD because they are fighting against FSA ? Fcvk FSA man, i won't change all of FSA for one of my countryman.....

I dunno mate.....

 

[Madali]

To @Sinan @xenon54 @Serpentine

May I jump in and give my opinion?

I don't think it is a false flag by Erdogan. This is an attack on the military personnel. How can Erdogan take a risk to do such an operation? Who will carry it out? What if it leaks? Erdogan will be personally destroyed. I can't think of an instance where a false flag was done by a government against its MILITARAY.

Who are the most likely to benefit from such an operation? Islamists rebels. If Daesh or Nusra did this, and blame it on the Kurds, then they benefit the most. They push the Turkish government to get involved in Syria and even if Turkey ONLY attacks the Syrian Kurds, that's enough for the Islamist Rebels. That's a big help. It would even be beneficial for KSA to support a group to do this without Erdogan's knowledge. Imagine if Salman had talked to Erdogan for a ground invasion but Turkey was reluctant. This would be a way for KSA to force Turkey's hand.

But of course these are all guesses. Sometimes the correct answer is the most obvious answer. The PKK did it and at worst, Erdogan used the tradegy to paint the Syrian Kurds with the same brush.

 

[-SINAN-]

To @Sinan @xenon54 @Serpentine

May I jump in and give my opinion?

I don't think it is a false flag by Erdogan. This is an attack on the military personnel. How can Erdogan take a risk to do such an operation? Who will carry it out? What if it leaks? Erdogan will be personally destroyed. I can't think of an instance where a false flag was done by a government against its MILITARAY.

Who are the most likely to benefit from such an operation? Islamists rebels. If Daesh or Nusra did this, and blame it on the Kurds, then they benefit the most. They push the Turkish government to get involved in Syria and even if Turkey ONLY attacks the Syrian Kurds, that's enough for the Islamist Rebels. That's a big help. It would even be beneficial for KSA to support a group to do this without Erdogan's knowledge. Imagine if Salman had talked to Erdogan for a ground invasion but Turkey was reluctant. This would be a way for KSA to force Turkey's hand.

But of course these are all guesses. Sometimes the correct answer is the most obvious answer. The PKK did it and at worst, Erdogan used the tradegy to paint the Syrian Kurds with the same brush.

Mate, i don't know about who did....but Turkey can't enter Syria...throw that assumption to trash. Nor Saudis can enter bythemselves... and US won't risk coming head on with Russia.

And Erdoğan have no balls..Syria gave the most legitimate reason back then when they shelled 5 of our people and shot down or Jet and there were no Russia. He didn't do it back then he will never do it now.

 

[Daneshmand]

To @Sinan @xenon54 @Serpentine

May I jump in and give my opinion?

I don't think it is a false flag by Erdogan. This is an attack on the military personnel. How can Erdogan take a risk to do such an operation? Who will carry it out? What if it leaks? Erdogan will be personally destroyed. I can't think of an instance where a false flag was done by a government against its MILITARAY.

Who are the most likely to benefit from such an operation? Islamists rebels. If Daesh or Nusra did this, and blame it on the Kurds, then they benefit the most. They push the Turkish government to get involved in Syria and even if Turkey ONLY attacks the Syrian Kurds, that's enough for the Islamist Rebels. That's a big help. It would even be beneficial for KSA to support a group to do this without Erdogan's knowledge. Imagine if Salman had talked to Erdogan for a ground invasion but Turkey was reluctant. This would be a way for KSA to force Turkey's hand.

But of course these are all guesses. Sometimes the correct answer is the most obvious answer. The PKK did it and at worst, Erdogan used the tradegy to paint the Syrian Kurds with the same brush.

I agree with you.

But a state has the responsibility to take all this into account from beforehand. It has the responsibility to prevent and/or unmask these events for its citizens. It has the responsibility to formulate policies which prevent a nation to be cornered like this. It has the responsibility to plan according to national capability of that state and not exceed those abilities and escalate to nowhere-land.

Otherwise intellectuals are going to blame it for complicity by omission, at the very least. Others might even go further than that.

Statecraft is about expecting what is ahead. Not what is behind.

 

[Uhuhu]

Mate, i don't know about who did....but Turkey can't enter Syria...throw that assumption to trash. Nor Saudis can enter bythemselves... and US won't risk coming head on with Russia.

And Erdoğan have no balls..Syria gave the most legitimate reason back then when they shelled 5 of our people and shot down or Jet and there were no Russia. He didn't do it back then he will never do it now.

because that time rebels and terrorists were strong and in offensive form.. so why erdogan should directly attack to syria and receive casualties while thousands extremists from all around the world could do the same mission?
but right now those rebels has no chance and they just fight for existence. thats why there is high probability that erdogan send troops to north of syria.
It is what saudis and other persian gulf arab states want.. because right now they are loosers, so if turkey will invade in syria , maybe there will be a chance that situation will be different. even if turkey will lost or receive many damages and casualties, they wont care.because nothing will be changed for them and their lands is far away enough from syria.
also western powers can use that situation to creat a kurdistan.
Maybe right now erdogan is allied with saudis and others persian gulf states in syrian issue. but dont forget erdogan is akhavanli and akhavanis are enemy for those monarchies during the last century. we all have seen what happened for morsi in egypt..

entering Syria is like a suicide mission in my view.. it just destabilize Turkey .

 

[New]

Top down approach does not work in promotion of science and reason. Only bottom to top progression helps in development of an advanced society. Therefore a plan is not needed. Rather we need personal convictions. In a country like Iran about five million personally invested individuals with convictions to break the anti-science taboos would more than suffice. I would be happy to see even five thousand for that matter. And the beauty of it all, is that, it need not for these individuals to agree with each other either. In fact they should NOT. They should chart and navigate their own convictions in their own personal capacities.

My dear friend, I feel to mention and emphasis it once again, that nor do I were subscribing any treating regiment either be it top down or down top, neither do I have any kind of interest and intention doing so.
In fact the very basic of our difference initiates right from here. I do not recognize the word "we" at all.
Who's we?
Me and a bunch of retards born inside some imaginary lines of border. Why isn't this word "we" applied to me and the people born in Asian continent, or the people born on this planet, or the people born on the Milky way galaxy?
If you start thinking about it then you would question the need to search for cures to solve the problems associated with this "we" society.
Your quest to dig a solution to engage the very problems associated with this "we" society is as reasonable as to start a community to raise the sensual respects of the herd of sheeps not to be ripped of by the wolfs.
Every single being is due to face the very own deserved fate of his, no single bite of less and no more, this would also be authentic for the future generations to come, so lets respect them the very owned right of theirs, and once for all free ourselves from the burden of responsibility.

West left it upto individuals to chart their personal ways. This is critical to progress. In Iran our biggest stumbling block is, we want to be part of a progressive wave which is wrong in my opinion. Since it causes us to think in terms of elimination in order to create a uniform progressive wave. The correct way is to learn to be an individual first without the need to ascribe any responsibility to anything or anyone else. And from there to work our way to challenge our Mamanamon and break the irrational taboos. No guts to challenge your Maman, no way you will be to progress; with or without religion. With or without West. With or without Naghdi.

Good for the west.

You should really go and live with a normal Western family for a while. You will learn, how a normal average Western parent chisels an individual out of a child. By emphasizing, encouraging and even through measured punishments making that child to become an individual. In a culture like ours, the child is raised to be an obedient social automaton, conformist to his/her social circle. Whether that circle be religious or anti-religious. What is missing, is the individual conviction of that child which was murdered in his/her crib

Very true, and duly either approved and also at the very same time, agreed.

 

[Daneshmand]

My dear friend, I feel to mention and emphasis it once again, that nor do I were subscribing any treating regiment either be it top down or down top, neither do I have any kind of interest and intention doing so.
In fact the very basic of our difference initiates right from here. I do not recognize the word "we" at all.
Who's we?
Me and a bunch of retards born inside some imaginary lines of border. Why isn't this word "we" applied to me and the people born in Asian continent, or the people born on this planet, or the people born on the Milky way galaxy?
If you start thinking about it then you would question the need to search for cures to solve the problems associated with this "we" society.
Your quest to dig a solution to engage the very problems associated with this "we" society is as reasonable as to start a community to raise the sensual respects of the herd of sheeps not to be ripped of by the wolfs.
Every single being is due to face the very own deserved fate of his, no single bite of less and no more, this would also be authentic for the future generations to come, so lets respect them the very owned right of theirs, and once for all free ourselves from the burden of responsibility.

The notion of "We" arises because you are not "Them". The "Them" has invented and discovered the world you know. You can can join them and live with them by moving to West. You can not become "Them" in your own land. If you had been able to chart your own way, then you would be you. Otherwise, your proposition does not stand valid. Till the day, you could make a you out of yourself, you will remain a "We", despite your vehement protests.

You see this is what happens, when individual of a person is eliminated. He/She is left with nothing but either be a "We" or feel completely useless. It is "We" that is determining who he/she is and not his indivisibility.

The herd of "We" has to go and be replaced by individuals who despite being indivisible in their person remain committed to each other because they realize, they have no one else but each other. They accept each other not because all are the same but because all are different and this difference brings richness to their lives.

It is not the society, I repeat again. It is the person who has to rise up to the challenge. Society is just an honorable contractual agreement arising from our biological needs. It can not replace individual reason and thinking. Never has and never will.

 

[scythian500]

 

[libertycall]

@Sinan no sense in letting the iranians manipulate your emotions. All nations have good and bad times. In bad times remember sabr, and in good times exact justice.

The Safavis took Baghdad....and were kicked out again.
The Safavis allied themselves with the colonialists against the Ottoman empire....and were themselves invaded and their holy places were bombed by their allies.
The Safavis had their 'revolution' in 1979 and threatened the whole Muslims world....and then hid behind 12 year old children and in the words of their Ayatollah were 'forced to drink poison'.

Have heart! After the victory of Badr there was the defeat of Uhud...but after Uhud there was the battle of Asad!

 

[New]

The notion of "We" arises because you are not "Them".

It's a philosophical challenge, you have to know that "we" ain't the complementary form for the term "them", one could be not "them" and at the same time also not be "we" but rather be "me". worth to mention either, that a bunch of other "me"s could be termed "them" without preserving them of holding any form of boundings.
But have to confess enjoyed your way of engaging the subject, not completely true, but interesting indeed.

You see this is what happens, when individual of a person is eliminated. He/She is left with nothing but either be a "We" or feel completely useless.

False reasoning, by clinching into false set of conclusions, in fact "we" starts at the moment when "me" is degraded, when "me"s are formed inn the fullest form of maturity it's not "we" that's being made, but they would form "us", hope that's not too much complicated to being understandable.

The herd of "We" has to go and be replaced by individuals who despite being indivisible in their person remain committed to each other because they realize, they have no one else but each other. They accept each other not because all are the same but because all are different and this difference brings richness to their lives.

In fact lets add up to the complication, and as much as I know you, that shouldn't be a problem, the very core of our diffrent views rise exactly as of this very little point, you are expecting indivisible individuals to be a result of a former creation of "we" while quiet opposed to that, I expect the formation of a worthy "us" being a result of some matured individual "me"s.

It is not the society, I repeat again. It is the person who has to rise up to the challenge. Society is just an honorable contractual agreement arising from our biological needs. It can not replace individual reason and thinking. Never has and never will.

I couldn't agree any more.

 

[Arminkh]

To @Sinan @xenon54 @Serpentine

May I jump in and give my opinion?

I don't think it is a false flag by Erdogan. This is an attack on the military personnel. How can Erdogan take a risk to do such an operation? Who will carry it out? What if it leaks? Erdogan will be personally destroyed. I can't think of an instance where a false flag was done by a government against its MILITARAY.

Who are the most likely to benefit from such an operation? Islamists rebels. If Daesh or Nusra did this, and blame it on the Kurds, then they benefit the most. They push the Turkish government to get involved in Syria and even if Turkey ONLY attacks the Syrian Kurds, that's enough for the Islamist Rebels. That's a big help. It would even be beneficial for KSA to support a group to do this without Erdogan's knowledge. Imagine if Salman had talked to Erdogan for a ground invasion but Turkey was reluctant. This would be a way for KSA to force Turkey's hand.

But of course these are all guesses. Sometimes the correct answer is the most obvious answer. The PKK did it and at worst, Erdogan used the tradegy to paint the Syrian Kurds with the same brush.

I agree with most of your reasoning but the part that says: "I can't think of an instance where a false flag was done by a government against its MILITARAY"

Actually US has done it once and arguably three times. First one, that was just confirmed about 8 years back was sinking of USS Maine back in 1898. It was blamed on Spanish navy stationed around Cuba. US back then, was looking to implement Monroe Doctrine and get rid of other colonial powers in areas where it called its own back yard however, the public opinion and senate was not in favor of a war with Spanish Empire. The incident, gave US the excuse to invade Cuba and not only push the Spanish out of Americas, they even gained access to other Spanish colonies in Asia.

Fast track to this century, an expeditionary team found the wracks of USS Maine and through computer simulation, found out that what caused it to sink was an explosion from within. It may have been caused by some ignorance on the crew part but timing couldn't be any more perfect for US. It was the right war at the right time. I don't believe in Luck so I say it probably was a false flag.

We Iranian usually say "The goal justifies the means". So who knows my friend? Who knows?

 

[scythian500]

Man Arabim nam keshide. Tarjomash ro ham mizashti.

yani 10 ta farmandeye arteshe topola az regime khastan bikhyale hamle be syria beshan chon artesheshoon oonghadr ha ghabel nist ke hamchin kari bokone va inke yaman ro natoonestan kari bokonan hanooz va inke avaghebe vahshatnaki baraye malakhestan khahad dasht

 

[Arminkh]

yani 10 ta farmandeye arteshe topola az regime khastan bikhyale hamle be syria beshan chon artesheshoon oonghadr ha ghabel nist ke hamchin kari bokone va inke yaman ro natoonestan kari bokonan hanooz va inke avaghebe vahshatnaki baraye malakhestan khahad dasht

Mamnoon, pas hade aghal ye serishoon aghl to sareshoon hast!

 

[Daneshmand]

It's a philosophical challenge, you have to know that "we" ain't the complementary form for the term "them", one could be not "them" and at the same time also not be "we" but rather be "me". worth to mention either, that a bunch of other "me"s could be termed "them" without preserving them of holding any form of boundings.
But have to confess enjoyed your way of engaging the subject, not completely true, but interesting indeed

"Them" is West. A collection of Western people with Western culture and Western system of social organization. You can not be "Them". Because you have nothing to offer to "Them", just like you do not have anything to offer yourself for that matter. Max you can do is get a PhD in a field discovered, invented and perfected by "Them". Your contribution to that field will remain nil. Since you are "We". You have no conviction of yourself. You have not yet become indivisible. Only an indivisible entity can make anew.

False reasoning, by clinching into false set of conclusions, in fact "we" starts at the moment when "me" is degraded, when "me"s are formed inn the fullest form of maturity it's not "we" that's being made, but they would form "us", hope that's not too much complicated to being understandable.

False accusation! (why am I not surprised?!). Read again what I have written above and think. You can not be "me". Since you have not yet discovered the "me". The "me" was done under when we were all in crib. All you can be today is "We". To break out of it, you must strive and create a new you ("me"). Otherwise if you are not able to do so, then as a Plan B, you can strive to raise your children to be moral and ethical individuals free from guilt of not being "We" but rather be committed to "We" (not by any means an easier task).

In fact lets add up to the complication, and as much as I know you, that shouldn't be a problem, the very core of our diffrent views rise exactly as of this very little point, you are expecting indivisible individuals to be a result of a former creation of "we" while quiet opposed to that, I expect the formation of a worthy "us" being a result of some matured individual "me"s.

"We" fuckk and we create our next generation. It is "We" that is giving rise to us all. The trick is when the baby is born, then accept the very simple fact, that this baby is a new indivisible individual and has every right to be an individual with his/her own ambitions and desires which should never be subservient to "We" in any way. The only worthy "us" here is the ones who after they fuckked, they also accept this simple truth and move on, chiseling the baby to become an individual. The moment you put a restriction on that baby to be a "mature" me, then game is destroyed. That baby has to chart its own way. What you call mature, will never be mature for his/her. That baby should be given the support to navigate the world as he/she deems fit and proper for him/herself.

 

[scythian500]

وی اضافه کرد: عملیات عمرانی رصدخانه ملی درحال انجام است و اکنون برای این رصدخانه به دید نجومی نیم ثانیه قوسی دست یافته ایم که از طریق این مزیت می توانیم از ابتدای اتوبان صدر سطح یک سکه ۵۰ تومانی را در انتهای اتوبان صدر مشاهده کنیم.

رئیس پژوهشکده نجوم پژوهشگاه دانش های بنیادی تاکید کرد: لایه نشانی بر روی آینه تلسکوپ رصدخانه ملی آغاز شده و طی این فرآیند لایه آلومینیومی بر روی آیینه قرار داده می شود که این فرآیند با کمک دانشگاهیان و شرکت های دانش بنیان داخلی انجام می شود.