Iranian army stages war-game on western border [PIC]

[gangsta_rap]

Dont you think there are things out there that the IRI simply does not wish to reveal just yet?

 

[eagle2007]

I wonder if we shouldn't have a dedicated thread to discussing possible future trends in Iranian armored warfare...

 

[Stryker1982]

I wonder if we shouldn't have a dedicated thread to discussing possible future trends in Iranian armored warfare...

What trends? The army only has enough to pay its salaries Imao. They got nothing.

 

[zartosht]

people are way too focused on a hypothetical American invasion.... I would say out of all the security challenges iran faces, that's probably the least likely to happen.

the americans are not fools. They are not going to get into a war with a serious enemy that can do serious damage to them unless they absolutely have no other choices..

iran's biggest security challenges are:

~Kurdish mercenaries getting outside support to destabalize iran

~Balochi mercenaries getting outside support to destabalize iran

~ America's inevitable defeat in Afghanistan. You will have a large Taliban like force controlling large chunks of the country very soon. With a high chance of them being hostile to iran (probably with American/Saudi backing). iran almost went to war against the Taliban in the late 90s, and another security challenge coming from there is highly plausible.

~ Daesh like force from Iraq trying to launch some sort of limited invasion, attacks, or create instability.

~ A limited war with Saudi Arabia, or other gulf countries of the region.

~ A limited war with Azerbaijan

Under all these circumstances, having competent well equipped ground forces + a capable air force will be invaluable. They will not only play a significant role in deterring those threats. But if push came to shove, Iranian casualties/damage from any such conflicts would be significantly less.

Even against the americans, people should look at the video of the confrontation on farsi island where the American sailors got captured/humiliated. American F-18s were constantly buzzing the area, and Iranian SAMs locking on them only dettered them from physically entering Iranian airspace. having actualy warplanes getting in their faces and locking on would almost gurantee that they would leave the area immediately... this just 1 little example out of potentially hundreds.... ...

to justify spending under 3% of GDP on defence while having no conventional military is outright betrayel.. I cannot see how any patriotic Iranian can argue for the status quo to continue.... iran needs a serious conventional modernization plan. and it starts with proper body armor for the troops.

 

[tirdad]

where is all this money going?

خودتو مسخره کردی یا مارو ؟

واقعاً نمی دونی کجا میره ؟

خرج عربای کسکش میشه.

What the F man, why hasnt Iran modernised its IRGC force yet atleast, isnt the IRGC supposed to be professionals with the best equipment compared to the regular army who are conscripts??? These pictures should be sent to that idiot Rouhani so he can get it in his small brain of his that Iran needs a bigger military budget or it wont modernize.

Regular Army maybe a conscript based.

But I bet you, A single Army Private is worth than whole IRGC.

Army has better trainings.

I served in Army, and i would say that those days were my best days in my life.

If an english armored division rolls through semnan desert from afghanistan, do you think we can stop them from getting to Tehran, Qom, Isfahan and all the cities that are literally right there?

Sorry Guy ...

before reaching Semnan Desert,

they should figth with other problems:

Water, Fuel, Mine fields, and Sand Storm.

Iran has good engineers and scientists.Best of luck.

When you don't have Money, You Have nothing.

Look t former Soviet Republics ...

Compare them to Iran.

I Just say one Country:

Romania:

They Have Several Sucssesfully Upgraded Tank/APC/IFV/AFV s.

they built their own Jet: IAR 80 in WW2 and newer model: IAR 99 Soim.

they have their own Hellicopter: IAR 330 Puma.

what about Iran ???

 

[VEVAK]

And for what?

What is an M-47 going to do for us? Even its 90 mm gun does not justify it's continued use in a modern military. It is obsolete. The only real use the guns on the 90 mm gun on the M-47 and the 105 on the M-60 has is for destroying APCs and IFVs. They can't destroy enemy tanks, not when our enemies have M1 Abrams and such.

If we need those guns to destroy enemy armoured vehicles we can take a different approach which gets rid of all these million types and subtypes of vehicles in our armed forces. We have a huge lack of standardisation because in the Pahlavi era we picked up whatever we could at a cheap price, then when Pahlavi had its oil boom, he started all sorts of weapons from Americans, Europeans, even Soviets sometimes just to improve relations, in a similar manner to Saudi. After the revolution, we had to scrape along with whatever we could pick up on the black market. After the war we bought a bunch of Soviet stuff and captured some Iraqi stuff. Then we tried making our own weapons, except we didn't really get rid of the equipment they were meant to replace.

What do we need for a standardised armour? 1 type of main battle tank, the Karrar. Throw everything else away. APCs? We need new ones anyway. Throw everything else away. Same case with IFVs. Want to destroy enemy light armoured vehicles that can't be killed with an IFV 25 mm (I'm using the Bradley as an example), or when a Karrar 125 is overkill? Simply make an upgunned 30 mm variant of your new IFV which is more useful in other situations.

1st to constantly view the U.S. as Iran's ONLY security challenge is absurd and a mistake!

2ndly Even the U.S. is limited in the number of Tanks it can deploy to the region that's why they deploy Humvees and other vehicles so keeping out dated tanks in storage and constantly increasing the number of tanks in storage facilities spread across the country is an important capability

3rd The absolute best way to cut defense budget is NOT by cutting weapons acquisition it's by cutting your troops size and the FACT is the true backbone of any countries military is the weapons they keep in storage and NOT how many men they have on payroll during peace time!
A country like Iran will NEVER be short on the number of people that will run to join and enlist in the military if the country ever gets attacked regardless of their politics but what they will be short on is the number of proper weapons the government can provide to the people that join up!

ONLY a fool would think that having a 12 million man army during peace time is a preferable capability over increasing your weapons stockpile... even if 11 million of them only get benefits rather than a paychecks! You would still have to be a fool to think paying paychecks to a Million people for military and security services is a positive capability over weapons accusation!

If Iran pay's 1 Million people Artesh, Basij, Sepah,.... an average of $400 USD a month Paychecks + benefits (Housing, Vouchers, Food, Healthcare, equipment,....) that = $4.8 Billion a year and in a span of a decade that's $48 Billion USD with no difference in capability from year 1 to year 10

Now if instead Iran had spent half of that on added accusations for example $1.5 Billion a year on Fighter jets + $200 Million a year on Helo's + $100 Million on MBT + $100 Mil on APC + $100 Million on Artillery peace's + $100 million on IFV + $100 million a year on unmanned ground vehicles + $100 Million on infantry support weapons + $100 Million a year on Sub
This is just an example for Iran military budget is not $5B a year BUT after a decade which Iran do you think would have been stronger militarily? The country that constantly added to it's military stockpile & created jobs and skilled workers in the process or the country that wasted it's funding down the drain during peace time with no added capability after a decade?


Clearly every platform needs to be upgraded to modern weapons and ticktacks!
And yes in a Tank vs Tank battle cannon's in general are obsolete! That's why in 2003 Iraq invasion US ATGM's took out more Iraqi tanks than the Abrams!
And vs the U.S. outdated tactics like massing large number of tanks next to each other will never happen because they'll just need 1 F-16 to drop a couple of sensor fuzzed CBU-105 & you'll loos any tank battle!

But this doesn't make Tanks obsolete overall!

Tanks are still heavily armored and even your outdated tanks can either be upgraded (replace the turret & cannon with lighter ATGM based weapon system + other weapons which will reduce overall weight and allow you to increase armor or be unmanned where you have your modern MBT controlling them and so much more)

 

[VEVAK]

people are way too focused on a hypothetical American invasion.... I would say out of all the security challenges iran faces, that's probably the least likely to happen.

the americans are not fools. They are not going to get into a war with a serious enemy that can do serious damage to them unless they absolutely have no other choices..

iran's biggest security challenges are:

~Kurdish mercenaries getting outside support to destabalize iran

~Balochi mercenaries getting outside support to destabalize iran

~ America's inevitable defeat in Afghanistan. You will have a large Taliban like force controlling large chunks of the country very soon. With a high chance of them being hostile to iran (probably with American/Saudi backing). iran almost went to war against the Taliban in the late 90s, and another security challenge coming from there is highly plausible.

~ Daesh like force from Iraq trying to launch some sort of limited invasion, attacks, or create instability.

~ A limited war with Saudi Arabia, or other gulf countries of the region.

~ A limited war with Azerbaijan

Under all these circumstances, having competent well equipped ground forces + a capable air force will be invaluable. They will not only play a significant role in deterring those threats. But if push came to shove, Iranian casualties/damage from any such conflicts would be significantly less.

Even against the americans, people should look at the video of the confrontation on farsi island where the American sailors got captured/humiliated. American F-18s were constantly buzzing the area, and Iranian SAMs locking on them only dettered them from physically entering Iranian airspace. having actualy warplanes getting in their faces and locking on would almost gurantee that they would leave the area immediately... this just 1 little example out of potentially hundreds.... ...

to justify spending under 3% of GDP on defence while having no conventional military is outright betrayel.. I cannot see how any patriotic Iranian can argue for the status quo to continue.... iran needs a serious conventional modernization plan. and it starts with proper body armor for the troops.

Yes it's beyond absurd!
If you want to be an advanced country then your defense industry needs to spearhead the countries technological development!

And 3% of the GDP (Nominal) is good for countries that have a healthy Tourism Industry whos government has NOT banned or destroyed various industries inside the country due to religious beliefs! 3% is good in countries where the government doesn't control all the natural resources from oil and gas to mining! 3% is good for countries that aren't being threatened & countries that can't create jobs by producing their own defensive products!

Iran need to be spending 7%-8% of it's GDP (nominal) with over 90% of the accusation being purely domestically produced!

This government owns most of the mines in the country and the fact that corruption is so deep and they are so greedy that they aren't even willing to see 1% of the 30 Million tones of steel & other alloy they are producing to go towards creating jobs by making defensive products to defend the country is concerning!

And their excuse for everything is that against the U.S. this is useless & that is useless and how we should all shut up and let them take all they can while they can!

And they bring absolute IDIOTS on TV talking about Militarism! Clear traitors what want Iran to spend less than we already are so they can take more than they already are taking!
It's absurd!

 

[Stryker1982]

Their is clearly a serious problem with the state of our ground forces, and last time I checked, countries are built on land. Which means having a modern and well equipped gf, will prevent us from turning into Syria. Its delusion to think that our rank and file ground forces are better than Syrians. Big security challenges iran faces from the west, in kurdistan and M-60's are not going to be enough. Its actually pathetic. Yes its so unlikely for ground invasion of Iran, but their are many threats that frankly this army has no method of handling. Any western back rebellion in Iran would destroy the country like they did to syria. Just dump TOW and RPG-7s in Iran and our tanks destroyed. Do you know how many 1000's of armoured vehicles have been destroyed in Syria. Do we really believe that our isolated and sanctioned nation is really any better at war than Syrians are? Or our troops are better trained??? Only like 6 weeks of training and then done. Thats it!? Do you think this soldier won't run from battle, or be disciplined enough like other modern and wealthy countries are??

Their army was woeful just like ours or else they would've destroyed rebels 5 years ago in a month. Out of all the threats its really separatism that's the biggest one and a ground force that doesn't look like WW2 would be much appreciated. Its actually embarrassing to see the state of our ground forces like this, how could our commanders talk like they are proud? are they idoits!?, or just thieves?. They should be hanging their heads in shame as I would. I feel sick of this country some times. Always disappointing, always stealing, when will it stop???. What happened to the billions and billion of dollars freed from the nuclear deal?

Where

Yes it's beyond absurd!
If you want to be an advanced country then your defense industry needs to spearhead the countries technological development!

And 3% of the GDP (Nominal) is good for countries that have a healthy Tourism Industry whos government has NOT banned or destroyed various industries inside the country due to religious beliefs! 3% is good in countries where the government doesn't control all the natural resources from oil and gas to mining! 3% is good for countries that aren't being threatened & countries that can't create jobs by producing their own defensive products!

Iran need to be spending 7%-8% of it's GDP (nominal) with over 90% of the accusation being purely domestically produced!

This government owns most of the mines in the country and the fact that corruption is so deep and they are so greedy that they aren't even willing to see 1% of the 30 Million tones of steel & other alloy they are producing to go towards creating jobs by making defensive products to defend the country is concerning!

And their excuse for everything is that against the U.S. this is useless & that is useless and how we should all shut up and let them take all they can while they can!

And they bring absolute IDIOTS on TV talking about Militarism! Clear traitors what want Iran to spend less than we already are so they can take more than they already are taking!
It's absurd!

Where did they say about less spending btw?

 

[AmirPatriot]

1st to constantly view the U.S. as Iran's ONLY security challenge is absurd and a mistake!

Exactly. This is what keep saying when I debate about how we have to respond to the rapid militarisation of regional governments. In this case, I didn't mention a war with the US at all.

2ndly Even the U.S. is limited in the number of Tanks it can deploy to the region that's why they deploy Humvees

Uhm, the M1 is a main battle tank. The Humvee isn't even an MRAP, it's at best a light armoured car. They are really incomparable.

A country like Iran will NEVER be short on the number of people that will run to join and enlist in the military if the country ever gets attacked

We do not enjoy the luxury of not needing to have conscription. Just look at the other countries that don't have conscription versus the ones that do. The ones that don't, are rich enough to equip their soldiers with the best, they have virtually no foreseeable threat to their mainland, or enormous enough populations (don't think 80 million, think 800 million) that they have a massive army even without conscription. Iran has none of these things. Of course there are some countries with not enough resources even for conscription, but we aren't one of those.

Green: Countries that don't have any armed service.

Blue: Countries that don't have conscription.

Purple: Countries that have active draft system, but less than 20% of the whole age group (include men or women), or 40% of the whole men age group if only male are conscripted are compelled to enlist.

Orange: Countries where the current government is planning to abolish conscription.

Red: Countries that have conscription.

However, I do think we should reduce the duration of conscription. About 2 months of training and 22 months of patrolling border areas in pickup trucks or garrisoning bases etc. is a total waste of people's lives and our resources.

If Iran pay's 1 Million people Artesh, Basij, Sepah,.... an average of $400 USD a month Paychecks + benefits (Housing, Vouchers, Food, Healthcare, equipment,....) that = $4.8 Billion a year and in a span of a decade that's $48 Billion USD with no difference in capability from year 1 to year 10

Now if instead Iran had spent half of that on added accusations for example $1.5 Billion a year on Fighter jets + $200 Million a year on Helo's + $100 Million on MBT + $100 Mil on APC + $100 Million on Artillery peace's + $100 million on IFV + $100 million a year on unmanned ground vehicles + $100 Million on infantry support weapons + $100 Million a year on Sub
This is just an example for Iran military budget is not $5B a year BUT after a decade which Iran do you think would have been stronger militarily? The country that constantly added to it's military stockpile & created jobs and skilled workers in the process or the country that wasted it's funding down the drain during peace time with no added capability after a decade?

Please, these figures are at best irrelevant and at worst arbitrary. We don't need to make cuts to fix our military. We have to do it and we have to start doing it right now. It is a shambles of obsolete equipment and non-existent standardisation. Spend $4.8 billion, $9.6 billion whatever extra a year. Otherwise we will turn into something like Lebanon, which in 2014 retired its last 4 Hawker Hunters of 1950s vintage, leaving it with no jet combat aircraft. Meanwhile its "neighbour"'s F-16 routinely violate its airspace, the same neighbours who are getting their first batch of F-35s.

That's why in 2003 Iraq invasion US ATGM's took out more Iraqi tanks than the Abrams! And vs the U.S. outdated tactics like massing large number of tanks next to each other will never happen because they'll just need 1 F-16 to drop a couple of sensor fuzzed CBU-105 & you'll loos any tank battle!

I've heard more than enough people comparing Iran with a country nearly a quarter the size and half the population, with completely different terrain, demographics, geopolitics, military posture and soft power. Please don't be one of those guys.

Tanks are still heavily armored and even your outdated tanks can either be upgraded (replace the turret & cannon with lighter ATGM based weapon system + other weapons which will reduce overall weight and allow you to increase armor or be unmanned where you have your modern MBT controlling them and so much more)

And what can these 50 year old robot M-60s do that a modern upgunned IFV cannot?

 

[TheCamelGuy]

Who needs conscription when u have a population that will obey the words of some cleric when he declares Jihad.. Enough in Iran who will sign up in that case.

Conscription isn't good, volunteers are more effective

 

[Parsipride]

Now when you watch these videos complete contrast to what they are showing on IRIB. What do they not equip are ground forces with proper gear?

 

[Dinky]

Yes it's beyond absurd!
If you want to be an advanced country then your defense industry needs to spearhead the countries technological development!

And 3% of the GDP (Nominal) is good for countries that have a healthy Tourism Industry whos government has NOT banned or destroyed various industries inside the country due to religious beliefs! 3% is good in countries where the government doesn't control all the natural resources from oil and gas to mining! 3% is good for countries that aren't being threatened & countries that can't create jobs by producing their own defensive products!

Iran need to be spending 7%-8% of it's GDP (nominal) with over 90% of the accusation being purely domestically produced!

This government owns most of the mines in the country and the fact that corruption is so deep and they are so greedy that they aren't even willing to see 1% of the 30 Million tones of steel & other alloy they are producing to go towards creating jobs by making defensive products to defend the country is concerning!

And their excuse for everything is that against the U.S. this is useless & that is useless and how we should all shut up and let them take all they can while they can!

And they bring absolute IDIOTS on TV talking about Militarism! Clear traitors what want Iran to spend less than we already are so they can take more than they already are taking!
It's absurd!

Is there a party in Iran that is like the Republicans of the US, where they love their military, because thats what iran needs.


And does anyone know what the hell happened to the 150 billion dollars of Iranian money that become unfrozen after the nuclear deal. I heard Its still in foreign banks because if they dump it into the economy it will cause inflation, Is this true? If it is then why dont they use some of it to buy foreign Military gear and weapons, that way it wont effect the economy. Or have i got everything wrong .

 

[SecularNationalist]

When you don't have Money, You Have nothing.

Look t former Soviet Republics ...

Compare them to Iran.

I Just say one Country:

Romania:

They Have Several Sucssesfully Upgraded Tank/APC/IFV/AFV s.

they built their own Jet: IAR 80 in WW2 and newer model: IAR 99 Soim.

they have their own Hellicopter: IAR 330 Puma.

what about Iran ???

Yea many nations have a good education system and produce good engineers and scientists but they lack resources.

 

[Stryker1982]

Is there a party in Iran that is like the Republicans of the US, where they love their military, because thats what iran needs.


And does anyone know what the hell happened to the 150 billion dollars of Iranian money that become unfrozen after the nuclear deal. I heard Its still in foreign banks because if they dump it into the economy it will cause inflation, Is this true? If it is then why dont they use some of it to buy foreign Military gear and weapons, that way it wont effect the economy. Or have i got everything wrong .

ugh, Only god knows the answer to this question my friend. We have no idea what they've done with the money.

 

[VEVAK]

Is there a party in Iran that is like the Republicans of the US, where they love their military, because thats what iran needs.


And does anyone know what the hell happened to the 150 billion dollars of Iranian money that become unfrozen after the nuclear deal. I heard Its still in foreign banks because if they dump it into the economy it will cause inflation, Is this true? If it is then why dont they use some of it to buy foreign Military gear and weapons, that way it wont effect the economy. Or have i got everything wrong .

Countries need foreign reserves because without it other countries wont invest into your country it acts as a security blanket for foreign investment especially in a country like Iran so you can't bring that money home so easily but you can transfer it into countries that do have equal amount of investments inside Iran so if it ever gets confiscated you can freeze their assets too! And massing foreign reserves without relatively equal amount of investments coming in is a mistake in my opinion!
Also, since Iran's Purchasing Power is much greater than it's GDP (nominal) you get more bang for your buck if you invest on domestic companies & RD


As for the military in politics in Iran political parties mean next to nothing when it comes to weapons acquisition! It's the action of individuals that matters! Since the Iran-Iraq war only 2 presidents have actually been able to properly manage weapons accusation & development. Rafzanjani & Khatami and they were both from different political parties!

Sadly in Iran the politician are not being truthful to the people and constant showboating of military capabilities is giving the illusion that they are spending a lot of money on weapons acquisitions when in reality they are not! And talking about the weaknesses of the military is a Taboo for Iran's media and all these combined leads regular people in Iran to be badly misinformed to a point that most are under the delusion that Iran's military is stronger than the Turkish Military! Some don't even know that even the UAE is spending 2-4 times of what Iran is spending on weapons acquisition!

Plus how you spend the money is extremely important and in Iran bad management and corruption combined has led to the fiasco we are in today!

Some Iranian general like to boast about how we have a 10 million man military(Basij Force) as if that's a capability to be proud of rather than a threat for the country! And anyone capable of doing simple math can see that simply feeding 10 million people during peace time is a threat that severely effects the countries ability to acquire weapons!

If Iran gives 5 Million man & women part time volunteer Basiji reserves only $80 a month($2.6 dollars a day) in benefits, supplies & equipment during peace time that would = $4.8 Billion a year & $48 Billion after a decade with NO added capabilities to Iran's military!

and on top of that If Iran pays 1 Million active personal an average of $400 a month (Paycheck +Benefits) that's another $4.8 Billion a year (This includes reservists & retirees benefits & pay)
Add these two together and Iran is paying $9.6 Billion USD for nothing & no added capabilities in the span of time!

And it doesn't matter if not all the cash is going out of the Defense budget at the end of the day this is what the government is paying in one form or another in paychecks or in benefits rather than weapons acquisition!

Where as a smart government would have only paid ~$3 Billion on paycheck and benefits during peace time for a smaller but better paid($600 per month ave), armed, equipped & trained military & you do job placement programs in the government or defense industry for those who choose to be reservists and have served a min of 6 years to act as your reserves & so their retirement gets passed off to another entity and you spend the rest on added weapons accusation & filling up the storage facilities for war time!

That's $6.6 billion a year & that may not sound like a lot but it adds up threw time let me show you
$6.5 Billion a year =
$1.5 Billion a year on various Missiles (That's 1,500 $1 Million USD missiles or 750 $2Million USD missiles a year)
$1.5 Billion a year on Fighter Jets (That 15 $100 Million USD fighter jets a year 150 in a span of a decade 300 in a span of 2 decades Ideally after the 1st decade & before the jets become useless you start adding 15 per year to storage as you buy new ones & constantly adding to your storage)
$250 Million on Large Aircrafts (1-2 per year)
$250 Million on Helo's

$1.5 Billion for Army & IRGC ground equipment as follows:
$150 Million a year on Tanks that's ~70 $2Million USD tanks a year 700 in a span of a decade
$150 Million a year on IFV
$150 Million a year on APC
$150 Million a year on towed artillery, SP artillery & Rocket Artillery
$150 Million a year on Jeeps & various unarmored ground vehicles of various types
$150 Million a year on Unguided Infantry Support Weapons , Morters, RPG,....
$150 Million a year on ATGM & MANPAD
$150 Million a year on various unmanned ground Vehicles & robots
$150 Million on Guns, Ammo & Body armor
$150 Million on command and control, Optics, Coms, computers & electronics

$500 Million for UAV's
$500 Million for Naval accusation (Ship, subs, speed boats,...)
$500 Million a year on Air Defense equipment
$100 Million a year on new bases, ports & storage facilities

And that's just $6.6 Billion that should have gone towards acquisitions rather than paychecks or benefits! So you see how you choose to spend your money is also important! And $10-$12Billion USD on yearly weapons accusation will go a long way in building up your forces and since you have your own military industry that's a lot of jobs with the added benefit of the cash getting recycled into your own economy

Sadly when it comes to weapons acquisitions both this government & the previous government have failed the people and that's 12 years of absolute failure & bad management and sadly NO political party in Iran is actively talking about this!