Iranian Arabs

[Esfand]

well, your impression is wrong. BTW, ethnicities have many different traditions, behaviors, and mindset. That's a fact. I really hate it when some pan-iranists call us turkified,

Many of the scholars you quoted earlier believe that is the case

 

[Surenas]

Many of the scholars you quoted earlier believe that is the case

Anyone with a set of brains know they have been Turkified. Although their culture is still very much Persian to this date. He claim he has nothing to do with Persians, but probably likes to celebrate Persian festivities, like Nowruz, which has nothing to do with their yurt-history.

 

[rmi5]

Many of the scholars you quoted earlier believe that is the case

Do you have any source(other than your a$$) that Khouzestanis are arabized and they are not arab?
Do you have any source(other than your a$$) that Azerbaijanis are turkified and they are not turk?

 

[Abii]

Serpentine is not responsible for my posts, and I'm sure Serpentine even disagrees with me. I am not even slightly hinting that I am speaking for Iranians on this forum, let alone the Iranian community.

My beef is with you and your people.

@Abii bro, I see you are online

Please tell us about your background.

I was born and grew up in Shiraz. My grandfather died when my dad was young, but apparently he was a grade A Qashqai that spoke better Turkish than Persian. It's quite interesting for me, because he's had zero influence over my father and his siblings in terms of both language and culture. I seem more interested in his Qashqai roots then they ever have and I didn't even know till I was really old. All I know is that he didn't bother teaching them the language and he died when they were all really young, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

My mom was born in Kerman, grew up in Isfahan (spent almost her entire childhood in Isfahan), but went to university in Shiraz and that's where my parents met and set up base after they got married.

 

[Esfand]

Do you have any source(other than your a$$) that Khouzestanis are arabized and they are not arab?
Do you have any source(other than your a$$) that Azerbaijanis are turkified and they are not turk?

Earlier you posted some info from scholars. I merely pointed out that some of those very same scholars believe that Azari's were turkified. If you re-read my first post to you, you will see that I never claimed anything else than this. No need to get sensitive.

 

[rmi5]

Earlier you posted some info from scholars. I merely pointed out that some of those very same scholars believe that Azari's were turkified. If you re-read my first post to you, you will see that I never claimed anything else than this. No need to get sensitive.

Instead of trolling, either give me the appropriate sources, or do not meddle in the subjects that are not your business.

 

[Esfand]

Instead of trolling, either give me the appropriate sources, or do not meddle in the subjects that are not your business.

I didn't troll and have no history of doing so.

Origin of the Azerbaijanis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


@rmi5 I'm writing this just to be clear (especially now that I saw Surenas thanked my post): My point was only to show that some of the sources you used have this opinion, nothing else.

 

[al-Hasani]

The only Iranian arabs I've had contact with were my uncle's ex wife's family. He married an arab girl from Bushehr (I think she was studying in university in Isfahan and that's where they met). She spoke clear Persian so you wouldn't know she was arab, but her family were a sight to see for me as a kid. We went down to Bushehr once and were guests at their home. The food was INCREDIBLY spicy. Apparently that's common down south. I also heard arabic being spoken for the first time in that house.

They got divorced a few years back though.

That sounds very interesting. Especially the cuisine part I have to admit. I did not know that there existed those big regional differences between the different regions of Iran and its peoples. Aside from more specific ones. Without knowing anything about the region or city my humble guess would be that the cuisine was formed largely due to trade. So basically it is probably a hybrid cuisine like most cuisines of the ME were mutual influences have occurred.

I do believe that the cuisine among the Iranian Arabs of the Southern provinces and in general Southern Iranians have significant similarities with the cuisines of the Khaleeji Arabs next by. Although there are probably differences between each region and city just like it is the case between Khaeelji Arabs themselves. For instance Kuwaitis have a somewhat different cuisine compared to Bahrainis. Likewise people of the Eastern Province in KSA (the only Khaleeji Arabs in KSA - about 200.000 Saudi Arabians speak a Khaleeji dialect) have a different cuisine compared to the one found in Qatar.

Arab cusiine is obviously very diverse due to + 20 Arab countries and the big geographical differences and influences even on a regional level but I would not say that Arab cuisine is very spicy overall. Rather quite neutral. The only exception is Yemeni cuisine which in general is quite spicy even on a wider world scale. Moroccan as well. In general the cuisine of the Arabian Peninsula uses spices due to the ancient trade routes. For instance there has been a 5000 year old trade/cultural connection to what is now India which was always famous for its spices. Later the Arabs went to South East Asia (Indonesia/Malaysia) where most of the species come from to further introduce more species. The trade fell rapidly after the Brits, French, Dutch gained a foothold in the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean and it culminated with them controlling most of the trade through the Dutch East India Company and later the British East India Company.

Dutch East India Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East India Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Southern Iran in general seems pretty secluded and unknown for the outsider. I mean Khuzestan is one of the most rich regions when it comes to culture and artifacts in Iran due to the indigenous Elamite heritage and that of the nearby Mesopotamia. While the nearby Fars Province obviously has Persepolis. Yet most of the exposure Iran get's, at least in my opinion, steams from the North and West. For instance the entire southern Iranian coastline is for many completely unknown land and I wonder if it is similar to the one found just across the Gulf.

Anyway sorry for the long essay.

@Ahriman are you there? I wanted to ask those questions about Lurs? I think that even your fellow Iranians wanted to ask them. I am supposed to study for an exam and not be around here.

 

[Abii]

^^
It's because of the pop'n density.

The southern and south-eastern part of the country are much less densely populated compared to the northern and north-western part of the country.

The difference is not as great as a country like China where almost the entire pop'n lives on one side of the country, but the difference in pop'n density partly explains it.

 

[ASQ-1918]

I didn't troll and have no history of doing so.

Origin of the Azerbaijanis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


@rmi5 I'm writing this just to be clear (especially now that I saw Surenas thanked my post): My point was only to show that some of the sources you used have this opinion, nothing else.

It doesn't takes a genius to see that Wikipedia is dominated by Pan-Iranist views, there is not a single quote from alternative views. And western (and even Russian ones like Minorsky) scholars supporting Pan-Iranist views is nothing new.

Moreover, most of the points listed there is simply BS. For instance, we do know very well that the population of both Azerbaijan's were largely nomadic and not sedentary like Tats (Iranians) of the area, on the other hand the quotes talk as if Azerbaijanis were sedentary like Iranians, this was not the case. Although even the opposite would not really mean much, Turks also adapted more and more into sedentary lifestyle later on. One also cites supposed "loss of vowel harmony" in language, but this is only seen in Tabriz dialect (and probably Zanjan I would believe, because of its proximity to Farsi speakers). For instance, there is a similar quote given from Vladimir Minorsky in Wikipedia, when one actually looks at the source, it becomes very evident that Minorsky talks about the Tabriz dialect, but of course this is written as if he talks about the whole language and not a single dialect! When it comes to other dialects of Iranian Azerbaijan, they all preserve the vowel harmony of Turkic.

Now, what is the credibility of those claims that twist even basic facts...

 

[ASQ-1918]

With regards to vowel harmony in South Azerbaijani dialects, it applies to even Arabic & Persian loanwords, let alone the Turkic vocabulary.

See: The impact of vowel harmony on the loanwords in the dialects of Azerbaijani Turkish in Iran, by Amir Khalilzadeh, with lots of examples.

 

[Saiful Islam]

Khanum is completely Turkic. Khan-um, my khan (Azerbaijani: Xanım, which basically translates into "my khan"). There are other versions such as Begum, Beg-um.

Edit: Delbar is Persian.

Not relevant, but just thought I'd add, Khanom/Khanum is a very popular Bangladeshi girl name

 

[Uhuhu]

There has been no polling to confirm that, but many Azeris do live in Tehran obviously and this wasn't my point. South Caspians, as you call them, are also a part of Iran. I don't know why you try to portray Iran as a Persian-only country, because it isn't. Iran is NOT equal to Persians, never has been. Iran is equal to Iranians, regardless of ethnicity. I have the impression that you want to say Tehran is Tehran because half of it are Azeris, and the other half are backward primitives who abuse women's rights on a daily basis, or maybe you don't, that's just my impression.

Please tell me honestly, how many times have you traveled to Mashhad, Isfahan, Shiraz or even Tabriz itself? How is Isfahan or Shiraz any different from Tehran or Tabriz or Ahwaz? Because your assumptions here at least show that you haven't visited them even once. How are women's rights in Yazd being abused? Yazd is a beautiful traditional city and a large portion of its people are religious and I fully respect their beliefs. They maybe different in some traditional beliefs, but not necessarily in a bad way.

About Bandar Abbas, well it isn't exactly a Persian city either, there are many Arabs living there and Niqab or Burqa is mostly an Arab tradition and you can't say for sure if they are 'forced' to wear them, because they are free not do so. It's like saying rights of a woman in Tabriz who wears a Chador are being abused because she is forced to do it. This doesn't even make sense.

And don't take me wrong dear, I'm not obsessed with this Turk/Persian/ Kurd/Lur/blah blah nonsense that Turks are X, Persians are Y or Kurds are Z. People who have realized that we are now in 21st century and can think a little bit, won't talk about these ethnic/race issues anymore, in a way to show that X race is better than Y. Just look at Europe now, borders of countries are not any limits or separating factors anymore. No German says I'm a chosen Aryan and and no French brags about Franks. We should learn from them and cut all these genetic/racist bs, that's why ME goes forward so slowly.

I have tried to say it before, but it seems some people are just waiting for trolling or accuse you to some nonsense, or immidietly take a offensive figure against you, I dont know what they get from it, but the only difference between people in tehran or isfehan with tabriz, except language,they eat more kufte than others.
all these stories started after ottoman collapsed and rising up pan turkism and young turks to falsify realities and russians interference( stalin/ soviet union) in kurdestan and azarbaijan and the reaction of reza khan against them that led him to ban the azari language and other ethnics languages in schools. you never can find such claims about differences from people who were living over 100 years ago in this area. check all the letters of the kings, Poets and ... .
in Iranian constitutional revolution people from baki and ganje were coming to Tehran to join the revolution. it's just last few decades that they are trying hard to make different identity for these people.

nowadays talking about borders is useless, it needs just some bilateral respect and and believe in free borders.
being a pan x and ultra nationalist is stupidity.

 

[ASQ-1918]

@Uhuhu

Laughable...

Whats even more funny is how you don't recognize how much of a pan-x, ultra-nationalist you yourself are...Or do you?

 

[Uhuhu]

@Uhuhu

Whats even more funny is how you don't recognize how much of a pan-x, ultra-nationalist you are...Or do you?

thanks for proving my words, but how exactly i am my friend? please explain it . and If it will be off-topic, i will be glad to receive it in a private message.