Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Arminkh]

1. im not a mind reader but 5 year ago IRGC said they are working on hydrogen powered engine but i can not find the news anymore and they did not said anything after that and its been 6 years now, i say as IRGC tolled us they made much more powerful missiles but ruhani put them in the warehouse so i guess they want to bring them out if my guess is right then Qhaem SLV would be 5 times more powerful than they said it would be or they want to use it for reentry engine for warheads to make them much much more faster. so im guessing IRGC already built the engine but they do not want to keep it a secret anymore.


2. well Iran military dose not have a Cyber defence force as a official branch of military ( Cyber defence, it exist but not as official branch of military ) so they want to build a massive building and name it national Cyber defence and make it official it will be very nice because they get there own budget from the Ministry of Defense and there will be only one chain of command from Ministry of Defense for both Army and IRGC personals, they will separate from being small groups from the army and irgc and they will form a large group, and they will be more focused.

like this

These guys till have not developed underground parking technology! what a waste of land!

 

[VEVAK]

1. im not a mind reader but 5 year ago IRGC said they are working on hydrogen powered engine but i can not find the news anymore and they did not said anything after that and its been 6 years now, i say as IRGC tolled us they made much more powerful missiles but ruhani put them in the warehouse so i guess they want to bring them out if my guess is right then Qhaem SLV would be 5 times more powerful than they said it would be or they want to use it for reentry engine for warheads to make them much much more faster. so im guessing IRGC already built the engine but they do not want to keep it a secret anymore.


2. well Iran military dose not have a Cyber defence force as a official branch of military ( Cyber defence, it exist but not as official branch of military ) so they want to build a massive building and name it national Cyber defence and make it official it will be very nice because they get there own budget from the Ministry of Defense and there will be only one chain of command from Ministry of Defense for both Army and IRGC personals, they will separate from being small groups from the army and irgc and they will form a large group, and they will be more focused.

like this

That still doesn't explain why we would turn Cold start engines that are only used in the vacuum of space into a MEGA project.
Yes Submarine production is a MEGA project, Yes upgrading all the countries Radars is a MEGA project & Yes Cyber infrastructure and security if it involves building new Supercomputers, server farms, programing, security, putting down 1000's of km of fiberoptics… would no doubt be a mega project but I don't see how cold start engine or ion engine R&D and production would require any more than a few million usd a year in funding for it to be considered a Mega Project that usually require investment in the 100's of millions and sometimes billions annually.

When it comes to the actual SLV's no doubt they should be a MEGA project & I believe we are so far behind in terms of sats in space that we need to be sending SLV's up on a monthly or at the very least bimonthly bases and I also believe for Iran the best option would be to do exactly what SpaceX did with the Falcon 9 in terms of clustering 9 engines together and I believe if we add the capability to increase and reduce thrust to our current engines we could potentially have a sufficient enough platform to put up to ~3 ton com sats in GEO or send probes to the moon or send a man into space....
I believe adding an efficient thrust control to our current liquid fuel rocket engines is key because rockets naturally lose weight as they climb and spend fuel so controlling how much fuel they use and when would be key in building more efficient boosters and in the future reusable boosters.

 

[VEVAK]

Cold gas technology can be used in PBV, exo-atmospheric ABM interceptors, satellite bus systems, space probes and finally hypersonic glide vehicles.
Mastering the complete chain, requires work or even a specialized institute.
We saw this with Manouchehr Mantegi's landing gear project. A group just specialized in various kinds of landing gears.
Having such a expert institute in the defense industry means that this critical technology feature can always be outsources to that institute if required.
At least I hope that this is what he talks about and not just about Simorghs Saman bus system, that may have been so underfunded that it still hasn't been mastered (bottleneck technology hurdle).

Funding is the major issue with Iran's space Program because the Sat's they are building today are simply not worth as much as the fuel required in the SLV's they are using and one big part in building a viable sat would be cold gas engines or in future ion engines so I do understand that we absolutely need such project but what I still don't understand is how they would be MEGA project.
Yes a Rocket/Jet propulsion laboratories is absolutely a necessity an organization like JPL would be a MEGA project an organization that does all types of R&D in Air & Space propulsion where they design, develop & test everything from Jet Engines to rocket engines to ion engines to testing and developing various types of fuel & super alloys and composites capable of withstanding extreme temperature.... Now that is a Mega project I would love for Iran to have but I just don't see Cold gas engines by themselves requiring so much funding to be considered as a MEGA project.

 

[skyshadow]

That still doesn't explain why we would turn Cold start engines that are only used in the vacuum of space into a MEGA project.
Yes Submarine production is a MEGA project, Yes upgrading all the countries Radars is a MEGA project & Yes Cyber infrastructure and security if it involves building new Supercomputers, server farms, programing, security, putting down 1000's of km of fiberoptics… would no doubt be a mega project but I don't see how cold start engine or ion engine R&D and production would require any more than a few million usd a year in funding for it to be considered a Mega Project that usually require investment in the 100's of millions and sometimes billions annually.

When it comes to the actual SLV's no doubt they should be a MEGA project & I believe we are so far behind in terms of sats in space that we need to be sending SLV's up on a monthly or at the very least bimonthly bases and I also believe for Iran the best option would be to do exactly what SpaceX did with the Falcon 9 in terms of clustering 9 engines together and I believe if we add the capability to increase and reduce thrust to our current engines we could potentially have a sufficient enough platform to put up to ~3 ton com sats in GEO or send probes to the moon or send a man into space....
I believe adding an efficient thrust control to our current liquid fuel rocket engines is key because rockets naturally lose weight as they climb and spend fuel so controlling how much fuel they use and when would be key in building more efficient boosters and in the future reusable boosters.

i do not know why they put it with other MEGA project but im guessing IRGC already built there cold start engines and the want to use it ( military or civilian ).

true true true true true but remember that our liquid fuel engines are very old and weak in the short distance they use a lot of fuel, with 4 engines simorgh will get you 500 km, make them 8 engines and it will get you 1000 km and you will raise the risk of failure almost twice and engines do not have the ability to keep up in the long run simorgh already dose not have a great success chart as you know that very well, unless they use Khorramshahr engines in your proposal that will get us almost 2 ton cargo capacity for let say the same range but much more appropriate results or build a new engine maybe solid fuel as they were going to do in Ghaem slv.

 

[Hack-Hook]

exo-atmospheric ABM interceptors

finally hypersonic glide vehicles

don't count on that, Sir Issac Newton laws wont allow such uses

i do not know why they put it with other MEGA project but im guessing IRGC already built there cold start engines and the want to use it ( military or civilian ).

let not attribute anything to IRGC. it is not their in their work field

 

[PeeD]

don't count on that, Sir Issac Newton laws wont allow such uses


let not attribute anything to IRGC. it is not their in their work field

Not as propulsion but for control and stabilization.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Not as propulsion but for control and stabilization.

Even for that ,because of inertia and law of motion that cold propulsion either won't provide enough force or if it provide that won't be able to provide it in fast enough time to be used for such purposes. It's better to use normal propulsion for that.
After all don't forget intercepting an incoming missile is all about timing. You don't have hours of timing and planning all must happen in minutes and seconds.

 

[PeeD]

Even for that ,because of inertia and law of motion that cold propulsion either won't provide enough force or if it provide that won't be able to provide it in fast enough time to be used for such purposes. It's better to use normal propulsion for that.
After all don't forget intercepting an incoming missile is all about timing. You don't have hours of timing and planning all must happen in minutes and seconds.

Agreed. I didn't talk about major course changes via cold gas propulsion, just axis stabilization and fine course adjustments.
This is a major critical subsystem for all those systems I mentioned, without it its almost impossible.

 

[skyshadow]

That still doesn't explain why we would turn Cold start engines that are only used in the vacuum of space into a MEGA project.
Yes Submarine production is a MEGA project, Yes upgrading all the countries Radars is a MEGA project & Yes Cyber infrastructure and security if it involves building new Supercomputers, server farms, programing, security, putting down 1000's of km of fiberoptics… would no doubt be a mega project but I don't see how cold start engine or ion engine R&D and production would require any more than a few million usd a year in funding for it to be considered a Mega Project that usually require investment in the 100's of millions and sometimes billions annually.

When it comes to the actual SLV's no doubt they should be a MEGA project & I believe we are so far behind in terms of sats in space that we need to be sending SLV's up on a monthly or at the very least bimonthly bases and I also believe for Iran the best option would be to do exactly what SpaceX did with the Falcon 9 in terms of clustering 9 engines together and I believe if we add the capability to increase and reduce thrust to our current engines we could potentially have a sufficient enough platform to put up to ~3 ton com sats in GEO or send probes to the moon or send a man into space....
I believe adding an efficient thrust control to our current liquid fuel rocket engines is key because rockets naturally lose weight as they climb and spend fuel so controlling how much fuel they use and when would be key in building more efficient boosters and in the future reusable boosters.

do not forget that the plan for building and continuing the construction of the 150-person aircraft was also one of the MEGA projects.

https://namehnews.com/fa/news/537961/جزئیات-مجوز-رئیس-جمهور-برای-اولویت-بخشی-به-5-طرح-امنیتی-و-دفاعی

 

[skyshadow]

3th of khordad

 

[WinterNights]

I could be completely wrong; but could they be talking about this type of rocket engine??

I could be completely wrong; but could they be talking about this kind of rocket engine?

They most definitely are talking about a cryogenic engine, I am not sure why some did not see this rather obvious fact?

 

[Hack-Hook]

I could be completely wrong; but could they be talking about this type of rocket engine??

I could be completely wrong; but could they be talking about this kind of rocket engine?

doubt he meant that , that's a logical step if you want to have meaningful space program , but if he meant that , he would have said that and also let be honest our methodology is not in a grade to build that.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Wouldn’t it explain why it’s categorized as a mega project? Isn’t this engine the next technology jump for Iran?

to be honnest its two to three step away.
first we must build bigger engines , then you must think about cryogenic engines
By the way if they mean cryogenic engine then good

 

[WinterNights]

to be honnest its two to three step away.
first we must build bigger engines , then you must think about cryogenic engines

If they have clearly hinted at it being cryogenic, why are you assuming it's something else? Short of them saying "cryogenic" do you expect any bigger hints?

 

[Hack-Hook]

If they have clearly hinted at it being cryogenic, why are you assuming it's something else? Short of them saying "cryogenic" do you expect any bigger hints?

They didn't hint at cryogenic engine . what he said was cold gas propulsion which is something else and is used to change satellite orbit and maneuvering satellites .