Iran Slaps the Sanctions and build its own Locomotive

[KRAIT]

@KRAIT
Its a sad fact the Pakistan didn't get a competent and patriotic leadership right from the start with a few exceptions. There are no second opinions about that.
I agree there are China, US and many other countries ready to assist Pakistan but first requirement is willingness of our leaders to accept that assistance. If someone is not willing to accept help, what help offering individual can do!!!
For electing a patriotic leadership, it should be present in the first place. Electing less bad leadership from two bad candidates leads you nowhere. And, of course, I don't blame anyone for electing a bad leadership other than Pakistanis

There is YT video about What Pakistan Education can learn from Indian Education system. They have said that without political parties, one can make a difference.


My point is we all know the superficial things but main issue is practical solution.

Blaming govt. and people won't change a thing. You can discuss specific questions so that you can see practical solutions.

About Iran, Yeah it change Iran in many aspects but it also affected the psyche of the people. The main aim should be people. Rest will eventually come.

 

[Etiene]

Its on two levels:

1) Strategic level. The whole useless confrontation with US, UK, Israel. Support of terrorists.
2) Tactical level. Silly provocative rhetoric by Ahmadinejad. For comparison, Khatami's policies were not different from Ahmedi's. But unlike Ahmedi Khatami did not make provocative speeches, smiled nicely. Thats why he was considered as "moderate" in entire world.

If the world community judges world leaders based on waves and smiles I think Netanyahu would be considered an extremist. Of course, it doesn’t.

When you are being bullied there is no other way to stop it than to confront the bully. The US and UK were Iran’s enemies before the revolution, and immediately after we all know what happened. So there was never much room for reconciliation. Irans history with the west has been a heartbreaking one I think.
I agree and I think Ahmadinejad’s stance against Israel have served Israel more than Iran.
But people have been chanting death to America and Israel amongst other for a long time, probably as long as the support for these groups you mention. But it’s not until 2012 that serious sanctions start. So I think that both can be ruled out as the cause of these sanctions. An enemy of America has gained in influence and power in a general sense, and this is a more reasonable explanation for these sanctions than some "silly" rhetoric.

 

[Lahorie]

There is YT video about What Pakistan Education can learn from Indian Education system. They have said that without political parties, one can make a difference.


My point is we all know the superficial things but main issue is practical solution.

Blaming govt. and people won't change a thing. You can discuss specific questions so that you can see practical solutions.

About Iran, Yeah it change Iran in many aspects but it also affected the psyche of the people. The main aim should be people. Rest will eventually come.

There is no doubt that Pakistan can learn many good lessons from its neighbours without any effect on its political/social system but willingness to learn is first requirement in which Pakistan's leadership, unfortunately, not interested right now.

Ofcourse, blaming the govt or people is not a solution but, unfortunately, you can't bypass both of them as an individual. There are many solutions present to solve the current leadership crisis but there is none to implement these solutions . Pakistan's current political leadership will never let anything happen to the current political system that can jeopardize their sole source of income.

Its very true that main aim of leadership should be people and their betterment but every political leadership has unstated desires to effect the psyche of the people.

 

[Secur]

Doesn't mean Pakistan was heaven on earth back then though

Any particular reason for so much hate against Pakistan ? Even with that many testimonies by different people , what is making it so hard for you to accept it ?

 

[500]

sorry fella !

but everybody knows khatami & ahmadi are completely different persons ...

I dont have any idea about your other bullshix

During Khatami much more Israeli civilians were killed by Iranian supported terrorists. Thats why I consider him much bigger criminal than Ahmadinejad. But he smiled nicely, thats why everyone considered him a "moderate".

If the world community judges world leaders based on waves and smiles I think Netanyahu would be considered an extremist. Of course, it doesn’t.

Netanyahu did not call other country a cancer and called for its extermination, he did not deny Nazi crimes against any people, did not threaten to close international straits and so on.

When you are being bullied there is no other way to stop it than to confront the bully. The US and UK were Iran’s enemies before the revolution, and immediately after we all know what happened. So there was never much room for reconciliation. Irans history with the west has been a heartbreaking one I think.

There many countries who confront US politically. But even USSR during cold war did not bring it to Iranian level.

I agree and I think Ahmadinejad’s stance against Israel have served Israel more than Iran.
But people have been chanting death to America and Israel amongst other for a long time, probably as long as the support for these groups you mention. But it’s not until 2012 that serious sanctions start. So I think that both can be ruled out as the cause of these sanctions. An enemy of America has gained in influence and power in a general sense, and this is a more reasonable explanation for these sanctions than some "silly" rhetoric.

Durinng Khatami there was no even talk about harsh international sanctions. I dont have any doubts that had Khatami remained a president 2012 sanctions were not introduced.

 

[Surenas]

According to some sources, Khatami gave Peres an hand during the funeral of former Pope. I don't see Ahmadinejad doing that.

 

[Etiene]

During Khatami much more Israeli civilians were killed by Iranian supported terrorists. Thats why I consider him much bigger criminal than Ahmadinejad. But he smiled nicely, thats why everyone considered him a "moderate".

Then it seems to be a matter of how the world community, and you personally, make judgements. Let's leave it at that.

Netanyahu did not call other country a cancer and called for its extermination, he did not deny Nazi crimes against any people, did not threaten to close international straits and so on.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...build-its-own-locomotive-8.html#ixzz2H2aMNL4M

You are right, this rhetoric has been heard. Regarding extermination however I'm not in the mood to discuss persian semantics.
But again I doubt these are the cause for the sanctions as I previously explained and closing Hormuz from what I have understood would be a reaction to choking sanctions and not based on whims. I do recall talks of Israeli nuclear strikes on Iran at some point. Rhetoric and the Middle East...

There many countries who confront US politically. But even USSR during cold war did not bring it to Iranian level.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...build-its-own-locomotive-8.html#ixzz2H2bw5JJ8

You are conveniently forgetting eight years of imposed war amongst other things.

Durinng Khatami there was no even talk about harsh international sanctions. I dont have any doubts that had Khatami remained a president 2012 sanctions were not introduced.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...build-its-own-locomotive-8.html#ixzz2H2cCdcgC

We'll never know.

 

[500]

You are conveniently forgetting eight years of imposed war amongst other things.

War was led and sponsored by Arabs, US was quite neutral there. Israel even helped Iran. But Iran slammed US and Israel and not the Arabs.

We'll never know.

For 26 years, until Ahmadinejad came to power in 2005 there were virtually no international sanctions on IRI. But then suddenly all started.

march 2006 - Resolution 1696 - demanding to end uranium enrichment.

december 2006 - Resolution 1737 - bans import and export of sensitive nuclear material and equipment, freezes the financial assets of those involved in Iran's nuclear activities.

march 2007 - Resolution 1803 - bans all of Iran's arms exports. freezes the assets and restricted the travel of people it deemed involved in the nuclear program. Encouraged scrutiny of the dealings of Iranian banks, allowed inspections of Iranian cargo ships and planes.

june 2010 - Resolution 1929 - Prohibits Iran from buying heavy weapons such as attack helicopters and missiles. Toughen rules on financial transactions with Iranian banks and increase the number of Iranian individuals and companies that are targeted with asset freezes and travel bans.

Finally in 2012 started really tough sanctions on Iranian economy: ban of oil export to EU, disconnection from SWIFT.

So everything started after Ahmadinejad's election. Coincidence?

 

[500]

According to some sources, Khatami gave Peres an hand during the funeral of former Pope. I don't see Ahmadinejad doing that.

Dont believe it happened and it does not change anything anyway. I remember well almost daily suicide attacks during Khatami's reign.

 

[Etiene]

War was led and sponsored by Arabs, US was quite neutral there. Israel even helped Iran. But Iran slammed US and Israel and not the Arabs.

What are your definitions of "quite neutral" and support ?

For 26 years, until Ahmadinejad came to power in 2005 there were virtually no international sanctions on IRI. But then suddenly all started.

march 2006 - Resolution 1696 - demanding to end uranium enrichment.

december 2006 - Resolution 1737 - bans import and export of sensitive nuclear material and equipment, freezes the financial assets of those involved in Iran's nuclear activities.

march 2007 - Resolution 1803 - bans all of Iran's arms exports. freezes the assets and restricted the travel of people it deemed involved in the nuclear program. Encouraged scrutiny of the dealings of Iranian banks, allowed inspections of Iranian cargo ships and planes.

june 2010 - Resolution 1929 - Prohibits Iran from buying heavy weapons such as attack helicopters and missiles. Toughen rules on financial transactions with Iranian banks and increase the number of Iranian individuals and companies that are targeted with asset freezes and travel bans.

Finally in 2012 started really tough sanctions on Iranian economy: ban of oil export to EU, disconnection from SWIFT.

So everything started after Ahmadinejad's election. Coincidence?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/irania...build-its-own-locomotive-8.html#ixzz2H5qJWQQI

The control of the military ,foreign policy, security issues and nuclear program does not lie in the hands of Iran's president. In that sense you should be careful with "eliminating doubts" in these issues with regard to the president.

 

[500]

What are your definitions of "quite neutral" and support ?



The control of the military ,foreign policy, security issues and nuclear program does not lie in the hands of Iran's president. In that sense you should be careful with "eliminating doubts" in these issues with regard to the president.

I know that he has not much of actual control, but he is a president and his words affect a lot the worlds opinion on Iran.

As u can see, for 26 years until his election there were no international sanctions. This guy is doing a great job.

 

[Surenas]

I think you are overpraising Ahmadinejad to relate all the sanctions to him. It has more to do with Iran's foreign policy, which lays in the hands of Khamenei, and not necessary with Ahmadinejad's idiotic rhetoric.

 

[Burger Boy]

According to some sources, Khatami gave Peres an hand during the funeral of former Pope. I don't see Ahmadinejad doing that.

I thought that was said about Khatami and Katsav, who is Persian Jew, not Peres.

 

[Etiene]

I know that he has not much of actual control, but he is a president and his words affect a lot the worlds opinion on Iran.

As u can see, for 26 years until his election there were no international sanctions. This guy is doing a great job.

Yes his words have an effect on world opinion. The rounds of sanctions however are supposedly due to the fear of a nuclear weapons program which is not related to the president as I mentioned. Understand that Iran's strategic interests and pursuit of them did not change with Ahmadinejad becoming president.

 

[Greenn]

Yes his words have an effect on world opinion. The rounds of sanctions however are supposedly due to the fear of a nuclear weapons program which is not related to the president as I mentioned. Understand that Iran's strategic interests and pursuit of them did not change with Ahmadinejad becoming president.

Ahmadinejad gave them an good excuse to put iran under pressure and sanctions. your president claimed it clearly that they want to wiped israel out. he did wrong and it was stupidly. If i say something like that,it has no value for international community and no one can do something against my country cause of that but when a President or an Official says it. the world count it as your word and your goal.