Aryan122
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QUOTE="Daneshmand, post: 7398870, member: 165025"]I am sorry but the quality of your post dropped significantly. You did not answer the questions I raised in response to your initial challenge to me. Rationally, you should have. Here are some points to keep in mind:
* Please when writing, make sure you format it in neat paragraphs. It makes it easier for a reader to read them since the visual field is not overwhelmed. You are about to become an engineer, and this must show in your writing. Not only your writing should be in a coherent and neatly styled blocks instead of one long fused text, but also it must be scientific and logical.[ QUOTE]
I apologize for that. I'm writing on my ipad screen ( extremly frustrating) and to be honest I don't attache that much importance to writing or paragraphing since this is a leisure type online forum.
I didn't say Iran is a communist country I said the mentality that you presented in your previous post was communist to the core. I'll explain further.
I don't know if you are read my post or just scanned through it. I did not say the company I said The assembly line. Our discussion was not over a new aerospace start up company that manufactures planes, rather we were talking about assembly lines like the one I mentioned in Tianjin, China. " Supply chain, Manufacturing components, assembly, design, test", Only an Aerospace and Transportation Company would need such divisions. If you want to talk about Iran's potential for an aerospace start-up company we could have that debate, but currently we are more concerned about Assembly lines and technology transfer.
Most people who work on assembly lines are technicians not engineers. Engineers would supervise the design, development, manufacturing, and even participate in flight test operations. Assembly of the parts they design would be an important portion of their job but they supervise the assembly, not do it themselves. At least in aircraft manufacturing that is the case.
For some maybe but not for us. We are talking about Iran. Since 1963 Iran has had an auto manufacturing industry, for nearly 52 years. Iran Khodro and Saipa are the living proofs that unless you have clear cut policies for quality-improvement and government dedication they will bear no fruit. Tell me where Korean cars were 52 years ago and where they are now. Iran-140 was proof of Iran's aircraft manufacturing's poor management and lack of responsibility. Iran-140 was not a High-Quality top of the line aircraft, it followed the soviet philosophy of "simple design but tough ". It's good aircraft but not for Iran. The engines were not compatible with Iran's weather condition. The engines have to be re-designed and reconfigured so they become compatible with Iran's weather condition. But they don't do it, they have been trying to upgrade the IR-140 cockpit to glass cockpit for 7 years now. We know the Iranian work ethics and our lack of responsibility. I could write a report at least 10 pages long about why Iran-140 is not a good aircraft for Iran. I would say An-72/74 would have been much better options. In Iran we don't have a culture of quality improvement this is the difference between us and other industrialized nations.
Sorry professor. But you have surface level understanding of how this industry works. I have talked to Iran-140 pilots, though they were captains on Iran-140, They said they rather be first officers on Western airplanes. If you actually talk to experts who work in Iran's aviation industry or even the Arta Kish flying school, they show no interest in Iranian made airplanes. Iran air tour basically ran away from the 10 ordered Ir-140. As I said demand is the fuel in this industry's engine just like other industries.
I'm sorry but as I said you have a surface level understanding of how industrialization works. you three posts contain multiple contradiction. You want Iran to be industrialized but the country doesn't have any potential for R&D. R&D is the reason why Korean and Japanese cars are not what they were 40 years ago. R&D is the basis for industrialization. The reason Turkey's economy has progressed so rapidly has been precisely because of export, the domestic market is too small for it to cause an industrial revolution. Bombardier is Canada's biggest R&D spender, China is slightly under US in R&D spending. Check out R&D productivity growth in Japan. Professor, if you can't do R&D you deserve to be a backward crippled country. R&D is what sets Germany apart from others in Manufacturing. Iran has tons of potential for export from agriculture products to industrial machinery, telecommunication, and engineering services. But you have to invest in R&D. The reason Israel has the best agriculture technology is because they spend more money on Agriculture R&D than any other nation. In Iran we still have a problem in connecting Universities to Industries let alone R&D.
Well another country tried that and failed miserably it was called The Soviet Union. After their collapse they washed their national flag carrier with Western Airplanes. This was Russia with a century old Aircraft manufacturing history. You want to take that path again There is no such thing as made in Iran planes. Just like Boeing 65 to 70 percent is made outside of USA.
Aviation industry is not engineering it's economics. That's why most Airline CEOs in the middle east or the West are all economic majors. Airplanes are made to be make money. The خو means pilots were trained according to the western standards and procedures on western airplanes. The Training that Iranian pilots and maintenance technicians and engineering have gone thorough has been western-based training to operate western made airplanes. Iran's aviation has been based on this system for over 80 years. Changing it would be extremely costly. There are literally hundreds of articles online written by Iranian pilots about why Russian planes are not good for Iran. one thing I have seen all them point out to is the lack of familiarity and the Russian companies insufficient training techniques for foreign crews.
Aircraft manufacturing is different. There are dozens of other fields in aerospace that they can hook up on. I agree with everything there but under the current leadership and management that is not doable. IR-140 was a good test. they failed and they failed miserably. They ignored the most basic technical requirements that an aircraft has to have prior to flying in Iran's weather condition. These are basic management principles and yet it failed.
* Please when writing, make sure you format it in neat paragraphs. It makes it easier for a reader to read them since the visual field is not overwhelmed. You are about to become an engineer, and this must show in your writing. Not only your writing should be in a coherent and neatly styled blocks instead of one long fused text, but also it must be scientific and logical.[ QUOTE]
I apologize for that. I'm writing on my ipad screen ( extremly frustrating) and to be honest I don't attache that much importance to writing or paragraphing since this is a leisure type online forum.
I didn't say Iran is a communist country I said the mentality that you presented in your previous post was communist to the core. I'll explain further.
I don't know if you are read my post or just scanned through it. I did not say the company I said The assembly line. Our discussion was not over a new aerospace start up company that manufactures planes, rather we were talking about assembly lines like the one I mentioned in Tianjin, China. " Supply chain, Manufacturing components, assembly, design, test", Only an Aerospace and Transportation Company would need such divisions. If you want to talk about Iran's potential for an aerospace start-up company we could have that debate, but currently we are more concerned about Assembly lines and technology transfer.
Most people who work on assembly lines are technicians not engineers. Engineers would supervise the design, development, manufacturing, and even participate in flight test operations. Assembly of the parts they design would be an important portion of their job but they supervise the assembly, not do it themselves. At least in aircraft manufacturing that is the case.
For some maybe but not for us. We are talking about Iran. Since 1963 Iran has had an auto manufacturing industry, for nearly 52 years. Iran Khodro and Saipa are the living proofs that unless you have clear cut policies for quality-improvement and government dedication they will bear no fruit. Tell me where Korean cars were 52 years ago and where they are now. Iran-140 was proof of Iran's aircraft manufacturing's poor management and lack of responsibility. Iran-140 was not a High-Quality top of the line aircraft, it followed the soviet philosophy of "simple design but tough ". It's good aircraft but not for Iran. The engines were not compatible with Iran's weather condition. The engines have to be re-designed and reconfigured so they become compatible with Iran's weather condition. But they don't do it, they have been trying to upgrade the IR-140 cockpit to glass cockpit for 7 years now. We know the Iranian work ethics and our lack of responsibility. I could write a report at least 10 pages long about why Iran-140 is not a good aircraft for Iran. I would say An-72/74 would have been much better options. In Iran we don't have a culture of quality improvement this is the difference between us and other industrialized nations.
Sorry professor. But you have surface level understanding of how this industry works. I have talked to Iran-140 pilots, though they were captains on Iran-140, They said they rather be first officers on Western airplanes. If you actually talk to experts who work in Iran's aviation industry or even the Arta Kish flying school, they show no interest in Iranian made airplanes. Iran air tour basically ran away from the 10 ordered Ir-140. As I said demand is the fuel in this industry's engine just like other industries.
I'm sorry but as I said you have a surface level understanding of how industrialization works. you three posts contain multiple contradiction. You want Iran to be industrialized but the country doesn't have any potential for R&D. R&D is the reason why Korean and Japanese cars are not what they were 40 years ago. R&D is the basis for industrialization. The reason Turkey's economy has progressed so rapidly has been precisely because of export, the domestic market is too small for it to cause an industrial revolution. Bombardier is Canada's biggest R&D spender, China is slightly under US in R&D spending. Check out R&D productivity growth in Japan. Professor, if you can't do R&D you deserve to be a backward crippled country. R&D is what sets Germany apart from others in Manufacturing. Iran has tons of potential for export from agriculture products to industrial machinery, telecommunication, and engineering services. But you have to invest in R&D. The reason Israel has the best agriculture technology is because they spend more money on Agriculture R&D than any other nation. In Iran we still have a problem in connecting Universities to Industries let alone R&D.
Well another country tried that and failed miserably it was called The Soviet Union. After their collapse they washed their national flag carrier with Western Airplanes. This was Russia with a century old Aircraft manufacturing history. You want to take that path again There is no such thing as made in Iran planes. Just like Boeing 65 to 70 percent is made outside of USA.
Aviation industry is not engineering it's economics. That's why most Airline CEOs in the middle east or the West are all economic majors. Airplanes are made to be make money. The خو means pilots were trained according to the western standards and procedures on western airplanes. The Training that Iranian pilots and maintenance technicians and engineering have gone thorough has been western-based training to operate western made airplanes. Iran's aviation has been based on this system for over 80 years. Changing it would be extremely costly. There are literally hundreds of articles online written by Iranian pilots about why Russian planes are not good for Iran. one thing I have seen all them point out to is the lack of familiarity and the Russian companies insufficient training techniques for foreign crews.
Aircraft manufacturing is different. There are dozens of other fields in aerospace that they can hook up on. I agree with everything there but under the current leadership and management that is not doable. IR-140 was a good test. they failed and they failed miserably. They ignored the most basic technical requirements that an aircraft has to have prior to flying in Iran's weather condition. These are basic management principles and yet it failed.
