Iran and Pakistan- Prospects of future relations after the nuke deal

[Edevelop]

I'm excited about the prospects. Insh'allah this is what we can expect in the next few years

 

[kamrananvaar]

If you think Iran's current Shia Mullah regime will have goodwill feelings for a Sunni country than you are mistaken, forget about brotherly relationship just concentrate on our business interest with yet another foreign country. remember Iran is India's strategic partner.

Its not about shia sunni its about looking after your own interests even you can make a deal with the devil if it suits youbin this case iran ans USA . If iran can put aside its differences why not pakistan .

@Serpentine
Excellent analysis.But I dont think they will convince in this matter.You can see that in this thread.
They will try to drag 'K' word in to this issue .
Lets wait and see.




There you goes

You cannot have a meaningful dialogue without even giving KASHMIR the right to self determination . You cant just push it aside like noora did recently withbthe moodi terrorist

 

[New Resolve]

As soon as things start stabilizing in in Afghanistan we need to look at getting the TAP (Turkmen-Pakistan) pipeline off the ground as well. Sooner we address the entire spectrum of our power problems the better for the economy.

A high speed rail link connecting CPEC to Turkey and Europe via Iran now that looks like a winner.

And how about importing more electricity from Iran on an urgent basis.

 

[VelocuR]

Great and many excellent points by @Serpentine

Once for all, Iran and Pakistan are permanently neighbors and our next doors.

 

[Arsalan]

Excellent post @Serpentine
I wish most of the points you have highlighted come to be true. There are some irregularities off-course, things i find are a bit too difficult to achieve or things that have been conveniently left out to debate on the assumptions or the actual prospects of Iran-Pakistan relations in wake on this new nuclear deal. For one, if you read that post, on number of points you have mentioned "leave India out of this" or " forget about India on this for a moment" now the Indians wont be very happy with that. Specially considering that it was them who supported you to some extent when Iran was under sanctions, even your own government will be a bit reluctant to shun them just like that in favor of Pakistan. Yes Iran and Pakistan have shared very close relations historically and i see that to happen again in future, i seriously hope it does. For me, our government rather then compromising on relations with a neighbor under pressure from Arabs should try to broker a deal for relatively peaceful relations between the Shia and Sunni block. At least get them to stop hurting others interest even if they do not agree to nurture. That is perhaps again i bit too much to ask but still, stranger things have happened. If the Sunni can seek Israel's and western help against Iran and Iran can strike a deal with western world it one deemed evil Kufaars, why can Shia and Sunni sit together for once!

Anyway, coming back to prospects, as have been pointed out in the opening post, they are IMMENSE. IN second post of this thread, @Horus have mentioned ECO. Now one can write a book about it and still left with much to say. ECO have tremendous potential. Unlike OIC is is an organization based on regional togetherness, like on lines of NATO for Europe. The region have similar interest and there are very very few points where interests of these nations will contradict. So if run properly, it have huge potential. With CPEC hopefully becoming a reality, Joining Iran and via Iran Turkey in a stronger rail and road link will be a win win for everyone. The land locked countries of central Asia can get access to Arabia sea and thus the Indian ocean. Think about Russia joining in to accomplish there decades old wish for warm waters. Even if we leave that alone, the ECO in itself, considering the members countries growth potential and enormous natural resources have potential to be one of the worlds most prominent multinational organizations.

A functioning ECO and better relations brokered between Arabs and Iran and we have a region that will surpass anything the world have. These are all possibilities dear, but, will take serious leader ship, dedicated people who will put the mutual interests first rather then there short term individual ones, not only at a personal level but at national level.

Again, i hope all you said @Serpentine becomes a reality and that will be great for the whole region.Look how beautiful this red line looks

 

[Serpentine]

Excellent post @Serpentine
I wish most of the points you have highlighted come to be true. There are some irregularities off-course, things i find are a bit too difficult to achieve or things that have been conveniently left out to debate on the assumptions or the actual prospects of Iran-Pakistan relations in wake on this new nuclear deal. For one, if you read that post, on number of points you have mentioned "leave India out of this" or " forget about India on this for a moment" now the Indians wont be very happy with that. Specially considering that it was them who supported you to some extent when Iran was under sanctions, even your own government will be a bit reluctant to shun them just like that in favor of Pakistan. Yes Iran and Pakistan have shared very close relations historically and i see that to happen again in future, i seriously hope it does. For me, our government rather then compromising on relations with a neighbor under pressure from Arabs should try to broker a deal for relatively peaceful relations between the Shia and Sunni block. At least get them to stop hurting others interest even if they do not agree to nurture. That is perhaps again i bit too much to ask but still, stranger things have happened. If the Sunni can seek Israel's and western help against Iran and Iran can strike a deal with western world it one deemed evil Kufaars, why can Shia and Sunni sit together for once!

Anyway, coming back to prospects, as have been pointed out in the opening post, they are IMMENSE. IN second post of this thread, @Horus have mentioned ECO. Now one can write a book about it and still left with much to say. ECO have tremendous potential. Unlike OIC is is an organization based on regional togetherness, like on lines of NATO for Europe. The region have similar interest and there are very very few points where interests of these nations will contradict. So if run properly, it have huge potential. With CPEC hopefully becoming a reality, Joining Iran and via Iran Turkey in a stronger rail and road link will be a win win for everyone. The land locked countries of central Asia can get access to Arabia sea and thus the Indian ocean. Think about Russia joining in to accomplish there decades old wish for warm waters. Even if we leave that alone, the ECO in itself, considering the members countries growth potential and enormous natural resources have potential to be one of the worlds most prominent multinational organizations.

A functioning ECO and better relations brokered between Arabs and Iran and we have a region that will surpass anything the world have. These are all possibilities dear, but, will take serious leader ship, dedicated people who will put the mutual interests first rather then there short term individual ones, not only at a personal level but at national level.

Again, i hope all you said @Serpentine becomes a reality and that will be great for the whole region.Look how beautiful this red line looks

I understand brother. By saying 'forget India Pakistan rivalry for a moment', as I already explained, I didn't mean to close your eyes on reality, I meant, there are situations, in which, even 2 enemies can stand to benefit. Chabahar-Gwadar is one of these cases, I don't see why Pakistan and India can't work on something that eventually, both of them would gain, without harming each other.

Pakistan and India already have diplomatic relations, their leaders meet every once in a while, and they have shown readiness to cooperate in areas that benefits them both. Nothing is impossible.

If US and Soviet Union can sit and talk, same as US and Iran, despite our vast differences and issues, India and Pakistan can do it too, in a win-win scenario.

 

[Arsalan]

I understand brother. By saying 'forget India Pakistan rivalry for a moment', as I already explained, I didn't mean to close your eyes on reality, I meant, there are situations, in which, even 2 enemies can stand to benefit. Chabahar-Gwadar is one of these cases, I don't see why Pakistan and India can't work on something that eventually, both of them would gain, without harming each other.

Pakistan and India already have diplomatic relations, their leaders meet every once in a while, and they have shown readiness to cooperate in areas that benefits them both. Nothing is impossible.

If US and Soviet Union can sit and talk, same as US and Iran, despite our vast differences and issues, India and Pakistan can do it too, in a win-win scenario.

They surely can do as i have also pointed to some aspects. Was just warning that Iran wont be able to leave India OUT, it will be Pakistan and India who will have to work together. It seems unlikely at the moment but stranger things have happened, you have pointed them out yourself And, as i have wished for Shia and Sunni to come to some terms.
Anyway, the valid point is that close cooperation between Iran and Pakistan and other countries of the region will surely bring a lot of good for the whole region.
Again, i will stress on the importance of ECO, we need to reactivate this as it have huge potential and will benefit a number of countries.

 

[haman10]

@Serpentine , you know i love you and you know i respect you to the end of times . but bro , lets open our eyes .

The so called IP pipeline is (was) a loss for Iran . we spent a Sh!t load of money to complete it on our side and we did . but lets put that into perspective : how much are we going to gain by continuation of this costly and stupid project ? i gotta assure you its not worth it . not at all .

Today's pakistan is not 1970's pakistan , nowadays you open a thread will all your heartiest good will and it won't take much for a some pakistani to drag the discussion into yet another Shia-Sunni shitfest .

these people are becoming more like a majority there (i am not sure about this , but i can see they are growing in number) , no matter how stupid you find them :

If you think Iran's current Shia Mullah regime will have goodwill feelings for a Sunni country than you are mistaken, forget about brotherly relationship just concentrate on our business interest with yet another foreign country. remember Iran is India's strategic partner.

so yeah @srNir is right . these people (from these people i mean this specific group of pakistanis) live in a different era than we do . they live in a different world . a world where everyone is a kafir , unless he/she abides by their ill will .

If we go on with this project there is ZERO guarantee that there will be no daily explosions along the line

i really pray that i'm wrong , but this is what i've established after reading thousands of posts by hundreds of pakistanis around this forum and elsewhere .

Iran and India will continue to establish more formidable and friendly ties while all they do is moan .

If pakistan cuts his ties with saudia , we'll do the same with india . it's never gonna happen .

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .

and dude please , the prospects of this deal goes far beyond the region . let's focus on Germens , Russians , french and other more powerful countries for now .

I want me some T-50s ASAP . lol

And, as i have wished for Shia and Sunni to come to some terms.

believe me , no one thinks like that here in Iran . unfortunately , one hell of a downside to being a 3rd world country is having a sectarian mindset .

I pray for my own country cause we've fortunately circumvented that phase without passing it .

 

[haviZsultan]

So, my dear Pakistanis, I'll get down to the nuts and bolts, without any introduction.

As you all know, after the nuclear deal (let's assume it materializes without any problems and that a next hawkish U.S president won't sabotage it which is unlikely), any obstacle in the way of Iran and Pakistan improving their economic relations will be removed, most importantly, the long awaited, and long delayed IP pipeline.

But the pipeline is only a part of the game, and there is a much broader scope and much more potential in economic relations: Given that Pakistan's Arab allies don't sabotage a pipeline or 'punish' Pakistan for cooperating with Iran, obviously, without any long term alternative for energy hungry Pakistan, let's imagine this pipeline is completed. There is tremendous potential in Iran's Sistan and Baluchestan province and Pakistan's Baluchestan. With Gwadar and Chabahar development speeding up, the whole area can witness huge economic boom, and in an ideal world, Gwadar and Chabahar Twin Ports, can make Dubai look like a walk in a park, considering their much much more strategic location compared to Dubai, which is what it is, simply because there was no serious rivalry, and of course, huge foreign investment.

Let's not consider these 2 ports as rivals for a second, but an opportunity, to develop an already underdeveloped region and to make up for at least some of the suffering that people in this region have gone through in decades.

I understand some Pakistanis may have some reservations about India using the port, but let's see, for once, the brighter side of the story, without any conspiracy theories, like, India wants to attack Pakistan from this port, wants to conquer Pakistan's Baluchestan, etc. Let's simply see it, as an opportunity, for developing India, who wants to increase its economic interest in Central Asia, like every other country. You know, this port is more important for Iran itself, than it is, for India, since it is our only oceanic port, and it can become the 'Shanghai of Iran'. So even if there is any truth to those conspiracies (which is very unlikely), Iran will never allow that to happen, since it will directly harm our interests, before it harms Pakistan.

Of course, this port will not be 'exclusively' used by India, there is much more than that. The whole Pakistani-Indian standoff over the Kashmir issue can be left behind the doors, in this very specific case, because this is a game that can have no losers, but all winners: Iran, Pakistan, India, China (and in the future, perhaps, the whole world).

IP pipeline is not the whole potential, but it can be a foundation, on which we can start building more and more. The most important requirement, is the political resolve by Indian and Pakistani officials, they should decide whether they want to chase each other and harm each other for eternity, or at least, in a very rare but positive move, they can both be winners.


Now putting India aside, Iran and Pakistan, among 2 most powerful Muslim countries, not only militarily, but most importantly, in terms of human resources and 'brains', which is the most influential factor, in development of a nation, can go much further than this state of relations, which is unfortunately, even behind the normal situation.

There is a very important factor: Unlike many countries in ME, Iran and Pakistan do not have any unsolvable issues, like border disputes, or ethnic and racial tensions, etc. Needless to say, we have had thousands of years of historical relations with each other, and we are from the same culture, and have been parts of the same empires for hundreds of years. Just look at Urdu language as an example and its proximity to Persian, nothing like this happens unless there is very strong shared history. The most detrimental force that is holding back Iran and Pakistan, ironically, are bunch of barefoot, foreign supported terrorists that are harming both countries, not just one. And this is absolutely nothing that can not be dealt with, it requires 2 things:

1- Cutting the sources of funds and arms, wherever they are coming from, which we all know somehow, and having a broad cooperation in countering terror activities. I know this has not happened yet, but maybe, the need for development of the area, can leave us with no other choice to cooperate in terms of military, joint operations and intelligence sharing. I know some bitter things have happened between us, but both sides are to blame, if we set aside our nationalistic stances for a moment.

2- I believe in the theory that says (my own theory ), where the prosperity (development, investment and strong economic atmosphere) comes from a door, backwardness and terrorism will go out from the other.

Now take note that, both of the above factors, at the same time, are needed to solve the issue and only one approach doesn't work.

Iran can ensure energy security for Western and southwestern areas of Pakistan. One of the main obstacles for Pakistan in the path of development, is energy shortages, so, as a short term or maybe middle term solution, we can greatly help Pakistan in this area.

The economic relations between the countries sees a huge potential ahead, the most important factor is, we are neighbors, and before that, we are brothers from the same culture,history, linguistics and values. There was never a Sunni-Shia tension in Iran-Pakistan relations (we were the first to recognize Pakistan as a sovereign nation) and the whole terrorism we are seeing today in Pakistan and in Baluchistan, is from a virus that was brought to Pakistan from outside. Of course Pakistani previous leaders are greatly at fault. Had they only 1/10th of the truly beloved and great leader, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in them, Pakistan would never be like this today. But it is nothing that can not be vaccinated, this virus can be eliminated, as soon as you 'decide' to completely eradicate the sources of infection in your country, those who are preaching nothing but hate and intolerance.

Neither Iran nor Pakistan deserve the current status quo, no matter how much mistakes we have had in the past. There are also long term opportunities (which can become a short term one if there is the will) that I didn't explain, like free trade agreements, joint free trade zones in Chabahar-Gwadar (Chabahar is already a free trade zone in Iran), an ecomoic corridor between Pakistan-Iran-Turkey, defense cooperation, joint military drills, and many other things.
---------------------------------------------------------
At the end, I ask Pakistani members (and also Iranians) to share their opinions and analysis about the future of Iran-Pakistan relations, in the post sanctions era.

@Irfan Baloch @Horus @Jungibaaz @WebMaster @Oscar @waz @Atanz @haviZsultan @beast89 @HAIDER @farhan_9909 @Desert Fox @DESERT FIGHTER @Peaceful Civilian @Jaanbaz @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @RAMPAGE @pakdefender @cb4 @Kharral @Donatello @Arsalan @WAJsal @Metanoia @LoveIcon
@Daneshmand @haman10 @rahi2357 @The SiLent crY @scythian500 @Arminkh

And any other whom I may have forgot.
-------------------------------------------------------
Please keep the thread clean from any hate contest or a troll war and let's share our disagreements in a civilized manner.

All hail to Pakistan Iran relations friend. This is a nice analysis.

 

[WAJsal]

At the end, I ask Pakistani members (and also Iranians) to share their opinions and analysis about the future of Iran-Pakistan relations, in the post sanctions era.

There most certainly is a huge potential. A lovely post to read.
I have never understood why Pakistan and Iran cannot build a great friendship and a stronger bond. If we work together we can most certainly end this terrorism problem at our borders, with more cooperation and intelligence sharing. With lifting of sanctions, work on I-P pipeline will soon start, a good new's. Much needed energy. Then there is a huge potential in almost every field.
As a person who favors Iran and want's to see better relation with Iran i am open to the idea. One can only hope.

 

[Serpentine]

@Serpentine , you know i love you and you know i respect you to the end of times . but bro , lets open our eyes .

The so called IP pipeline is (was) a loss for Iran . we spent a Sh!t load of money to complete it on our side and we did . but lets put that into perspective : how much are we going to gain by continuation of this costly and stupid project ? i gotta assure you its not worth it . not at all .

Today's pakistan is not 1970's pakistan , nowadays you open a thread will all your heartiest good will and it won't take much for a some pakistani to drag the discussion into yet another Shia-Sunni shitfest .

these people are becoming more like a majority there (i am not sure about this , but i can see they are growing in number) , no matter how stupid you find them :



so yeah @srNir is right . these people (from these people i mean this specific group of pakistanis) live in a different era than we do . they live in a different world . a world where everyone is a kafir , unless he/she abides by their ill will .

If we go on with this project there is ZERO guarantee that there will be no daily explosions along the line

i really pray that i'm wrong , but this is what i've established after reading thousands of posts by hundreds of pakistanis around this forum and elsewhere .

Iran and India will continue to establish more formidable and friendly ties while all they do is moan .

If pakistan cuts his ties with saudia , we'll do the same with india . it's never gonna happen .

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .

and dude please , the prospects of this deal goes far beyond the region . let's focus on Germens , Russians , french and other more powerful countries for now .

I want me some T-50s ASAP . lol


believe me , no one thinks like that here in Iran . unfortunately , one hell of a downside to being a 3rd world country is having a sectarian mindset .

I pray for my own country cause we've fortunately circumvented that phase without passing it .

I understand your concern bro. But let me ask you a question: how many Pakistanis are on this forum? 100? 200? 1000? How many of them come under that category you said?

Please, do not ever let yourself to be guided by these false impressions, posts of 10,20,30 members of a nation of 180 million.

Look at this thread, how many members supported improving relations and how many members opposed it? The answer is obvious. Naturally, in Pakistan too, like other countries, there are opposing forces, there are those who may hate us, there are those who may love Saudis, that's not the matter. The point is, what is the majority saying? And also, what are our interests?


About building our side of pipeline, you are deeply wrong. Whether IP is built or not, we HAD to make this pipeline, because Sistan and many parts of Kerman province did not have access to natural gas. They now have it. So we have not lost anything here.

Also, one of the obstacles in construction of this pipeline was sanctions that made transactions of money practically very difficult.

Let's not judge things over what we see from few people and see the bigger picture here. Unfortunately, this forum can shape very negative image of countries in people's minds, to an extent that they see it as the pure reality. I won't lie, even I may have got angry over a member's post and then generalized that to a whole country, even for Pakistan. I have learned to get over that now and don't take offensive posts seriously, at least outside this forum.

I mean, for a country like Saudi Arabia, we can be sure they mostly hate us, but for Pakistan, you are wrong.

PS: India is not an 'ally', it's an economic partner with friendly relations, same as Turkey. Neither they consider us as allies. Ally is completely different from that. And it's not about trust, it's about interest.

 

[kez]

For one, if you read that post, on number of points you have mentioned "leave India out of this" or " forget about India on this for a moment" now the Indians wont be very happy with that. Specially considering that it was them who supported you to some extent when Iran was under sanctions, even your own government will be a bit reluctant to shun them just like that in favor of Pakistan.

When he said 'forget India for the moment' it did not mean that India's relations with Iran would go down in any way.

He meant that Pakistanis should focus on just Iran-Pakistan relations instead of Pakistan bothering about India-Iran relations.

On a side note - India's relations with Iran are going to go on an upswing massively now. There are investments worth hundreds of millions of dollars lined up by Indian private sector companies for Iran which they couldn't go forward with because of sanctions. Only the GoI had the power to defy US sanctions, private Indian companies couldn't do so.

Iran's plans are also tying with ours, they are massively building railway and road connections directly to other Central Asian countries(not connecting to Afghanistan).

So our route for trade with central asia becomes independent of Afghanistan.

Iran and India will continue to establish more formidable and friendly ties while all they do is moan .

If pakistan cuts his ties with saudia , we'll do the same with india . it's never gonna happen .

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .

PS: India is not an 'ally', it's an economic partner with friendly relations, same as Turkey. Neither they consider us as allies. Ally is completely different from that. And it's not about trust, it's about interest.

Even if Pakistan were to cut its relations with Saudi Arabia, it is not quite possible for Iran to cut its relations with India or India to cut its relations with Iran. India and Iranian interests coincide far too much and our economies far too complimentary to be able to do that.

 

[OrionHunter]

Friendship is a two way street my friend. There is nothing for Iran to loose here but everything for us to loose in case India gets it's foothold in our backyard. Pakistan has never accepted Indian hegemony in this region before and we will do our best to stop it from growing in the future.

See? With people like you around to throw a spanner in the works, this thread is already being derailed. You're missing the wood for the trees. For people like you, economic upliftment of the region is of low priority. Enmity is the be-all and end-all of your very existence.Wake up and get out of your cocoon of hate.

This is becoming a globalized world where trade and economy will rule the roost, not your pithy warmongering.

 

[Bouncer]

ECO should become our focus now.

THIS. A thousand times THIS.

Pakistan and Iran can not only put their economies in the fifth gear but our combined diplomatic clout can do wonders for us.

Working closely with Iran does not mean we have to abandon our relations with the Arab countries. We are capable of balancing these two blocks, like we did recently in Yemen. Here is my personal wish list for the way forward;

1. Commission the IPI gas pipeline ASAP
2. Eliminate anti-Iran groups from the border regions. We are doing mighty fine job in tribal areas and same will should be employed in Baluchistan.
3. Encourage trade and industry in Baluchistan. SEZs focused on Iran etc etc.

 

[Sipahi]

Peoples are getting to optimistic about every thing,

wait for IP gas pipeline to complete then dream freely for next steps...