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Iran and Pakistan- Prospects of future relations after the nuke deal

@Serpentine , you know i love you and you know i respect you to the end of times . but bro , lets open our eyes .

The so called IP pipeline is (was) a loss for Iran . we spent a Sh!t load of money to complete it on our side and we did . but lets put that into perspective : how much are we going to gain by continuation of this costly and stupid project ? i gotta assure you its not worth it . not at all .

Today's pakistan is not 1970's pakistan , nowadays you open a thread will all your heartiest good will and it won't take much for a some pakistani to drag the discussion into yet another Shia-Sunni shitfest .

these people are becoming more like a majority there (i am not sure about this , but i can see they are growing in number) , no matter how stupid you find them :



so yeah @srNir is right . these people (from these people i mean this specific group of pakistanis) live in a different era than we do . they live in a different world . a world where everyone is a kafir , unless he/she abides by their ill will .

If we go on with this project there is ZERO guarantee that there will be no daily explosions along the line

i really pray that i'm wrong , but this is what i've established after reading thousands of posts by hundreds of pakistanis around this forum and elsewhere .

Iran and India will continue to establish more formidable and friendly ties while all they do is moan .

If pakistan cuts his ties with saudia , we'll do the same with india . it's never gonna happen .

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .

and dude please , the prospects of this deal goes far beyond the region . let's focus on Germens , Russians , french and other more powerful countries for now .

I want me some T-50s ASAP . lol


believe me , no one thinks like that here in Iran . unfortunately , one hell of a downside to being a 3rd world country is having a sectarian mindset .

I pray for my own country cause we've fortunately circumvented that phase without passing it .

Bro, we should not generalize. We should rely on factual data not our personal perception (specially through internet and media): Iran’s Global Image | Pew Research Center
 
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Honestly if it weren't for extremists in Pakistan we could benefit a lot economically along with India and Iran. I don't understand why we can't put our differences aside for a moment and think about the possible opportunities if India and Pakistan worked together, look India and China has border issues but when it comes to business both sides know its good for them, on our side we have too many brainwashed sectarian and kafir hating clowns who don't believe in uplifting poor conditions of people in this region, all they want is their Jihad against Shia and Hindu kafir.

PS: Expect more sectarian hatred being exported by Saudis, they are fuming and going mad, expect Israel and Saudia to work together against Iran with even more energy.
 
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If Pakistan doesn't screw up CPEC then that could also play a huge role in regional connectivity.
Imagine trucks and supplies going from Iran to Western China through Pakistan and vice versa.
The two countries also share a vital interest in keeping Balochistan calm.
Sectarian groups in Balochistan present a major problem however.
 
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indians were forced to reduce imports of Iranian oil during escalation of sanctions and they did so - which led to Iran being forced to seize an indian state-owned oil tanker some years back

india wasnt entirely supportive of Iran but then again neither were we - when we back-tracked on the I-P deal due to international pressure
Exactly, it is not that Indians were absolutely supportive of Iran but comparatively they were among the ones with better relations. Anyway, that is history now. It is beginning of a new era for Iran (a promising one at that as of now) and it is high time we get our foreign policies straight and play our part in the overall betterment and development of the region. We have a lot to offer and lot to gain and our relations should not be governed by pressure from other states. I know it is unrealistic to assume that we will just simply ignore every other country, we cannot live in isolation but at least our governments should start putting Pakistan first.
 
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so yeah @srNir is right . these people (from these people i mean this specific group of pakistanis) live in a different era than we do . they live in a different world . a world where everyone is a kafir , unless he/she abides by their ill will .

If we go on with this project there is ZERO guarantee that there will be no daily explosions along the line

i really pray that i'm wrong , but this is what i've established after reading thousands of posts by hundreds of pakistanis around this forum and elsewhere .

Iran and India will continue to establish more formidable and friendly ties while all they do is moan .

If pakistan cuts his ties with saudia , we'll do the same with india . it's never gonna happen .

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .

For us Saudia is much better and trustworthy ally than Iran. Iranian govt sees thru Shia sunni glasses we dont, we have a vast and prospering Shia majority and they are posted at every sphere and even the most important positions in politics and military. 99% Pakistanis are color blind to sectarianism and do not care about others sect. While Iran in the past has been found guilty of meddling and spread sectarianism in Pakistan...Can you tell me last time Iran sent us friendly gestures? I will not even mention the nuclear backstabbing.
 
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For us Saudia is much better and trustworthy ally than Iran. Iranian govt sees thru Shia sunni glasses we dont, we have a vast and prospering Shia majority and they are posted at every sphere and even the most important positions in politics and military. 99% Pakistanis are color blind to sectarianism and do not care about others sect. While Iran in the past has been found guilty of meddling and spread sectarianism in Pakistan...Can you tell me last time Iran sent us friendly gestures?

have elements in KSA not viewed things on a sectarian lens? It works both ways
 
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have elements in KSA not viewed things on a sectarian lens? It works both ways

I am not defending Saudia here budd
I am talking about who better to protect Pakistan's interest in the past.
 
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I agree with what you have said.

Let us be united for the sake of development. Both countries should address each other's concerns and remove the obstacles in the path of a truly great partnership.

I want to see Iran as our strategic partner and friend.

our biggest mutual threat is Jundullah (both factions that terrorise Pakistan and Iran) Lashker Jhangvi, TTP, BLA and now Daesh. the handlers of these proxies will terrorise the people of Pakistan and Iran and also blow up the infrastructure to cause tensions and mistrust between the two countries.

Pakistan needs to crush these proxies and their leaders should be executed immediately just like they are executed in Iran and our state should fear the anger of their Arab handlers. this is about mutual economic benefit and peace.

have elements in KSA not viewed things on a sectarian lens? It works both ways

all death cults that have made their name across the globe belong to one ideology and one faith only and unfortunately its the takfiri ideology that stems from wahabism. this is why these organisations are directly or indirectly supported to cause chaos in the middle east and beyond.
their most recent and most vile incarnation being the Daesh. hopefully our political leadership will show some more spine to deal with it otherwise all perceived benefits from this US-Iran deal will be lost in blood and tears of our people/

I am not defending Saudia here budd
I am talking about who better to protect Pakistan's interest in the past.
Yes
this should be the key and protecting our interests mean deny all those who would use BLA or LeJ proxies against us.
 
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@Serpentine , you know i love you and you know i respect you to the end of times . but bro , lets open our eyes .

The so called IP pipeline is (was) a loss for Iran . we spent a Sh!t load of money to complete it on our side and we did . but lets put that into perspective : how much are we going to gain by continuation of this costly and stupid project ? i gotta assure you its not worth it . not at all .

Today's pakistan is not 1970's pakistan , nowadays you open a thread will all your heartiest good will and it won't take much for a some pakistani to drag the discussion into yet another Shia-Sunni shitfest .

these people are becoming more like a majority there (i am not sure about this , but i can see they are growing in number) , no matter how stupid you find them ...

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .

Dude Pakistanis were the only people who gave your country a favourable rating in the most recent pew poll (Pakistan only country where majority views Iran positively: PEW - Pakistan - DAWN.COM Your "ally's" the Indians dont see you favourably either so lets set that straight first. Most Pakistanis like and want to work with Iran. I am Sunni and I want closer ties between our countries. Just because a vocal sectarian minority exists doesnt meant that you should let it silence the majority who want to work with you. Our government did not send our forces to Yemen, our navy trains with yours, The Chinese are getting invovled in the pipeline (China to Build Pipeline From Iran to Pakistan - WSJ
then why so much anger and skepticism towards us.

You are welcome to trust your "ally's" the Indians but know that they wont have any problem betraying you (India votes against Iran in IAEA resolution - The Hindu when their interests dont meet with yours. Also remember that Modi is extremely keen on expanding Indian ties with Israel. Ultimately both India and Pakistan will benefit from the removal of sanctions on Iran. Given that this thread is about Iran and Pakistan specifically I am optimistic about the near future. Nawaz Sharif has made providing gas and electricity a major goal of his government and is something he is basing his political campaign on. Our next elections are less than 3 years away meaning that he will have to fulfill his promises if he wants to stand a chance at winning the elections again. It is in the interest of his own political future to build the pipeline hence. We are also building an economic corridor from Balochistan to China. In the process thus Iran and China will also be connected to each other through these highways. We have much to gain by working together and of course issues exist between us, there is no point in denying that but we need to resolve them for the better of both of us.

@Serpentine , great post and analysis!
 
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Sky is the limit.......
This region will form the core of world both in terms of business as well as security. I can already see an axis developing between Iran, Pakistan, Russia, China and central Asian republics. India will be left out of this new "Axis of the century". Iran will get access to China. Pakistan will get oil and gas from Iran. I am predicting that Pakistan, Iran will emerge as the mighty regional powers within a decade or two with the help of China and Russia.
But we have to wait how much Iran embraces America. There is a risk that Iran could join India and America in the new Asian dispensation.
There is huge potential to be unlocked if Iran is made a permanent member of sco. Imagine sco along with Iran.
Simply mind boggling.
Unsurprisingly Pakistan is again emerging as the epicentre of this new world order.
 
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ECO should become our focus now.

ECO_Map.png

It will be, whatever else happens, there will be a time where our relations with Afghanistan and Iran will become far better than they are now and ever were.
 
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If pakistan cuts his ties with saudia , we'll do the same with india . it's never gonna happen .

for now india is a much better and trustworthy Ally than pakistanis .
Brother, relations of any country with India are a valid concern for us, especially now that cross border firings are on the rise... each rising day a new barrage of shit is hurled at my country... along with some seriously ridiculous claims such as the famous pigeon fiasco... every passing day there are new allegations and new false bravado like breaking Baluchistan and bla bla... how can one not be concerned...

Saudi Arabia is a vital part of Pakistan's foreign diplomacy no doubt but with the advent of the Yemen crisis i firmly believe that my country has started to show it's maturity... i hope we have your vote of confidence now as IP means a lot for Pakistanis and Pakistan's economy, as far as US is concerned i have my middle finger ready any day any time...

Let us take this relationship in a new direction much needed by both and region itself...

It will be, whatever else happens, there will be a time where our relations with Afghanistan and Iran will become far better than they are now and ever were.
They must...
 
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All in all , believe me we want the best for you .

not just as a neighbor but as a muslim neighbor who shares it's history with your people , we love you and we want the best for you .

i only wish what you say is right .

Think about the visceral hate between Shias and Sunnis in Middle East. That hate does not exist in Pakistan, at all. You will be surprised at what I said.

In the Middle East, the sectarian hatred was instituted by regimes there. In Iraq, Saddam being sunni, gave all important posts to sunnis only. The majority shia rightly felt being discriminated. In Syria, the minority shia rules and gives all important positions in power structure to shias. The majority sunni there feels discriminated.

In Pakistan there is no institutionalized discrimination between sects. Hence there are only a handful of terrorists attacking shia masjid or vice versa. But as a result of this terror, the sectarian communities have never confronted each other.

I have given this personal example several times. I m a sunni and was taught in a shia school from grade 1 to 10.

To me at least, this sectarian strife began when Iran went into isolation 35 years ago, or forced into it. Then, the powerful arab regimes found it expedient to force upon us a certain brand of sectarian indoctrination to increase their influence. With Iran coming out of the isolation, I see that indoctrination and regime of confrontation receding. I wish time proves me correct.
 
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all death cults that have made their name across the globe belong to one ideology and one faith only and unfortunately its the takfiri ideology that stems from wahabism. this is why these organisations are directly or indirectly supported to cause chaos in the middle east and beyond.
their most recent and most vile incarnation being the Daesh. hopefully our political leadership will show some more spine to deal with it otherwise all perceived benefits from this US-Iran deal will be lost in blood and tears of our people/

we have no choice! Must take daesh threat extremely seriously and that's why we need to work with the afghan govt. and our old established contacts there to ensure it doesnt spread this way

daesh have nothing to offer except backwards-ness and destruction. Daesh should be a thing to unite Muslims of all sects as they will spare nobody

I am not defending Saudia here budd
I am talking about who better to protect Pakistan's interest in the past.

Saudi is a time tested friend and Iran was the first country to recognize Pakistan's independence from british. Both should be friendly and we must use our efforts to unite Saudi and KSA and end their age-old beef with eachother the same way we helped establish contact between China and USA during cold war/nixon era
 
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So, my dear Pakistanis, I'll get down to the nuts and bolts, without any introduction.

As you all know, after the nuclear deal (let's assume it materializes without any problems and that a next hawkish U.S president won't sabotage it which is unlikely), any obstacle in the way of Iran and Pakistan improving their economic relations will be removed, most importantly, the long awaited, and long delayed IP pipeline.

But the pipeline is only a part of the game, and there is a much broader scope and much more potential in economic relations: Given that Pakistan's Arab allies don't sabotage a pipeline or 'punish' Pakistan for cooperating with Iran, obviously, without any long term alternative for energy hungry Pakistan, let's imagine this pipeline is completed. There is tremendous potential in Iran's Sistan and Baluchestan province and Pakistan's Baluchestan. With Gwadar and Chabahar development speeding up, the whole area can witness huge economic boom, and in an ideal world, Gwadar and Chabahar Twin Ports, can make Dubai look like a walk in a park, considering their much much more strategic location compared to Dubai, which is what it is, simply because there was no serious rivalry, and of course, huge foreign investment.

Let's not consider these 2 ports as rivals for a second, but an opportunity, to develop an already underdeveloped region and to make up for at least some of the suffering that people in this region have gone through in decades.

I understand some Pakistanis may have some reservations about India using the port, but let's see, for once, the brighter side of the story, without any conspiracy theories, like, India wants to attack Pakistan from this port, wants to conquer Pakistan's Baluchestan, etc. Let's simply see it, as an opportunity, for developing India, who wants to increase its economic interest in Central Asia, like every other country. You know, this port is more important for Iran itself, than it is, for India, since it is our only oceanic port, and it can become the 'Shanghai of Iran'. So even if there is any truth to those conspiracies (which is very unlikely), Iran will never allow that to happen, since it will directly harm our interests, before it harms Pakistan.

Of course, this port will not be 'exclusively' used by India, there is much more than that. The whole Pakistani-Indian standoff over the Kashmir issue can be left behind the doors, in this very specific case, because this is a game that can have no losers, but all winners: Iran, Pakistan, India, China (and in the future, perhaps, the whole world).

IP pipeline is not the whole potential, but it can be a foundation, on which we can start building more and more. The most important requirement, is the political resolve by Indian and Pakistani officials, they should decide whether they want to chase each other and harm each other for eternity, or at least, in a very rare but positive move, they can both be winners.


Now putting India aside, Iran and Pakistan, among 2 most powerful Muslim countries, not only militarily, but most importantly, in terms of human resources and 'brains', which is the most influential factor, in development of a nation, can go much further than this state of relations, which is unfortunately, even behind the normal situation.

There is a very important factor: Unlike many countries in ME, Iran and Pakistan do not have any unsolvable issues, like border disputes, or ethnic and racial tensions, etc. Needless to say, we have had thousands of years of historical relations with each other, and we are from the same culture, and have been parts of the same empires for hundreds of years. Just look at Urdu language as an example and its proximity to Persian, nothing like this happens unless there is very strong shared history. The most detrimental force that is holding back Iran and Pakistan, ironically, are bunch of barefoot, foreign supported terrorists that are harming both countries, not just one. And this is absolutely nothing that can not be dealt with, it requires 2 things:

1- Cutting the sources of funds and arms, wherever they are coming from, which we all know somehow, and having a broad cooperation in countering terror activities. I know this has not happened yet, but maybe, the need for development of the area, can leave us with no other choice to cooperate in terms of military, joint operations and intelligence sharing. I know some bitter things have happened between us, but both sides are to blame, if we set aside our nationalistic stances for a moment.

2- I believe in the theory that says (my own theory :P), where the prosperity (development, investment and strong economic atmosphere) comes from a door, backwardness and terrorism will go out from the other.

Now take note that, both of the above factors, at the same time, are needed to solve the issue and only one approach doesn't work.

Iran can ensure energy security for Western and southwestern areas of Pakistan. One of the main obstacles for Pakistan in the path of development, is energy shortages, so, as a short term or maybe middle term solution, we can greatly help Pakistan in this area.

The economic relations between the countries sees a huge potential ahead, the most important factor is, we are neighbors, and before that, we are brothers from the same culture,history, linguistics and values. There was never a Sunni-Shia tension in Iran-Pakistan relations (we were the first to recognize Pakistan as a sovereign nation) and the whole terrorism we are seeing today in Pakistan and in Baluchistan, is from a virus that was brought to Pakistan from outside. Of course Pakistani previous leaders are greatly at fault. Had they only 1/10th of the truly beloved and great leader, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in them, Pakistan would never be like this today. But it is nothing that can not be vaccinated, this virus can be eliminated, as soon as you 'decide' to completely eradicate the sources of infection in your country, those who are preaching nothing but hate and intolerance.

Neither Iran nor Pakistan deserve the current status quo, no matter how much mistakes we have had in the past. There are also long term opportunities (which can become a short term one if there is the will) that I didn't explain, like free trade agreements, joint free trade zones in Chabahar-Gwadar (Chabahar is already a free trade zone in Iran), an ecomoic corridor between Pakistan-Iran-Turkey, defense cooperation, joint military drills, and many other things.
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At the end, I ask Pakistani members (and also Iranians) to share their opinions and analysis about the future of Iran-Pakistan relations, in the post sanctions era.

@Irfan Baloch @Horus @Jungibaaz @WebMaster @Oscar @waz @Atanz @haviZsultan @beast89 @HAIDER @farhan_9909 @Desert Fox @DESERT FIGHTER @Peaceful Civilian @Jaanbaz @Ghareeb_Da_Baal @RAMPAGE @pakdefender @cb4 @Kharral @Donatello @Arsalan @WAJsal @Metanoia @LoveIcon
@Daneshmand @haman10 @rahi2357 @The SiLent crY @scythian500 @Arminkh

And any other whom I may have forgot.
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Please keep the thread clean from any hate contest or a troll war and let's share our disagreements in a civilized manner.

Brother, we want Iran to join CPEC and it will be a great benefit to Iran and it will connect Iran to China and Russia.
 
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