Interesting article about Kargil

[con]

I think most of you people don’t know the terrain of the area. At least my Indian friends don’t know and why should they know it’s not their country.

The possibility that a small unit can take on a much larger unit in area around Kargil, Ladakh, Liah and Drass Batalik area is not unusual. The unit that holds high grounds and has plenty of food and ammunition can do so for a quite some time. These area are extremely rough and vehicular movement, APC or tank movement is not easy and in some cases not possible. Therefore to dislodge enemy you have to move in physically and in this environment the side moving from lower position to higher position usually suffer most.

Remember Indians used all they had to dislodge what a few thousand fighters or soldiers call them whatever. Indians used their state of the art artillery systems, air force and elite commando units for a few thousand of these fighters when they had more than half million soldiers in occupied Kashmir.

Do remember this is not an ordinary battleground numbers don’t matter strategy and bold implementation of the strategy is what matters. In the case of Kargil India failed to detect an intrusion into its occupied territory and Pakistan effectively used the strategy they had planned and implemented it with perfection.

So care to tell what was the objective of the plan? Why was PAF not involved? Had Mush and his buddies planned to handle Indian counter attack all among themselves? 4 chaps against a million men.Now just a think more and you will understand how stupid the plan was.
Mush wasted the lifes of hundreds of his men just to fulfill his fantasies by starting an unwanted war.

 

[ejaz007]

It is difficult for me to tell what was the plan. One possibility could be that Pakistan wanted to bring the issue to limelight of international community. If this was indeed the plan then I would say they succeeded to some extent. The so-called peace process started because of this incident.

Other possibility could be that Pakistan wanted control of some high points. There are some reports unconfirmed though that not all posts occupied by fighters were vacated. If these reports are true than again they succeeded.

As far as PAF not being used is concerned I think it was the last resort option. Why because once you start fighting at all fronts i.e. land, air, sea then reversing the situation sometimes becomes difficult and the end result is a war, which perhaps neither side wanted. Even IAF remained on their own side of LOC perhaps because of the same thinking.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is difficult for me to tell what was the plan. One possibility could be that Pakistan wanted to bring the issue to limelight of international community. If this was indeed the plan then I would say they succeeded to some extent. The so-called peace process started because of this incident.

One does not start a war which can spin out of control, just for internationalising an issue.

It is only a side effect.

Other possibility could be that Pakistan wanted control of some high points. There are some reports unconfirmed though that not all posts occupied by fighters were vacated. If these reports are true than again they succeeded.

All area occupied were vacated.

As far as PAF not being used is concerned I think it was the last resort option. Why because once you start fighting at all fronts i.e. land, air, sea then reversing the situation sometimes becomes difficult and the end result is a war, which perhaps neither side wanted. Even IAF remained on their own side of LOC perhaps because of the same thinking.

I cannot comment why the PAF was not used.

IAF was not used nor were troops allowed across the LC because war not the intention of India. Vacating the posts was.

 

[salman nedian]

Stop your generals and politicians from fighting with each other and then think about capturing srinagar.

I think it is a good advice to capture Srinagar

Thanks mate.

we will work on it to get the ultimate result.

 

[ejaz007]

IAF was indeed used and two IAF fighters were shot down by ground defenses on Pakistani side of LOC. One was a Mig-21 and the other a Mig-27.

 

[salman nedian]

I remember i saw Indian POWs on TV crying that their captain ran away leaving them.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I remember i saw Indian POWs on TV crying that their captain ran away leaving them.

Good for you.

I could also give actual anecdotes, but then that is not the aim.

 

[ejaz007]

As far as Indian army not allowed to cross LOC is concerned this story tells differently. I think Indian army like almost all other armies does a lot of thinks on its own without political leadership knowing much. I guess military is military no matter to which country it belongs .

http://www.indianexpress.com/india-news/ie/daily/20000820/ina20039.html

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Indian Army was not allowed to cross the LC.

Had it been allowed then the other divisions in Kashmir in addition to those involved would not be sitting on its haunches.

In war, there is always patrolling done, by both sides. Members of these patrols are open to being captured/ ambushed.

It should not be forgotten that Pakistan had intruded and so to find out where they were patrolling was essential and within the Indian territory. Therefore, getting ambushed and captured is not totally unlikely.


One must understand the mechanics of warfare to understand issues.

 

[Ahassan]

at the end pakistan ZINDABAD.......
PAK FAUJ ZINDABAD.........

 

[niaz]

I have read the posts in this thread with great interest. What I find strange is that most posts are not related to the real issue.

The episode is now almost 10 years old. Here are the facts:

Pakistan tried to play Siachin in reverse on India. Just as India has taken over Siachin when no one was looking; Pakistan attempted to do the same with Kargil. The adventure however backfired. Why??

1.There is little doubt that India has vastly superior conventional forces. And following the UK example of Falklands, India decided to recapture the heights regardless of the cost.

2. Pakistan neither had the will nor the resources to fight a long drawn out battle with India. It is correct that NLI fought extremely well and with active support from the army, it would have been extremely difficult for the Indians to dislodge them.

However, there was every likelihood that if IA failed to capture to heights, an attack across the international boundry would follow ( just as India attacked Lahore when fall of Aknoor was imminent in 1965). This would have resulted in an all out war escalating into nuclear exchange.

3. All the international community was against Pakistan because it was obvius that Pakistan was lying when she calimed that only mujahideen were invoved. Pakistan was therefore isolated.

4. One would expect that in the time of adversity, Pakistani nation would unite. How could it happen when Pakistan's own Prime Minister; yes everyone's favourite Nwaz Sharif tried to distance himself and portrayed his own army as rougue army! How can one expect any adventure to succeed under such circumstances.

5. Pakistan's biggest mandate Prime Minister went begging to Clinton to bail him out.

I have repeated wellknown facts to emphasize that does it matter if an Indian Captain ran away or two IAF planes were shot down?? End result was a shameful unconditional withdrawl from the heights. Sheikh Saadi has said:

Chira karey kunad aaqil keh baad ayed pashaimani.

Meaning why do a thing which you regret afterwards. IMO Kargil episode was a disaster for Pakistan, no matter which way you look at it; sooner or later the real culprits of this comedy of error would be exposed and dealt with in the way they deserve.

 

[Vinod2070]

IMO Kargil episode was a disaster for Pakistan, no matter which way you look at it; sooner or later the real culprits of this comedy of error would be exposed and dealt with in the way they deserve

Spot on. Disaster for Pakistan. Unnecessary waste of precious lives of very fine soldiers on both sides. All to massage the inflated ego of one man.

 

[ahussains]

This is our mistake we put US in we have to handle with our self and we always lose on the dialogue table as we also done many times in the past the decision was right (in my opinion )to reclaim the heights and the path to KASHMIRE ...

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Its ironical how some bunch of indians with facts of anti pakistan propaganda media are trying to prove that somehow they won the war at kargil...

Far from being true... This single war could have changed the face of territorial boundries between pakistan and India...

As always it was people from within who played the role under US pressure not to persue this dangerous game which could have become an all out war which India was in no way able to fight at that time...

Facts ... Of indian side and anti pakistan media of international origin.... Some people just have their eyes glued shut to the truth that India got blessing in disguise within PM Nawaz and US.

 

[Vinod2070]

Well, if some people still believe that there is a military solution to Kashmir problem, they are welcome to think so. I guess most people in both countries are now kind of "been there, done that and learned better".

I would rather believe official comments from both political and military leadership of Pakistan that it has been realized that there is no military solution. Once it has been internalized, it is leading to change in policies which is again in evidence on both sides. We may not be great friends, but the right policy would be "live and let live". In the nuclear context, it does seem irresponsible to talk about boarder changes by force.