Intelligence Report: "My Stand is with Pakistan"

[macnurv]

I am not buying a single word of Irfans statement. Are our intel agencies so oblivious or stupid that they dont understand the implications of Pakistani nationals fighting overseas in conflicts that have nothing to do with us or our national interest? Had they not learned anything from the debacle of Afghan Jihad and how we did not move fast enough to control such elements.

These fighters not only are battle hardened but would be ideologically driven to attain their objectives. Kindly tell your sources to stop being so condescending towards the legitimate concerns of citizens regarding Iran and role of our citizens. Come down hard on each and everyone who is helping Iranians in recruitment of our citizens. Dont show a pinch of mercy to these people, it seems they havent learned anything over the past 20 years.

My country, my people and my family had paid in blood for wars that were not ours, dont repeat the same mistake.

 

[HAIDER]

I don't need to know your personal stories or relations brother but I am stating you the reality that numbers of Shia going for pilgrimages to Iraq and Iran got training from there and ready to fight U.S and its allies ...Don't forget that we where U.S allies more than once and probably in future too because its suits our interests / economy.

I recommend travel once to those holy places and do research. It is very easy to generalize and give statement. No one there ask for you sect, take camera and bring back the picture of training camp. Karbala, Najaf, Kuufa or Samara is open for everyone. Please visit and find the camps.

 

[Maarkhoor]

I recommend travel once to those holy places and do research. It is very easy to generalize and give statement. No one there ask for you sect, take camera and bring back the picture of training camp. Karbala, Najaf, Kuufa or Samara is open for everyone. Please visit and find the camps.

Lots of people from Para Chinar and other places went there and join Lewa Zainabiyooon.

 

[HAIDER]

strange that our shia Pakistanis didnt join the discussion i feel bad that we are judging them and giving verdict about their loyalty based on our paranoia or half baked or malicious disinformation that is used to cause violence in Pakistan

Sir , there lobby is very strong. Pakistani shia has only one way ... stay silent or leave the country. I personally seen lots of atrocities with my own eyes. My family first victim was at Karachi Imambargh in PECHS. Where people came in shouting " shia kafir " and " kill them all" with shower bullets on Namazi and left without any worry , all dead and was pool of blood inside mosque. As of today , no one ever arrest or anything happened against those killer, whole case went to cold storage. And then this chain of killing went non stop. Emergence of new killing spree of Quetta Hazara , they got killed and later Australian and Canadian govt provide them refugee status. I really failed to understand after so much atrocities against Shia , what these people want. Non Shia ever raise the arms or anti Pakistan slogan.
But,I would say Pakistan army and our Sunni brothers get victim of this constant suicide bombing and attack on mosque too. Now certain groups has build a typical mindset/narrative to blame India,Afghanistan,Iran or Israel or US for all this problem. In reality all these extremist element living in our society and they still preaching hate. But no one dare to point the real source of this hate.
So, it kinda useless for Pakistani shia to come forward and give anything in there defence. Majority of this country are Sunni, let them handle the way they want it. That's all I can say. But Pakistan is my country and I won't let it fall at any cost.

"sectarian violence is from February 1995. At the Mehfil-e-Murtaza Imambargah in Karachi, 16 people had been lined up and shot dead as they were preparing for a funeral. Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen had stormed in and killed them point blank."

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

strange that our shia Pakistanis didnt join the discussion i feel bad that we are judging them and giving verdict about their loyalty based on our paranoia or half baked or malicious disinformation that is used to cause violence in Pakistan

To be clear, I think a discussion on Iran’s negative role in Pakistan and the region is completely justified and should occur, but in any discussion your going to have people arguing for and against the topic. The problem arises when people start accusing a whole demographic group. Using the example of a few Shia being recruited by Iran for conflicts abroad should not be used to tarnish the entire group, nor should the Shia (or Sunni or an community) be asked to ‘prove’ their patriotism as a group.

Most people are busy dealing with everyday issues and don’t care about these kinds of detailed discussions. Their views are mostly formed by what’s in the media and what they hear from family, friends and acquaintances. The media has carried a lot of criticism of Saudi Arabia because of their funding for madrassas that are perceived to have spawned the groups carrying out terrorist attacks in Pakistan, but criticism of Iran has been mute because the groups they fund haven’t tracked the State nearly as much.

And what U.S and other countries did when these scums return back?

We should do the same...

I don’t know if we had laws to punish people or going abroad and fighting. My guess is that the State and military already have their hands full fighting the existing groups, dealing with the Kashmir focused groups and the BLA etc. They don’t want to open another front yet.

 

[HAIDER]

Lots of people from Para Chinar and other places went there and join Lewa Zainabiyooon.

Again ...lots of people !!! .. it doesn't prove anything. Here we are talking about the way 70,000 killed and still our officers are dying in FATA and thousands of injured which killed by our own religious extremist element. Not Shia or Sunni moderates. Few days ago another suicide bombing in Quetta to target DSP. Because DSP was carrying operation against extremist elements and lost his life with many others. These people are locals not some came from other country to do this job.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Condemnation needs to come from the State based on evidence first. Why expect the Shia to take a position that the State & military do not support?

You should stop condemning the GCC, the wahabi lot , going by your own argument. State label them as our "brothers". Wait till state "officially" recognize them as our geopolitical adversaries. What say you?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You should stop condemning the GCC, the wahabi lot , going by your own argument. State label them as our "brothers". Wait till state "officially" recognize them as our geopolitical adversaries. What say you?

My only condemnation of the GCC has been over their statements against Pakistan (specifically the UAE), and I’ve criticized Iran for the same and gotten into arguments with Iranians on this forum when they’ve blamed Pakistan for attacks in Iran.

I might not be recollecting correctly but I don’t typically criticize the GCC - they remain important partners for Pakistan. I have issues with madrasaa funding but in my view that responsibility, to reform madrasaas and have accountability for funds coming in (from both Iran and GCC) lies with the GOP.

Lots of people from Para Chinar and other places went there and join Lewa Zainabiyooon.

How many is ‘lots of people’? Lots of people also went to Afghanistan to wage Jihad and fight with the Afghan Taliban. Are all those people going to be punished as well? You’re never going to have a perfect society.

So don’t blame the entire group.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

in west the patriotism towards host country and condemnation of terrorism is demanded of entire muslim comunity in social media and main stream media by politicians and opinion makers

as if everyone regardless of age or gender must explain himself for the act to which he or she had no say or role

which causes a lot of resentment snd pushback

i see same tendency being drummed by dome dim witted or malicious openion makers in media in Pakistan

Sir , there lobby is very strong. Pakistani shia has only one way ... stay silent or leave the country. I personally seen lots of atrocities with my own eyes. My family first victim was at Karachi Imambargh in PECHS. Where people came in shouting " shia kafir " and " kill them all" with shower bullets on Namazi and left without any worry , all dead and was pool of blood inside mosque. As of today , no one ever arrest or anything happened against those killer, whole case went to cold storage. And then this chain of killing went non stop. Emergence of new killing spree of Quetta Hazara , they got killed and later Australian and Canadian govt provide them refugee status. I really failed to understand after so much atrocities against Shia , what
"sectarian violence is from February 1995. At the Mehfil-e-Murtaza Imambargah in Karachi, 16 people had been lined up and shot dead as they were preparing for a funeral. Sipah-e-Sahaba gunmen had stormed in and killed them point blank."

may their souls rest in peace

 

[HAIDER]

in west the patriotism towards host country and condemnation of terrorism is demanded of entire muslim comunity in socisl media and main stream media by politicians and opinion makers

as if everyone regardless of age or gender must explain himself for the act to which he or she had no say or role

which causes a lot of resentment snd pushback

i see same tendency being drummed by dome dim witted or malicious openion makers in media in Pakistan


may their souls rest in peace

We have lots of media junky/anchor/analyst , those who one night claimed Pakistan army arrested Isreali airforce pilot at LOC on 27Feb and later failed to defend the story and people follow such people. Imagine if that is the criteria of the nation then what will be the outcome.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

My only condemnation of the GCC has been over their statements against Pakistan (specifically the UAE), and I’ve criticized Iran for the same and gotten into arguments with Iranians on this forum when they’ve blamed Pakistan for attacks in Iran.

I might not be recollecting correctly but I don’t typically criticize the GCC - they remain important partners for Pakistan. I have issues with madrasaa funding but in my view that responsibility, to reform madrasaas and have accountability for funds coming in (from both Iran and GCC) lies with the GOP.

Fair enough, but would the majority of Shias will hold the same view and call out the house of saud and Wahabi lot before state "officially" recognise these entities as Pakistan's adversaries? We all know what majority of Shias think of House of Saud and Wahabi lot.

As I Sunni, I am not waiting for state to recognise the behaviour of UAE and its opposition to the gawadar, Qatar providing support to our corrupt politicians, Saudi arm twisting my state to get into things that we don't want and they being the custodian of petrodollar, the worst form of slavery to mankind and Pakistan in particular etc etc. It will be mockery of my wisdom if I don't call spade a spade.

Statecraft do not work like you are hoping or wishing it for. Its rather a wishful thinking or dear I say, an excuse.

 

[HAIDER]

Fair enough, but would the majority of Shias will hold the same view and call out the house of saud and Wahabi lot before state "officially" recognise these entities as Pakistan's adversaries? We all know what majority of Shias think of House of Saud and Wahabi lot.

As I Sunni, I am not waiting for state to recognise the behaviour of UAE and its opposition to the gawadar, Qatar providing support to our corrupt politicians, Saudi arm twisting my state to get into things that we don't want and they being the custodian of petrodollar, the worst form of slavery to mankind and Pakistan in particular etc etc. It will be mockery of my wisdom if I don't call spade a spade.

Statecraft do not work like you are hoping or wishing it for. Its rather a wishful thinking or dear I say, an excuse.

Have hopes from MBS, who is not towing the old state policy and wanting to bring social changes. But, " others war" has ruined our national fabric and peace in the country. And we all know well , but kept on deny.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Fair enough, but would the majority of Shias will hold the same view and call out the house of saud and Wahabi lot before state "officially" recognise these entities as Pakistan's adversaries? We all know what majority of Shias think of House of Saud and Wahabi lot.

As I Sunni, I am not waiting for state to recognise the behaviour of UAE and its opposition to the gawadar, Qatar providing support to our corrupt politicians, Saudi arm twisting my state to get into things that we don't want and they being the custodian of petrodollar, the worst form of slavery to mankind and Pakistan in particular etc etc. It will be mockery of my wisdom if I don't call spade a spade.

Statecraft do not work like you are hoping or wishing it for. Its rather a wishful thinking or dear I say, an excuse.

We might have a different approach ... I don’t blame foreign powers for influencing or trying to influence our country - we would so the same if we had the opportunity. What we need to do is strengthen our institutions so that they can hold our politicians, bureaucrats and military officials accountable. Same with things like Madrassa funding or militias - the State should have a monopoly on violence.

We need to have accountability for funds coming into the country (which is why I think FATF conditions are a good thing). We simply don’t have the leverage with either GCC or Iran to force them to stop their meddling in Pakistan, so we have to implement domestic controls.

 

[HAIDER]

We might have a different approach ... I don’t blame foreign powers for influencing or trying to influence our country - we would so the same if we had the opportunity. What we need to do is strengthen our institutions so that they can hold our politicians, bureaucrats and military officials accountable. Same with things like Madrassa funding or militias - the State should have a monopoly on violence.

We need to have accountability for funds coming into the country (which is why I think FATF conditions are a good thing). We simply don’t have the leverage with either GCC or Iran to force them to stop their meddling in Pakistan, so we have to implement domestic controls.

It is fact FATF is blessing for Pakistan. People will realize later. A best thing for Pakistan economy and money laundering.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

We might have a different approach ... I don’t blame foreign powers for influencing or trying to influence our country - we would so the same if we had the opportunity. What we need to do is strengthen our institutions so that they can hold our politicians, bureaucrats and military officials accountable. Same with things like Madrassa funding or militias - the State should have a monopoly on violence.

We need to have accountability for funds coming into the country (which is why I think FATF conditions are a good thing). We simply don’t have the leverage with either GCC or Iran to force them to stop their meddling in Pakistan, so we have to implement domestic controls.

Precisely!

And that bold part. Allow me to add one more thing. The education. Citizens needs to be educated about what is actually going on around them. State cannot do everything no its own. Citizens needs to take some responsibility as well. would it not be nice if learned shias start to educate those who are not so clued up on the geopolitics, Iranian role in Pakistan, not just GCC and Wahabi lot, and explain to them as to what is going around? This issue needs to be raised from within Shias as it will only then have an effect. Me or someone else pointing to these rather ugly realities of geopolitics will fall on deaf ears.

its not much to ask, is it??

Have hopes from MBS, who is not towing the old state policy and wanting to bring social changes. But, " others war" has ruined our national fabric and peace in the country. And we all know well , but kept on deny.

He is just a rebranding of House of Saud. Nothing more nothing less. I have my view on them, people might disagree, they have to fall for Mahdi to come, there are clear Hadees on this matter. But again the topic under discussion will go in tangent.