Intelligence Report: "My Stand is with Pakistan"

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Can you point me towards the urgency shown by the Pakistani government in this regard? This did not happen overnight and has been going on for best part of a decade and it was not me who did a press conference admitting that previously there has been a bias.

Apples and oranges again ... you said that the Pakistani government treats some groups differently from others. I asked you for examples (aside from the Kashmir focused groups). I made no comment about 'urgency by the Pakistan government' - I asked YOU a question regarding your claim about preferential treatment for some groups vs others.

Religion's role in this is highly exaggerated. Most of the recruits as i said are from a region in Pakistan known to have tribal problems with their neighbours and are directly bring Afghan problems to homeland.

There are political and racial reasons for recruit and not solely religious.

Most of the recruits for the TTP might be from the Tribal areas, but they also had a significant number of Punjabi recruits, to the point where the term 'Punjabi Taliban' was coined.

AQ & Daesh have recruited from various ethnic groups as well.

 

[El Sidd]

Apples and oranges again ... you said that the Pakistani government treats some groups differently from others. I asked you for examples (aside from the Kashmir focused groups). I made no comment about 'urgency by the Pakistan government' - I asked YOU a question regarding your claim about preferential treatment for some groups vs others.

And i ask you to read intelligence reports from the past decade. not these secret meeting in Karachi reports but actual reports which charts out the Indian Cold Start Doctrine of a 2.5 front war.
Just recently as last year recruits who had returned from Syria were arrested and the State had to deal with blackmail and eventually had to let them go.
There is a distinct lack of progress against them and the closeness of Sindh government with Iran creates a stumble block for any significant action drawn to counter the phenomenon.

Most of the recruits for the TTP might be from the Tribal areas, but they also had a significant number of Punjabi recruits, to the point where the term 'Punjabi Taliban' was coined.

The key word here of use is 'coined'. You can coin and mint anything you like if you have the motivation for it.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Listen bro. Had you heard what I heard during the first days of first gulf war, you would have said exactly what I have said.

Unfortunately i don’t remember exactly when I heard it, but it was at at 6pm or 6.30pm.

I was used to listen Radio Orient news in french (Arabic Radio broadcasted from Paris) and Radio Judaïque (french Jewish radio also broadcasted from Paris) but which was used to broadcast live at 6.00pm or 6.30pm news in french from Radio Khôl which is military radio broadcasting from Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

It was an interview of a former Mossad officer who said that he worked in Lebanon in the 70’s. What he said me made my blood cold or boiling (don’t know how to say it in english).

He was saying that he and its team committed attacks on Shias and planted evidences in such way that they (shia community) will believe that the attacks was done by Sunnis. Few days later the Mossad commandos killed Sunnis members and had planted evidences in such manner that everyone will believe that the attack was done by Shias.

Do I need to explain what happened to Lebanon ?

Even if religion is not problem for you or me or state, the risk always exists. Just have a look few posts of last few days. Hate against urdu speaking, hate against what not. Hate is among us. And enemies know it.

US did the same to Iraq to begin sectarian civil war, they closed off Samarra, planted explosives, and destroyed the Shia masjid there to ignite it.

Once the back and forth started, it took a life of it's own and resulted in much suffering on all sides. Mostly it broke the back Arab Sunnis completely and put Radical Shia militias in power.

Today ironically the radical Shia militias of Iraq are turning on Iran for the sake of US, spouting Arab ethnic slogans and racism against Persians.

Make no mistake, US is a major player in and source of these sectarian wars.

 

[Vortex]

US did the same to Iraq to begin sectarian civil war, they closed off Samarra, planted explosives, and destroyed the Shia masjid there to ignite it.

Once the back and forth started, it took a life of it's own and resulted in much suffering on all sides. Mostly it broke the back Arab Sunnis completely and put Radical Shia militias in power.

Today ironically the radical Shia militias of Iraq are turning on Iran for the sake of US, spouting Arab ethnic slogans and racism against Persians.

Make no mistake, US is a major player in and source of these sectarian wars.

I stated the interview of the Mossad agent for an example about what was done. That was the main point, not who did. And of course anybody could do the same.

 

[MastanKhan]

MK,

While I agree with your broader point, given the bloodbath Yemen has turned out to be, with even the UAE pulling out, don't you think we saved a lot of lives (of Pakistani soldiers) by not getting involved?

You're correct - in the Shia case, there have been limited to zero attacks by these militant organizations on Pakistani soil against the Pakistani State, whereas in the Sunni case, we have suffered over a decade of bloodshed and violence against the Pakistani State, tens of thousands of civilians and soldiers killed, tens of billions of dollars in losses.

No comparison at all.

Yet it is the Pakistani Shia who have their loyalty questioned.

I would have sacrifice Many more to have positioned myself in GCC.

you cannot out a number fir what we were getting.

this was coming with the blessings of the super powers and gcc leaders.

this was a once in 100-200-500 years event.

you cannot put a price tag of lives on something that would have influenced the geography if the muslim world

Listen bro. Had you heard what I heard during the first days of first gulf war, you would have said exactly what I have said.

Unfortunately i don’t remember exactly when I heard it, but it was at at 6pm or 6.30pm.

I was used to listen Radio Orient news in french (Arabic Radio broadcasted from Paris) and Radio Judaïque (french Jewish radio also broadcasted from Paris) but which was used to broadcast live at 6.00pm or 6.30pm news in french from Radio Khôl which is military radio broadcasting from Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

It was an interview of a former Mossad officer who said that he worked in Lebanon in the 70’s. What he said me made my blood cold or boiling (don’t know how to say it in english).

He was saying that he and its team committed attacks on Shias and planted evidences in such way that they (shia community) will believe that the attacks was done by Sunnis. Few days later the Mossad commandos killed Sunnis members and had planted evidences in such manner that everyone will believe that the attack was done by Shias.

Do I need to explain what happened to Lebanon ?

Even if religion is not problem for you or me or state, the risk always exists. Just have a look few posts of last few days. Hate against urdu speaking, hate against what not. Hate is among us. And enemies know it.

Hate is a reality. Understand it and learn to work with it—-that is the only solution.

as for you learning what yisraelis did—-that should not be a surprise.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And i ask you to read intelligence reports from the past decade. not these secret meeting in Karachi reports but actual reports which charts out the Indian Cold Start Doctrine of a 2.5 front war.
Just recently as last year recruits who had returned from Syria were arrested and the State had to deal with blackmail and eventually had to let them go.
There is a distinct lack of progress against them and the closeness of Sindh government with Iran creates a stumble block for any significant action drawn to counter the phenomenon.

I'm not privy to intelligence reports. You'll have to provide links to sources etc implicating Iran in large scale terrorism in Pakistan.

The key word here of use is 'coined'. You can coin and mint anything you like if you have the motivation for it.

The term was 'coined' because there were a large number of militants from Punjab as well. The point is that recruitment for militant groups occurs from all over the country.

 

[Vortex]

I would have sacrifice Many more to have positioned myself in GCC.

you cannot out a number fir what we were getting.

this was coming with the blessings of the super powers and gcc leaders.

this was a once in 100-200-500 years event.

you cannot put a price tag of lives on something that would have influenced the geography if the muslim world



Hate is a reality. Understand it and learn to work with it—-that is the only solution.

as for you learning what yisraelis did—-that should not be a surprise.

Saddam Hussein also invaded Koweït with the blessing of big powers.


And especially if it was with big powers’ blessings then be sure there is nefarious plan behind it.


The hates are here no doubt. But I remember there was a map showing a broken Pakistan, hybrids wars going against us, I remember what hate made in Rwanda in the 90’s, etc... yes sure Muslim world would have been reshaped but where would our Pakistan ?


By the way would you have same approach about sacrificing if you were in Pakistan instead of being in USA ?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Shia militias, whenever they existed, have never gone to war with the State of Pakistan. Even after their organisations were disbanded and militants put to death. But on the other hand, Sunni militias eventually went to war with out state and this was the longest war we fought, and still continue to fight in some zones.

TTP were puppets of foreign powers, notably US, India, and NDS. They were not necessarily Sunni. LeJ has support among N league, notably Rana Sanaullah.

Shia radical groups have caused harm in Pakistan before as well, there have been pretty vicious riots which have been hushed and controlled by our security forces. Targeted assassination attempt of Mufti Taqi Usmani is another important example.

When was the last time people said something like, "the Sunnis/Deobandis in Pakistan will side with Saudi Arabia if Saudi Arabia asks them"? Is there not a lot of respect for the Saudis in the Sunni community in Pakistan, just like there is a lot of respect for the Iranians in the Shia community?

You are mixed up. Those who are most likely to be pro-KSA are Ahle Hadees. They are kind of a more liberal Wahabbi sect. Due to KSA influence, they became more hardline.

Of Deobandis, there are many types, mostly they are in the middle and upper class of cities in Pakistan. They represent Sunni intelligentsia of the country.

Maulana Maududi was a Deobandi scholar and had a deep influence on Sunnis and Shias alike. He was an influence for not just Pakistan, but also Iran's Islamic revolution and Egypt's Sayyid Qutb.

Deobandis are actually closer to Shias of Iran than any other political group, as they want to emulate an Iranian style revolution in Pakistan.

You will find many Deobandis and their scholars idolizing Imam Khomeini for example.

They also tend to be fiercely nationalistic as they believe fervently in the Islamic cause for which Pakistan was founded, like for example Dr. Israr Ahmad, Maulana Tariq Jameel, Mufti Taqi Usmani.

As for Fazlu and JUIH types, they are Indian puppets. JI sadly ceased being an Islamic movement to become a partisan in parliamentary politics.

My two cents.

This whole issue and mutual frustrations are caused by one and only one source from both sides. It is the clergy.

It is these clergymen from both sides who corrupt the feeble minds at young age and mould their thinking in such a way that Arabs and Persians are taken as some sort of holly cows, depending on which sect one belong to. The reason, clergymen themselves are educated in Arab and Persian lands and under the influence of foreign agenda. This then trickle down to the rest. However, this "love" of Saudi Arabia among the Sunnis have gone down quite noticeably, specially in long chain of event that our nation suffered or made to suffer in post 9/11 and still continuing. However, on Shia side, in all honesty, there is still the soft corner for Iran. I have not come across any Shia I know, who publicly, curse Iran and what it has done in Muslim world, specially in ME.

Solution:

Cut that bloody umbilical cord which connects our clergy to Qom in Iran and similar institution in Saudi Arabia/GCC. We have got top notch Scholars from both schools of thoughts, we got home grown institutions, just consolidate them, build them into our own Qom and Similar Sunni seat of knowledge. There has to be one Imam, Pakistani Imam, and similar stature person from Sunni side. Their fatwas will be final, no ifs and buts. No foreign influence, everything home grown. Ofcourse it will require state to act and put a lot of money and resources in building such institution which can rival what Iran and Saudi Arabia got but the long term dividends are immense.

This is a very good idea, and one which I have been thinking about for a long time.

Make one Mufti e Azm for Sunnis like Mufti Taqi Usmani.

Make one Ayatollah of Pakistan, I wouldn't know who that would be.

Centralize and control the propagation of Islam in this country, cull all anti-Pakistan cults, make sectarianism punishments harsh, and promote Pakistani ideology from religious institutions.

We can go so far as reading the Khutbahs in the name of the Pakistani state and every citizen has to give bayah to the state. However for that, Pakistan must begin moves to introduce Fiqh laws and start jirga type religious courts with arbitration powers to concede demands of such religious groups.

But that said, the fact remains that the operations of Zainabeyoun has no DIRECT impact on Pakistan. These people are not setting off bombs in Pakistan or carrying out suicide attacks in Pakistan - that's what I mean by perceived negative domestic impact. You simply cannot compare the death and destruction wreaked INSIDE Pakistan by the TTP/ISIS/JuA etc with the Zainabeyoun.

Will we wait until these groups bring their sectarian violence home?

AQ and Daesh don't exist in Pakistan.

TTP/PTM and Jamat ul Ahrar are the same things and proxies of anti-Pakistan forces which include India.

We can make a case for LeJ and Sipah e Sahaba, but I don't know how active they are anymore. N league has sympathesizers to those groups in its top brass.

 

[Maarkhoor]

The term was 'coined' because there were a large number of militants from Punjab as well. The point is that recruitment for militant groups occurs from all over the country.

But no other country put a flag of militant Org along with their national military flags until unless they knew that this militant Org is total under their control and can wage war against even their home country.

Lewa Zaibiyouuuuun.......Why Iran put flag? because they knew militants from Pakistan will follow their supreme commander Aytullah.....

Hundreds of people going for ziarat actually to join Lewa Zanbyouuun to get trained for future....

Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain, etc etc they are citizens of their country but they did not hesitate to wage war against their own home country,,,,,,get my point....

 

[El Sidd]

The term was 'coined' because there were a large number of militants from Punjab as well. The point is that recruitment for militant groups occurs from all over the country.

Do you know the exact number of the recruits?

I'm not privy to intelligence reports. You'll have to provide links to sources etc implicating Iran in large scale terrorism in Pakistan.

Kulbhashan Yadev network has tentacles all across the country.

 

[MastanKhan]

Saddam Hussein also invaded Koweït with the blessing of big powers.


And especially if it was with big powers’ blessings then be sure there is nefarious plan behind it.


The hates are here no doubt. But I remember there was a map showing a broken Pakistan, hybrids wars going against us, I remember what hate made in Rwanda in the 90’s, etc... yes sure Muslim world would have been reshaped but where would our Pakistan ?


By the way would you have same approach about sacrificing if you were in Pakistan instead of being in USA ?

Hi,

About the last part—-Please try it—-it does not take a lot to talk intelligent

pakistan was not asked to invade gcc which was in a crisis.

kuwait did not have a crisis, there was peace in kuwait a minute before the invasion.

Iraq had a choice given to it to go back in a timely manner.

 

[BATMAN]

Just watch these two videos Below and dont bother with the rest of the Thread

You Ignored my Request. ok settle down, grab a drink or two because its a long one


Nothing has threatened and harmed us more than the scourge of TTP and its affiliates.

they tried breaking our will through their attacks on schools, shrines, markets and places of worship. they made videos of beheading of soldiers and civilians but we remained defiant and our resolve persevered.

today they are reduced to dust and their remnants are hiding like rats in Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Pakistan has a unique make-up of ethnicity and faith. predominantly Muslims we have the Most Sunnis after Malaysia and the most Shias after Iran and this unique combination has seen the tests of times right from the times of Zia's Islamization to fight the super powers proxy war in Afghanistan, Iran -Iraq war, our own war in tribal areas, Sawat and rest of Pakistan to war in Syria and Yemen.


where others failed, their armies disbanded, we rallied and we united. our country is represented by both faiths in politics, media, showbiz, philosophers, armed forces and sports. what was a weakness for countries like Syria and Iraq proved to be a unifying force instead just like Jinnah and Iqbal.


so my dears, current Iran and American conflict has no chance to disrupt our social, political or religious fabric. those that were all smug and full of themselves to turn our constitution square into Khooni chowk of Sawat are defeated.


dont exaggerate or panic over speeches of some shia clerics they are in no league of Abdul Aziz or red mosque or Sufi Mohammad of Sawat. they both ate dirt and licked their spits. And so will anyone else who will bring our country's security at risk.


our focus should remain on those who went to join Daesh but after its routing have returned back and have recently committed an atrocity in a Mosque in Quetta.



whats with the title you say?

its an extract from an intelligence report that has been purposefully shared with me knowing well that I am part of the team and constant poster on this forum and I knew what I was supposed to do


so this is about a very private shia gathering of elders in Karachi which had representation from other parts of the country there were opinion makers and community leaders with large following. the talk moved to possible involvement of Pakistan in Iran- American war through pressure from America and Saudis and what side the Pakistani shias must take and one gentleman declared that he will stand with Pakistan and to that there was a unanimous roar of Approval and Nara e Haideris.


its outcome has been corroborated multiple times at similar gatherings and gossips across the country despite few rants by some shia leaders who are on Iranian stipend just like their Deobandi counterparts who support their big bellies and lavish SUV's through Arabian stipends.

my footnote is. I hope Iran is not invaded because it is our brotherly neighbor and shares a relatively calm border and if the conflict does start then we cant remain neutral and we will have to take a side and that side should be with Pakistan. we must do and say what suits us best. if we keep worrying about Saudis, Americans and Iranians then we will only end up hurting ourselves and wont get any sympathy from them either.

BS questions and BS analysis. Right wrong of US, can never justify Iran firing missiles on Mecca. etc.
Iran is a terrorist state and must have been be striked down, long time ago. Non other than US have power to protect Iran.
On second thought, what's the back ground of this interviewer? Who gave him clearance to meet retired army officers and raise his personal concerns to rtd. Pak army officers?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Will we wait until these groups bring their sectarian violence home?

AQ and Daesh don't exist in Pakistan.

TTP/PTM and Jamat ul Ahrar are the same things and proxies of anti-Pakistan forces which include India.

We can make a case for LeJ and Sipah e Sahaba, but I don't know how active they are anymore. N league has sympathesizers to those groups in its top brass.

You're mixing up a lot of different conversations and different arguments being made. Please read the entirety of my comments in this thread. I specifically said that ANY Pakistanis joining militant movements fighting abroad or at home is a problem. Yes, those that fight abroad don't necessarily pose an immediate direct threat to Pakistan (assuming they are not fighting in organizations like AQ, Daesh etc that have a Pakistani presence and are fighting Pakistan), but they are still a problem because essentially there is a risk that these people will resort to crime and/or violence upon return because they have no jobs etc. and their main skills are now combat.

 

[StormBreaker]

You're mixing up a lot of different conversations and different arguments being made. Please read the entirety of my comments in this thread. I specifically said that ANY Pakistanis joining militant movements fighting abroad or at home is a problem. Yes, those that fight abroad don't necessarily pose an immediate direct threat to Pakistan (assuming they are not fighting in organizations like AQ, Daesh etc that have a Pakistani presence and are fighting Pakistan), but they are still a problem because essentially there is a risk that these people will resort to crime and/or violence upon return because they have no jobs etc. and their main skills are now combat.

Peaky blinders the prime example

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Right wrong of US, can never justify Iran firing missiles on Mecca

No rational Muslim or non-Muslim would support that. The Iranians, and many Americans, themselves called Trump's threat to bomb cultural sites a war crime if carried out. Bombing sites in Mecca would amount to much the same.