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Insight: Unable to copy it, China tries building own jet engine

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You know why the world is only talking about America, China and Russia's 5th gen but not yours right? and here you are, talking about 3rd gen which India is having great difficulty in producing. First learn to do something before pointing your fingers at your "adversary" :rolleyes:

WOW I asked you for a link and you came back with some dumb logic like world is talking about Chinese 5th gen planes. Chinese are best at propaganda (that is why they have propaganda department) churning out russian imitations and recently US imitations and some in west take up that propaganda for their own benefit that does not give credence to your imitations.

SO when did J10 pass spin recovery and wake penetration tests?? may be a min back when you were busy making a psed pic of J10 with recovery chute :P
 
WOW I asked you for a link and you came back with some dumb logic like world is talking about Chinese 5th gen planes. Chinese are best at propaganda (that is why they have propaganda department) churning out russian imitations and recently US imitations and some in west take up that propaganda for their own benefit that does not give credence to your imitations.

SO when did J10 pass spin recovery and wake penetration tests?? may be a min back when you were busy making a psed pic of J10 with recovery chute :P

Only ignoramus like you toe your media and governments propaganda line that by buying foreign technology you can get one up over your adversary, who happens to be building and testing better platforms. Sensible people are able to judge the level of success by numbers which PLAAF are inducting. Did you ever hear PLAAF complaining about our engines and telling the public that it is only good for drones? Where have you been when everyone was posting pictures of Chinese engines on their planes? :lol:

If you want more insight into J-10, then all you need to do is perform a keyword search on a man named "雷强" or "Senior Colonel Lei Qiang". He was the test pilot who helped design the J-10:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/3218-j-10-fc-20-mrca-39-print.html

This is an interview of Senior Colonel Lei Qiang, chief test pilot of J-10. The pilots that flew J-10 in Zhu hai air show are his student and student of student.

Interesting points in the article.

1. J-10 project started in the mid 80's with no specific name, only called "3rd gen fighter" or "New fighter".

2. When they first started selecting perspective test pilots, only fighter in China that had HUD was J-7M. So they used a Yes/No test to screen them. That is, each person was given 0.3 second to view a HUD image, and determine if it's correct, and they had to identify 100 pictures in a row with no mistake to pass. Lei Qiang was the first to pass, second was Lu Jun, third was a staff officer from an airbase.

3. The three were later sent to Israel to fly LAVI simulator in 1986,

4. They formed a 19 member test pilot team, of the 19, 9 were selected as "first batch test pilot" group, participating fully in the design process. Then 5 of the 9 formed the chief test pilot group for the actual test flight.

5. Lei Qiang and Lu Jun were sent to Russian in 1993 for test pilot training, practicing tail spin and Su27/30. But Lu Jun later died in an accident, so Lei Qiang was the only one flying the entire test flight phase.

6. The change of J-10's landing gear door from two piece to three piece were Lei Qiang's suggestion.

7. Lei Qiang flew tail spin recovery in Russia to familiarize with triangle wing tail spin recovery, then on Su27 to familiarize with 3rd gen fighter operation

8. The shape of control sticks, placement and function of buttons on the stick and around the displays are the work of test pilots.

9. Lei Qiang first saw the full scale wooden mock up of J-10 around 1990

10. He helped to determine placement of instruments, canopy opening, feedback on the stick, controls on electric switch, engines, etc.

11. Lei Qiang first met Israeli scientists in 1984, as part of test program for firing PL-8 on J-7. Firing PL-8 will cause J-7 to roll sideway 40 degrees, and if pilot compensate right away, the smoke from missile to stop the engine.

12. Lei Qiang had NO EXPERIENCE FIRING MISSILES in 1984?! (Shocking, isn't it.) He didn't know to compensate for the roll right away, but that's how his engine didn't stop from the smoke. And that's the solution they decided on, so when PLAAF J-7 fires a PL-8, the force from the launch will cause the plane to roll, and the pilots are instructed to not compensate for 2 seconds. (Another typical PLA non-technical solution to a very technical problem)

13. From this experience, Israelis told Chinese that their plane sucks, and Israel has something far better. (Guess that's how they wind up going to Israel to fly the Lavi simulator)

14. When they first started designing the J-10, neither the designer nor the pilots can conceptually grasps the operation of FBW system.

15. 60% of the technology used on J-10 are new.

16. Lei Qiang's first real experience on a FBW aircraft is on a British converted LearJet in 1995. There he experienced what PIO could be like.

17. When conducting high speed taxi test, they almost could not test lifting up the front wheel because CAC's runway is too short.

18. Lei Qiang did flight demonstration of J-10 to foreign guests, and probably did a tail slide then going directly into a vertical climb. Exact wording are: After vertical climb and turn, I did not turn on afterburner right away and accelerate vertically, instead allowed aircraft to drop slightly before turning on afterburner.

19. The first flight of J-10 were done in unstable configuration.

20. First flight were in 1998, march 23rd

21. During first flight, the responsiveness of J-10 so surprised lei Qiang that he shouted, "WTF!"

22. J-10's instantaneous roll rate is more than 200 degrees/sec.

23. During the first two years of J-10's test flight, Lei Qiang was the only test pilot! (another shocker and WTF, what if he crashed and died or injured? The whole project could have died)

24. 04 prototype tested a new engine. 05 prototype was testing domestication. (What does this mean? J-10 wasn't domestic up to that point?)

25. To train to be a test pilot, Lei Qiang had went to Israel, Russia, UK, Sweden and Egypt for training, Russia for 5 times.

26. J-10 is not a copy of Lavi. Israelis taught them how to design aircraft, such as using computer for design, simulation and analysis.

27. Israelis saw J-10 taking off with full external load. (Wonder when did that happen)

28. Maximum sustained turning G load for J-10 is 8.9. Lei Qiang flew it starting at Mach 1.2, 1000 meter, full afterburn. Speed dropped to Mach 0.6 after a while. (I guess they aren't kidding when they say triangle wing bleed energy during tight turn) Lei Qiang was 48 at the time, seemed to have broken a record for highest age and longest time flying at 8.9G.

29. J-10 was transfered to flight test academy after 05 prototype flew.

30. 01 prototype flew to academy on a lot of internal fuel (I'm guessing full internal) and drop tanks. After arriving at Xian, he still had more than 1 hour of fuel left before reaching landing weight.

31. J-10's turning radius is much, much smaller than J-7. J-7 seems to take 30 seconds to complete a full turn.

32. According to Lei Qiang, F-16's horizontal turning capability doesn't measure up to J-10. J-10's vertical turning capability is even with F-16. Su-27's vertical maneuver capability is stronger than J-10 because it has higher T/W ratio. Horizontal turning is even. But rolling rate J-10 is much better. At Mach 1.2, Su-27 has roll rate of 20-30 degrees/sec,(this has to be a mistake) while J-10 has more than 200 degrees/sec.

33. According to Lei Qiang, J-10's instrument is better than F-16 (although this is probably only true compared with Pakistan's F-16A) and much superior to Su-27.

34. J-10 can perform the Cobra maneuver, up to 160 degrees.

With someone of his experience and stature behind the J-10 program and the numbers we now field, do you still think others will care about what you personally have to say about our planes? It is obviously that PLAAF was confident of its performance if they are to field that many in the first place. This plane can dance circles around your LCA.

:azn:
 
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WOW I asked you for a link and you came back with some dumb logic like world is talking about Chinese 5th gen planes. Chinese are best at propaganda (that is why they have propaganda department) churning out russian imitations and recently US imitations and some in west take up that propaganda for their own benefit that does not give credence to your imitations.

SO when did J10 pass spin recovery and wake penetration tests?? may be a min back when you were busy making a psed pic of J10 with recovery chute :P

Your trolling skill sucks the most in PDF. come to China and open your eyes, you live in stone age.
 
Did you ever hear PLAAF complaining about our engines and telling the public that it is only good for drones? Where have you been when everyone was posting pictures of Chinese engines on their planes? :lol:

That is when they have complain as an option, They have the burden of upholding the image of mighty dragon.

This clearly highlights attitude and capability of your forces ( from your own link) :

Lei Qiang first met Israeli scientists in 1984, as part of test program for firing PL-8 on J-7. Firing PL-8 will cause J-7 to roll sideway 40 degrees, and if pilot compensate right away, the smoke from missile to stop the engine. (no right minded AF will avoid complaining about such a major flaw in the plane, who knows what flaws J10 has.)

Lei Qiang had NO EXPERIENCE FIRING MISSILES in 1984?! (Shocking, isn't it.) He didn't know to compensate for the roll right away (did he pass the Pilot test?), but that's how his engine didn't stop from the smoke. And that's the solution they decided on, so when PLAAF J-7 fires a PL-8, the force from the launch will cause the plane to roll, and the pilots are instructed to not compensate for 2 seconds.

From this experience, Israelis told Chinese that their plane sucks, (LOL) and Israel has something far better. (Guess that's how they wind up going to Israel to fly the Lavi simulator)

04 prototype tested a new engine. 05 prototype was testing domestication. (What does this mean? J-10 wasn't domestic up to that point?) Hmmm So after all J10 is not that indigenous after all.

With someone of his experience and stature behind the J-10 program and the numbers we now field, do you still think others will care about what you personally have to say about our planes? It is obviously that PLAAF was confident of its performance if they are to field that many in the first place.

Now you taking support of invisible others. LOL. PLAAF Confident just like the case of J7. BTW when did J10 passed spin recovery test and wake penetration test?

This plane can dance circles around your LCA.

The Wake of Tejas is enough to toss your mighty dragon to ground.
 
Your trolling skill sucks the most in PDF. come to China and open your eyes, you live in stone age.

I know CPC is expert of trolling, propaganda and copying. Spare me CPC propaganda world. Would you care providing me a link for J10 spin recovery test and wake penetration test?? I am serious, just want to know what problems you faced and how you solved them Or did russia or Israel help you with that.
 
That is when they have complain as an option, They have the burden of upholding the image of mighty dragon.

We just happen to be more efficient and complain less ;)

This clearly highlights attitude and capability of your forces ( from your own link) :

Lei Qiang first met Israeli scientists in 1984, as part of test program for firing PL-8 on J-7. Firing PL-8 will cause J-7 to roll sideway 40 degrees, and if pilot compensate right away, the smoke from missile to stop the engine. (no right minded AF will avoid complaining about such a major flaw in the plane, who knows what flaws J10 has.)

Note, this happened in 1984. We have now successfully fielded our J-10. What do you have for show? the non combat ready LCA? One that the IAF don't think is fit enough to inducted because its engine sucked? Try harder next time. :lol:

Lei Qiang had NO EXPERIENCE FIRING MISSILES in 1984?! (Shocking, isn't it.) He didn't know to compensate for the roll right away (did he pass the Pilot test?), but that's how his engine didn't stop from the smoke. And that's the solution they decided on, so when PLAAF J-7 fires a PL-8, the force from the launch will cause the plane to roll, and the pilots are instructed to not compensate for 2 seconds.

From this experience, Israelis told Chinese that their plane sucks, (LOL) and Israel has something far better. (Guess that's how they wind up going to Israel to fly the Lavi simulator)

He went to numerous places for training, not just Israel. In return he successfully aided the design of our J-10.

So, over the course of thirty years we have come up with a strong working medium weight multi-role fighter and progressed into developing 5th gen. Our neighbour, despite all the technological spoils are still pulling its hair over their light weight multi-role.

04 prototype tested a new engine. 05 prototype was testing domestication. (What does this mean? J-10 wasn't domestic up to that point?) Hmmm So after all J10 is not that indigenous after all.

And I wonder who built and is still building the planes for China? :azn:

Now you taking support of invisible others. LOL. PLAAF Confident just like the case of J7. BTW when did J10 passed spin recovery test and wake penetration test?

If our plane failed their tests, would they end up being massed produced in this fashion? More importantly, since when did your LCA pass your tests? They'd be happy to even see it take off with full load and not failing to achieve high angle of attack in the air.


The Wake of Tejas is enough to toss your mighty dragon to ground.

With it's puny -90KN engine? The JF-17 alone can give you a rather rude awakening, let alone the J-10 :lol:

I know CPC is expert of trolling, propaganda and copying. Spare me CPC propaganda world. Would you care providing me a link for J10 spin recovery test and wake penetration test?? I am serious, just want to know what problems you faced and how you solved them Or did russia or Israel help you with that.

If they did, then you should have no problem finding sources stating so :azn:
 
Your trolling skill sucks the most in PDF. come to China and open your eyes, you live in stone age.

he is an Indian, what do you expect?

I know CPC is expert of trolling, propaganda and copying. Spare me CPC propaganda world. Would you care providing me a link for J10 spin recovery test and wake penetration test?? I am serious, just want to know what problems you faced and how you solved them Or did russia or Israel help you with that.
the real world is very different from the slums you live in```the world sees India as a primitive factor driven society, who cannot copy a rifle,, do you know it kid, or your master has been keeping it from you?
 
We just happen to be more efficient and complain less ;)

just like in the case of J7.

[/QUOTE]Note, this happened in 1984. We have now successfully fielded our J-10. [/QUOTE]

Successfully? Just like J7s.

[/QUOTE]And I wonder who built and is still building the planes for China? [/QUOTE]
Chinese who else, but...

If our plane failed their tests, would they end up being massed produced in this fashion?

PLAAF inducted J7 in mass numbers with a major flaw. I was just looking for spin and wake tests on J10, not a single evidence of spin recovery and wake tests for J10, let alone high AOA tests. So just wondering, what a wake can do to J10.
 
just like in the case of J7.

What about the J-7?

Successfully? Just like J7s.

As of now the J-7 are more successful than your LCA.
Your Tejas are still hanging around waiting for their indigenous "GE F414 engines" as we speak.

Chinese who else, but...

PLAAF inducted J7 in mass numbers with a major flaw. I was just looking for spin and wake tests on J10, not a single evidence of spin recovery and wake tests for J10, let alone high AOA tests. So just wondering, what a wake can do to J10.

You think China is incapable of fault finding and over many years never learnt from its mistakes? Mind you, Jian-7 is still operational today with the latest being the J-7G variant:

J-7G

With the success of F-7MG/PG series export fighter, Chengdu quickly developed its domestic equivalent J-7G with similar design upgrades. The J-7G is equipped with an I/J-band KLJ-6E Lieying (“Falcon”) pulse-Doppler fire-control radar allegedly based on the Israeli EL/M2001. A new one-piece front windscreen replaced the original three-piece design for better cockpit visibility. Other improvements include a new Type III IFF, an indigenous zero-height, zero-speed ejection seat, and improved electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite.

The J-7G firs flew in June 2002 and entered the PLAAF service in 2004. The J-7G production is expected to last for few years before the J-10 and J-11B fighter can enter service in significant numbers. 16 examples of the J-7G fighter were delivered to the PLAAF 37th Air Division (serial number 5XX8X) based at Urumqi, Xinjiang. An additional 32 aircraft were delivered to the PLAAF 12th Division (serial number 2XX3X) in November 2006. An unarmed version designated J-7GB replaced the earlier J-7EB in the PLAAF August 1st Aerobatic Demonstration Team.

If the J-10 is so poorly designed, we would not be producing; J-10B, J-10S and developing the J-10AH variant. Instead, we would be stuck with the J-7 and we would probably be knocking on India's door for some 'Tejas 101'.

Thankfully, it was the India doing just that, knocking on westerner's doors, fearing Pakistan's JF-17 and China's J-10 :lol:
 
What about the J-7?



As of now the J-7 are more successful than your LCA.
Your Tejas are still hanging around waiting for their indigenous "GE F414 engines" as we speak.



You think China is incapable of fault finding and over many years never learnt from its mistakes? Mind you, Jian-7 is still operational today with the latest being the J-7G variant:



If the J-10 is so poorly designed, we would not be producing; J-10B, J-10S and developing the J-10AH variant. Instead, we would be stuck with the J-7 and we would probably be knocking on India's door for some 'Tejas 101'.

Thankfully, it was the India doing just that, knocking on westerner's doors, fearing Pakistan's JF-17 and China's J-10 :lol:

Where are links dude? Or the J10 is still flying with restricted envelope even after induction? Lets hope CPC releases spin and wake test pics for J20 and J31 with the same fervor they showing lately.
 
Where are links dude? Or the J10 is still flying with restricted envelope? Lets hope CPC releases spin and wake test pics for J20 and J31.

Yes is has reached IOC despite failing their tests and somehow got inducted en-masse. Same principal will be applied to our J-31 and J-20. We have our own system and methods of testing and whatever happens behind those bamboo curtains remains behind those bamboo curtains. Just be happy with your Tejas, as we are with our J-10 and Pakistan, their JF-17. Meantime whilst you are waiting, enjoy our library of pictures and videos of our J-11; J-15, J-16, J-20 and J-31 platforms :azn:
 
Jet engine is very complex technology; its obvious that China is not successful yet in developing their own operational jet engine.

Their jet engine, it seems, will be ready till 2020.
 
our J-11; J-15, J-16, J-20 and J-31 platforms :azn:

When did copied design become yours? J11, J15, J16 are illegally reverse engineered from russian airframe. J31 derived from mixing F22 and F35. I can understand when you take pride in J20, J10 but why J11, J15 and J16?
 
you are waiting, enjoy our library of pictures and videos of our J-11; J-15, J-16, J-20 and J-31 platforms :azn:

I know you have library of videos of your aircrafts, but non show any spin, wake tests, that can instill more confidence in your plane and boost the chances of export.
 
When did copied design become yours?

The 'rightful owners' sending you over to collect them?


J11, J15, J16 are illegally reverse engineered from russian airframe. J31 derived from mixing F22 and F35. I can understand when you take pride in J20, J10 but why J11, J15 and J16?

Claims one who likes to mishmash a Mirage with a bit of General Electronics and calling it indigenous?
come back when your country can produce anything near as decent as the J-7G without copying.
Talk asif copying and reverse engineering an aircraft is as simple of building legos :lol:
 
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