What's new

INS Viraat has life left: Commanding Officer

IN sea Harriers had an Avionics upgrade back in 2010 with Isreali systems....
The Defence systems of the Carrier are its Task force and its escorts .... not the carrier itself...

The new radar is quite limited and avionics are still pretty bad, just google for some pics. Furthermore the Harrier is slow and would be trashed in any dogfight while it hasnt got BVR capabilities. And as I said earlier, it cannot even be refueled in the air, which means its strike range is restricted badly as well.
 
.
The new radar is quite limited and avionics are still pretty bad, just google for some pics. Furthermore the Harrier is slow and would be trashed in any dogfight while it hasnt got BVR capabilities. And as I said earlier, it cannot even be refueled in the air, which means its strike range is restricted badly as well.

But then we are not keeping it for another 10years. We have to pull it for atleast 2 year more. Yea you view is totaly right but we cant help it... A/c gives huge edge... As for now because no other country operating a/c in south asia.. Our navy dont wanna lose this mental pressure which is been created by ins virat... Try to think this way too. As soon as we get viky,navy will focus on that... And count down of viraat will start.
 
.
The new radar is quite limited and avionics are still pretty bad, just google for some pics. Furthermore the Harrier is slow and would be trashed in any dogfight while it hasnt got BVR capabilities. And as I said earlier, it cannot even be refueled in the air, which means its strike range is restricted badly as well.

Dog Fight ?... with whom ? Its not made to Dog fight ..it wasn't made to dogfight when it was first devoloped ...besides it has an Derby BVRAAM Air to AIr missile..... The avionics has also been updated , the radar of the IN sea Harriers is Elta EL/M-2032 multimode fire control radar ...this is certainly not a limited radar , ISreali's don't make "limited" radars...
 
.
Turn Viraat into a helicopter carrier, in that way it can serve a little more.
 
. .
Turn Viraat into a helicopter carrier, in that way it can serve a little more.

For that we need to wait till viky.... Or that will a foolish thing ever done to viraat.
I think this be costly to operate just for helis... Dont you think?

Which Helis can be placed ? Will Viraat be able to operate more Helis if the Harrier is decommissioned ?

6 to 7 more helis... I don't think that will be smart move... :P
 
.
Which Helis can be placed ? Will Viraat be able to operate more Helis if the Harrier is decommissioned ?

Dhruvs, Sea Kings, and other ASW and AEW platforms.

Presence of Harriers has been on only symbolic significance, the numbers are very less enough to make any impact as an aircraft carrier.

For that we need to wait till viky.... Or that will a foolish thing ever done to viraat.
I think this be costly to operate just for helis... Dont you think?

Actually no, operating a VTOL fighter jet is more expensive than a helicopter. And India is looking at Mistral class for future acquisition. So Viraat might serve as a training vessel until the acquisition is done.
 
. . . .
Depends on how you look at it!

Yes the carrier is old and so are the fighters, but what is it they really have to do and whom are they fighting? PN will very little capability? Not really, our Sub, Frigats and Destroyers will be tasked with them. Attacking costal areas? Not really, IN subs, Frigats and Destroyers have long range cruise missile capability and IAF fighters are literally living next door. All the Virrat really would be used for, are Sea Control missions after destroying PNs capability and for that the carrier and the fighter would still be more than useful.
Besides that, in another major Tsunami like disaster, INs main assets for disaster relief missions are the Viraat and the Jlashwa LDP. So until other carriers, or preferably LHDs/LDPs will be available, they do have an importance, but since there is a lack of real enemies, the importance is limited as well.
Viki and IAC1 will be more capable, to fight growing threats from PLAN as well and IAC 2 will be the first one that will have real importance wrt projecting power to greater distances.
 
.
You never know.... We are not at war but war needs 1 week to grow... Plus its matter of securing not war. If that is the case we should reduce the defence budget or men or anything..?

My point was regarding that 6 harriers, how much substantial difference does it make in a theater of war?
 
.
The INS Viraat has crossed her max life span already.

Even after upgrades, if any, at max it will serve IN for till 2020.

Fortunately we will have Vikramaditya and IAC 1 till then
 
.
Many people are missing two points here.

1) The Viraat and its harriers were never meant to attack enemy shores and fight air battles with their air forces. They might be able to strike the shores of a nation with no credible air defence or air force, but that is not what the Indian navy had in mind when it purchased the Viraat, and it is not for that remote possibility that they operated an aircraft carrier at TREMENDOUS costs all these decades.

The role of the aircraft carrier for the Indian navy was always sea control, and naval superiority on the high seas. Any enemy naval fleet that operated without air cover would be decimated by the IN's air wing. The harriers carry potent anti ship missiles, and each one of these can sink one enemy ship. These aircrafts would do CAP of the IN's carrier fleet, and they would be able to detect, track and attack enemy ships long before the ships of either side can see or detect each other. So think about what a huge advantage an air cover gives to the IN, over a naval force that has no air cover. Despite the harriers being old in the tooth, two generations outdated, lacking any credible air to air capability, they can still fire anti ship missiles, and therefore can still fulfill the roles the In air arm played so far.

People look at the USN and its formidable array of super hornets with the ability to take on any air force, and assume that this is what our own air wing is intended for. It is not; taking the fight to enemy shores would have been near impossible for the harriers and viraat even when they were spanking new. The mig 29Ks and the Rafales-Ms and super hornets can do that, which is why in future the IN may be looking at such roles too. But their air arm will primarily be tasked with fleet defence.

In a USN task force, the aircraft carrier is the main weapon to fight war, while the accompanying ships mainly protect it. For IN, and most navies with a small air wing or medium sized carrier, it is the other way round - the carrier and its air wing protect the task force.

As I said though, with the introduction of potent multirole platforms like the mig 29K or Rafale-Ms (or whatever we choose for IAC-2), the navy may be looking at surprise ground attacks too. But it is the IAF that will be primarily tasked with that role.

2) Even if the viraat is old in the tooth, and lacks the punch it had in its hayday, it is still important to retain it in the navy and continue carrier operations, so that we don't lose the experience and skills gained in all these years. Even a gap of 3-4 years in conducting carrier operations can damage the continuity of our skill sets, which is what the British navy tried to point out when they put their carrier in cold storage for a few years. If a war breaks out, the Viraat may not participate in frontline battles at all; but still, carrying out carrier ops every day during peace time will ensure continuity of skills, which is why the navy is soldiering on with the grand old lady at great cost. These are very complicated skill sets - it is not just about pilot skills in taking off and landing on the moving carrier, but also the organizational and technical skills required to operate an airport-cum-city that moves in the high seas, and is expected to fire and be fired upon.

Watch any good documentary about the Viraat or other carrier operations, to know how many skill sets have to converge and work together for such a feat.
 
.
Atleast those 6 Harriers are able to do bvr.

Actually around 14 Harriers were upgraded with Elta EL/M-2032 multimode fire control radar, Derby BVRAAM, combat manoeuvring flight recorders and digital cockpit voice recorders..but I think only 12 remained.where did you find this number "6"???
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom