INS Vikramaditya will be delivered in November

[Koovie]

Its Russian mistake which every one talks about in the world for not building N-Carriers which should have been started in 2004 and completed all of the 6 till 2015.

6 nuclear ACs for Russia????????

Do you know how fukcing expensive this would be?

Only the US can afford such a high number in the present time, and maybe China is some years.

 

[sancho]

Ruskie utilize Indian funds training workers how to build a damn carrier.
Ruskie sucks.

That's why you buy and build Russian subs, carriers, fighters, helicopters, transport aircafts, weapons...
What do you think they take your money for? Exactly, to develop more capable subs, carriers, fighters, helicopters, transport aircafts, weapons...for their needs. Both China and India are not as capable as Russia today and they need our money, so it's a give and take and since the Russians know that at some point our countries might not need them anymore, they lean towards S. America and Europe now.

China should be care of the joint project with Russia

That's the problem, they don't offer you such high end joint projects, since you proved to not be reliable enough to them. That's why you had to go to Ukraine to get a older carrier and the necessary know how on how to develop carriers or navalise the Russian Flanker.
For India instead, Russia offers co-developments of naval Pak Fas, or nuclear carriers, which shows the difference of relation to Russia.

 

[sweetgrape]

That's why you buy and build Russian subs, carriers, fighters, helicopters, transport aircafts, weapons...
What do you think they take your money for? Exactly, to develop more capable subs, carriers, fighters, helicopters, transport aircafts, weapons...for their needs. Both China and India are not as capable as Russia today and they need our money, so it's a give and take and since the Russians know that at some point our countries might not need them anymore, they lean towards S. America and Europe now.

To some extent, they utilize us, we too, China and India both import many weapons from Russia, beform we are No.1 importer of Russia weapon, Now it is you, but the question, Who learn more and faster from foreign weapon? China or india?
And to a large extent, Russia are live on past, after USSR collapsed, after 20 years, China catch up with Russia in some military domains.

That's the problem, they don't offer you such high end joint projects, since you proved to not be reliable enough to them. That's why you had to go to Ukraine to get a older carrier and the necessary know how on how to develop carriers or navalise the Russian Flanker.
For India instead, Russia offers co-developments of naval Pak Fas, or nuclear carriers, which shows the difference of relation to Russia.

Do you know in where is the shipbuilder that building most of USSR carriers? and all know that the training central for carrier of USSR lied in Ukraine, and UKraine have many advanced single technologies, many advanced equipments that left by USSR, all these are we need, and it is easier to get, why not, beside Ukraine, Belarus also have many advanced single technology, I know you india look down on these "outdated" technologies, but we want them, we are glad to pay for it, hehe!!
About the so-called India-Russia joint project, seems you are very happy for these, you just pay money, most of work is did by Russian scientist, you can get all technologies? even you can, you can design and finish the similar project alone later?
Just one question, How many have you learned from these Joint projects and countless global tenders with TOT?

 

[anant_s]

Post World war II only two economies were in position to sustain military expenditure and by extension be in tune with time as far as weapon development is concerned. Today when countries like India or China look towards US or Russia with money in their hands to defence co-operation, they are merely trying to cover the ground on someone else's shoulders.
Russia without a doubt is India's most trusted all weather friend but if we assume in a hypothetical scenario where all technologies were available to anyone having money, Russia would have been left long behind by US.
Not everyone has very deep pockets and not everyone wants starwar weapons and this is where Russia made its market.
Today if Russia offers joint ventures, it is becuase it accepts change in reality where countries not just want to pay for hardware but also for generating an industry base and competency and there is nothing wrong in it.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

That's the problem, they don't offer you such high end joint projects, since you proved to not be reliable enough to them. That's why you had to go to Ukraine to get a older carrier and the necessary know how on how to develop carriers or navalise the Russian Flanker.
For India instead, Russia offers co-developments of naval Pak Fas, or nuclear carriers, which shows the difference of relation to Russia.

We don't pay to prove ourself reliable, we pay to get what we want..LMAO. As for high end joint joint projects, you Indians are just dreaming: no nation to offer you an high end project to compromise their own security, you might get something slidely better that what Russia offer to China...that's about it. Ukraine is a technology gold mine: heavy transport engine AN-124 & An-255, heavy hovering craft, Aircraft nuke propulson, all the new top secret blue prints & experimental project of U.S.S.R...of course our casino...we're more than happy to cooperate with them and still doing it.

And don't flatter yourself with so call co-development, as one of Russian official stated about Pak-Fa, "what India can contribute beside the money?", And yes continue to dream to get the core technologies from Russia with your so call co-development, no one like to create a future competitor that is the golden rule of any arm suppliers.

 

[illusion8]

As for high end joint joint projects, you Indians are just dreaming: no nation to offer you an high end project to compromise their own security,

And don't flatter yourself with so call co-development, as one of Russian official stated about Pak-Fa, "what India can contribute beside the money?", And yes continue to dream to get the core technologies from Russia with your so call co-development, no one like to create a future competitor that is the golden rule of any arm suppliers.

Swedish Investments in the Indian Defence Industry: Prospects and challenges | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
Senator Calls for US Defense Collaboration with India | India Journal
American Foreign Policy Council - News & Events » Other Events » U.S.-India Missile Defense and Space Cooperation
French defence major Dassault, RIL ink MoU for collaboration in defence sector - Economic Times
India, Israel May Work Together on More Weapons | Defense News | defensenews.com
http://idsa.in/system/files/strategicanalysis_jbakshi_0606.pdf
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/whatsnew/india_uk_sign.pdf
Russia and India announce step-change helicopter production
India, Japan Boost Defence Ties
India, Germany to sign joint defence pact - Times Of India

Please read up before opening your mouth

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Swedish Investments in the Indian Defence Industry: Prospects and challenges | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses
Senator Calls for US Defense Collaboration with India | India Journal
American Foreign Policy Council - News & Events » Other Events » U.S.-India Missile Defense and Space Cooperation
French defence major Dassault, RIL ink MoU for collaboration in defence sector - Economic Times
India, Israel May Work Together on More Weapons | Defense News | defensenews.com
http://idsa.in/system/files/strategicanalysis_jbakshi_0606.pdf
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/whatsnew/india_uk_sign.pdf
Russia and India announce step-change helicopter production
India, Japan Boost Defence Ties
India, Germany to sign joint defence pact - Times Of India

Please read up before opening your mouth

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-Albert Einstein

Oh really, such joint high end project as Brahmos that A.K Antony is begging Russia to buy back due to the cost? These nations offer India to join their exports project at conditions India buys from them...Mr. Einstein.

 

[illusion8]

These nations offer India to join their exports project at conditions India buys from them...Mr. Einstein.

So what do you really think happens in JV's? do companies form joint ventures to play around or do business?

"Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand".
Chinese Proverb

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

So what do you really think happens in JV's? do companies form joint ventures to play around or do business?

"Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand".
Chinese Proverb

JV is profit sharing when two parties cooperate to make money from the third country: but India case, these countries claim JV and offer to Join high end project but infact they're making money out of India's back.

I dare India to declare to these nations that India is willing to have JV but not commit to buy anything, you will surprise of their reaction...they will pull out right away.

 

[illusion8]

JV is profit sharing when two parties cooperate to make money from the third country: but India case, these countries claim JV and offer to Join high end project but infact they're making money out of India's back.

I dare India to declare to these nations that India is willing to have JV but not commit to buy anything, you will surprise of their reaction...they will pull out right away.

We are not experts in Defense tech so the point of your "dare" is moot, why would any one want to collaborate with a third country to sell and supply to some other country - given that the third country does not have the required technology.

"The person who admits ignorance shows it once; the one who tries to hide it shows it often".
Japanese proverb

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

We are not experts in Defense tech so the point of your "dare" is moot, why would any one want to collaborate with a third country to sell and supply to some other country - given that the third country does not have the required technology.

You asked me what I think of JV, so I gave you my definition, in case of India, it's never a JV, it's a bait that these nations want to catch a big fish. Now you understand why would any one want to collaborate with a third country - given that the third country does not have the required technology. of course at conditional that this third country is committed to buy in order for them to make some profit to make cooperation a sucess.

 

[illusion8]

You asked me what I think of JV, so I gave you my definition, in case of India, it's never a JV, it's a bait that these nations want to catch a big fish. Now you understand why would any one want to collaborate with a third country - given that the third country does not have the required technology. of course at conditional that this third country is committed to buy in order for them to make some profit to make cooperation a sucess.

Dude understand one thing - We need those weapons and platforms, now let's work out what's different here..

Saudi Arabia buys the latest tech too and there are scores of suppliers who supply them - but do they make an effort to make their own? - though they have started to from probably last year or so..

India needs those tech and platforms and there is no harm in getting into a JV and boosting our own industries and tech too.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Dude understand one thing - We need those weapons and platforms, now let's work out what's different here..

Saudi Arabia buys the latest tech too and there are scores of suppliers who supply them - but do they make an effort to make their own? - though they have started to from probably last year or so..

India needs those tech and platforms and there is no harm in getting into a JV and boosting our own industries and tech too.

Saudi Arabia is just a pure buyer, India is buyer with some tech transfer, but don't tell us as for high end joint projects as you claim in post #51....because those nations don't buy back or domestic use what they intent to export such as Brahmos.

 

[illusion8]

Saudi Arabia is just a pure buyer, India is buyer with some tech transfer, but don't tell us as for high end joint projects as you claim in post #51....because those nations don't buy back or domestic use what they intent to export such as Brahmos.

Brahmos does not fit into Russian criteria - it's just a 300 km missile while their enemies are thousands of miles away. We are into high end joint projects with Russia, Israel and France and probably soon with Japan, US and some more European countries.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Brahmos does not fit into Russian criteria - it's just a 300 km missile while their enemies are thousands of miles away. We are into high end joint projects with Russia, Israel and France and probably soon with Japan, US and some more European countries.

Care to tell us which "India high end joint projects" will fit into the criteria of those nations India will cooperate? Take example of this Vicky...does it met Russian criteria? or if Russian gonna duplicate it for their own usage?

These mentioned nations are cooperated projects to meet India criteira for money and not the other way around