Infiltration bid foiled, five militants killed in J&K

[acid rain]

Absolutely right. Can't agree more. But anyway with neighbour in the west, its gonna take some time till we go on some conclusion and till then we have no option but to keep dispatching militants to hell. But I am happy that Kashmiri Police is taking part in almost every operation now and coming out with success. Indian army has trained them well.

This continous proxy war needs to end and its up to us to put an end to it - just deploying troops is not the solution.

 

[kaykay]

This continous proxy war needs to end and its up to us to put an end to it - just deploying troops is not the solution.

how????????

 

[acid rain]

how????????

End the source of the proxy war or removing the capability to wage one, this is not an idealogical, religious war neither is it for the locals or their interests, this is geopolitical and an extension of the hostilities that we face from our enemies since their creation, so the question is - how does one win a war?

 

[illusion8]

Nice shooting boys

A bit too gruesome for jannat and the 72's though - they'll surely not get the pick of the lot with faces messed up like that.

 

[karan.1970]

all Head shots except one.?

Headshots.. Looks like the change in MO of RR

May they rest in peace and find solace in death.

What's the need to publicize pictures of their dead bodies? To many they maybe terrorists. To me they remain misguided souls whose personal circumstances are being exploited by somebody.

What better way to deter others from getting misguided than to show them the possible repercussions of becoming such ...

 

[janon]

Bro, there's more to it then just killing the scumwe have to continously deploy considerable forces and resources throughout - that means strain on our forces, money spent, occasional loss of our bravehearts (one of their life is worthy then 10, 000 of these scum - this is a low intensity prolonged war which will keep our resources tied forever. Resources that we could have used elsewhere - this is a method of keeping our forces embroiled and not do anything which is more fruitful. This is the long term problem and a worrying factor.

You are not looking at the other side of that coin. Yes, it is true that India has to spend a lot of resources in training and deploying forces, but what about Pakistan? Jehadis/terrorists/non-state-actors/whaever the latest name is, they don't grow on trees either. Their society has to pay a bigger price, though not monetarily, to train and equip these militants.

They spend money on recruiting and training and brainwashing their young men, who then die at the border. We spend money to recruit and train officers and jawans, who lead productive lives in society, as highly trained and motivated individuals. Which one seems to be a better deal?

Sure, the (financial) cost for India to train and deploy a soldier is more than the cost for them to train and send a militant. But all of their militants end up like what you see in those pics, while only a few of our soldiers get martyred. The soldiers we train then contribute to society in various ways, not only in the armed forces, but later in civilian jobs as well, since they are highly trained, disciplined and motivated. They also become breadwinners for their families, and their spouses and children depend on them. It is not like we have a major labour shortage - so why not spend our resources in paying the salaries and for the training of these people, rather than giving it away in stupid welfare schemes lie food bill and fuel subsidies?

Now another point - as I explained, their "strategic assets", on whom they spend their nation's meager resources, all get blown up wastefully even before reaching their destination. They spend not only money, but also most of their training and law enforcement resources on these so called assets, which means that they have that much less for ensuring law and order in their own country. The results of which are there for everyone to see. Also, these "strategic asset" fellows they train don't limit their expertise on India. After a while, they start biting the hand that fed them, and breed and multiply within their country, spawning so many terror groups there to overwhelm their own trainers.

So while India spends resources on training a cadre of highly qualified security professionals who contribute positively to the nation, they waste their money on training and arming assets that are eventually going to be liabilities.

With all that in mind, do you really think it is such a bad situation from an Indian POV? They famously tried to "bleed India by a thousand cuts", but who ended up bleeding more?

 

[Ayush]

great news..

 

[Abingdonboy]

all Head shots except one.?

Maybe this is the SOP now after the encounter not long back where infiltrators detonated suicde vests when challenged by the IA.

 

[illusion8]

You are not looking at the other side of that coin. Yes, it is true that India has to spend a lot of resources in training and deploying forces, but what about Pakistan? Jehadis/terrorists/non-state-actors/whaever the latest name is, they don't grow on trees either. Their society has to pay a bigger price, though not monetarily, to train and equip these militants.

They spend money on recruiting and training and brainwashing their young men, who then die at the border. We spend money to recruit and train officers and jawans, who lead productive lives in society, as highly trained and motivated individuals. Which one seems to be a better deal?

Sure, the (financial) cost for India to train and deploy a soldier is more than the cost for them to train and send a militant. But all of their militants end up like what you see in those pics, while only a few of our soldiers get martyred. The soldiers we train then contribute to society in various ways, not only in the armed forces, but later in civilian jobs as well, since they are highly trained, disciplined and motivated. They also become breadwinners for their families, and their spouses and children depend on them. It is not like we have a major labour shortage - so why not spend our resources in paying the salaries and for the training of these people, rather than giving it away in stupid welfare schemes lie food bill and fuel subsidies?

Now another point - as I explained, their "strategic assets", on whom they spend their nation's meager resources, all get blown up wastefully even before reaching their destination. They spend not only money, but also most of their training and law enforcement resources on these so called assets, which means that they have that much less for ensuring law and order in their own country. The results of which are there for everyone to see. Also, these "strategic asset" fellows they train don't limit their expertise on India. After a while, they start biting the hand that fed them, and breed and multiply within their country, spawning so many terror groups there to overwhelm their own trainers.

So while India spends resources on training a cadre of highly qualified security professionals who contribute positively to the nation, they waste their money on training and arming assets that are eventually going to be liabilities.

With all that in mind, do you really think it is such a bad situation from an Indian POV? They famously tried to "bleed India by a thousand cuts", but who ended up bleeding more?

He is right,

your logic though being right is not pro active, honestly who gives a FF where their economy, security goes or how much lives they lose at the hands of their own trained militants - what as Indians we should be concerned about is our own security, the lives and resources of our own forces and how do we end this never ending menace. I don't fancy our troops deployed and fighting for decades a low cost proxy war and always keep the tension brimming - a fast and decisive solution would be more desirable which allows us to carry on with developing our own populace.

One more factor is the geopolitical spread of wahhabism - or whatever they call it, and it's targeted to reach Kashmir in the future, so ending this menace at the earliest would be beneficial.

 

[acid rain]

You are not looking at the other side of that coin. Yes, it is true that India has to spend a lot of resources in training and deploying forces, but what about Pakistan? Jehadis/terrorists/non-state-actors/whaever the latest name is, they don't grow on trees either. Their society has to pay a bigger price, though not monetarily, to train and equip these militants.

They spend money on recruiting and training and brainwashing their young men, who then die at the border. We spend money to recruit and train officers and jawans, who lead productive lives in society, as highly trained and motivated individuals. Which one seems to be a better deal?

Sure, the (financial) cost for India to train and deploy a soldier is more than the cost for them to train and send a militant. But all of their militants end up like what you see in those pics, while only a few of our soldiers get martyred. The soldiers we train then contribute to society in various ways, not only in the armed forces, but later in civilian jobs as well, since they are highly trained, disciplined and motivated. They also become breadwinners for their families, and their spouses and children depend on them. It is not like we have a major labour shortage - so why not spend our resources in paying the salaries and for the training of these people, rather than giving it away in stupid welfare schemes lie food bill and fuel subsidies?

Now another point - as I explained, their "strategic assets", on whom they spend their nation's meager resources, all get blown up wastefully even before reaching their destination. They spend not only money, but also most of their training and law enforcement resources on these so called assets, which means that they have that much less for ensuring law and order in their own country. The results of which are there for everyone to see. Also, these "strategic asset" fellows they train don't limit their expertise on India. After a while, they start biting the hand that fed them, and breed and multiply within their country, spawning so many terror groups there to overwhelm their own trainers.

So while India spends resources on training a cadre of highly qualified security professionals who contribute positively to the nation, they waste their money on training and arming assets that are eventually going to be liabilities.

With all that in mind, do you really think it is such a bad situation from an Indian POV? They famously tried to "bleed India by a thousand cuts", but who ended up bleeding more?

I dont subscribe to this wait and watch method, having a whole region and a long porous border in eternal turmoil takes away much needed resources and attention - its been two decades and the infiltration is only going to intensify further next year.

 

[janon]

He is right,

your logic though being right is not pro active, honestly who gives a FF where their economy, security goes or how much lives they lose at the hands of their own trained militants - what as Indians we should be concerned about is our own security, the lives and resources of our own forces and how do we end this never ending menace. I don't fancy our troops deployed and fighting for decades a low cost proxy war and always keep the tension brimming - a fast and decisive solution would be more desirable which allows us to carry on with developing our own populace.

One more factor is the geopolitical spread of wahhabism - or whatever they call it, and it's targeted to reach Kashmir in the future, so ending this menace at the earliest would be beneficial.

I dont subscribe to this wait and watch method, having a whole region and a long porous border in eternal turmoil takes away much needed resources and attention - its been two decades and the infiltration is only going to intensify further next year.

Well, do either of you have a solution other than what is being done? I know it doesn't seem as satisfying as ending everything in a grand conflict Hollywood style, but that's not how real life conflicts pan out. Especially these low key ones.

If you can offer a better way to tackle the menace, I'm all years, as I'm sure is the IA. Invading Pakistan and killing all terrorists is just not in the realm of possibility. (Even assuming that we can invade and occupy Pakistan, which is impossible, how do you propose to finish off all the bad guys there? They don't walk around with badges about their affiliation.)

So please tell me what alternative strategy you suggest.

 

[illusion8]

Well, do either of you have a solution other than what is being done? I know it doesn't seem as satisfying as ending everything in a grand conflict Hollywood style, but that's not how real life conflicts pan out. Especially these low key ones.

If you can offer a better way to tackle the menace, I'm all years, as I'm sure is the IA. Invading Pakistan and killing all terrorists is just not in the realm of possibility. (Even assuming that we can invade and occupy Pakistan, which is impossible, how do you propose to finish off all the bad guys there? They don't walk around with badges about their affiliation.)

So please tell me what alternative strategy you suggest.

Yeah sure, i'll surely post the brief once it gets approved by the MOD and the president -

The point is what would have China, Russia, Israel, US, UK etc have done if they were in our predicament. I don't claim that we are them - but then the question is why aren't we them, I don't claim that the solution is a simple one, it's not a step 1-2-3, it probably must be a numerous step method.

 

[janon]

Yeah sure, i'll surely post the brief once it gets approved by the MOD and the president -

The point is what would have China, Russia, Israel, US, UK etc have done if they were in our predicament. I don't claim that we are them - but then the question is why aren't we them, I don't claim that the solution is a simple one, it's not a step 1-2-3, it probably must be a numerous step method.

We can't say what they would have done, had they been in our predicament,, because none of them have been in our predicament. If I were to hazard a guess, they would have done exactly what we are doing. If any of these countries had a neighbor that was a significant military power, and there were jehadi groups training there hidden from public eye, what would those countries do? Wait for them to reach the border, and turkey shoot them.

Of all those countries you mentioned, only Russia has a remotely similar problem, with Chechen seperatists. Those chechens don't even have the backing of a strong, large nation like Pakistan, and Russia can go in there any time she wants, and has done so several times. And yet, those Chechen rebel terrorists are still alive and kicking, and have carried out spectacular terror attacks like the beslan school siege or the Moscow theater siege. So it seems that Russia is even less clueless about how to put them down, given that they can ride into the rebels' territories any time they want.

And Israel? Its neighbours are not as powerful relatively as Pakistan is, and yet has it been able to eliminate hizbollah or hamas or the N other terror groups? No, just like us, the Israelis too have built a wall on the borders, and eliminate anybody trying to sneak in. And today, look at where Israel is, and look at where countries that supported terrorists are - all of them battling for their own survival.

All in all India has done marvelously on countering state sponsored terrorism, given the fact that state that sponsors terrorism against India is large and powerful. Not an inch of land has been given away, and every terrorist who tries to infiltrate is issued a one way ticket to hell.

 

[dabong1]

This continous proxy war needs to end and its up to us to put an end to it - just deploying troops is not the solution.

And whats the "answer"?

 

[janon]

And whats the "answer"?

There really isn't one, other than what we are doing presently. Kill every foreign terrorist trying to sneak in, dispatch them to hell. Keep the borders secure (as has been done). Let the country that produces all those terrorists grapple with the consequences.

This ain't the 90s anymore. As long as we keep the borders securely impenetrable, Kashmir will be (and is) peaceful.