Indus script early form of Dravidian

[Jit]

So now the statement that Pakistanis are the fathers of Indians applies to both Northerners and Southerners.

you missed it by a 180 degrees, few thousand miles and a few centuries! About 2/3 of Pakistanis come of Indian ancestors and the other third from the Mogul / Afghan ancestors. The impression that many of you give though is that you'd have preferred to have a lineage from arabia but that's not to be. I understand the pain.

 

[FaujHistorian]

your assertions that Dravidians were more like Australian aborigines in untenable, to understand the sub continent history , one has to take into consideration Tamil literature , any perspective from Sanskrit or westerns sources is just speculative.
apart from script the seals of IVC provides evidence of Dravidian Tamil origins to IVC ,

How about we say it right

--- IVC may provide evidence of its impact on ancient Tamils.

Why you have to shift things East to West,

while in reality IVC is much older than pretty much everything else in the region.

 

[manlion]

then you should have called yourself India and Indian! you think Mr.Jinnah cheated yall of your legacy?

India - Indian is a misnomer and a british hangover, it didn't exist before the British colonisation, under Mughal rule it was ہندوستان .

may be that's why many Pakistanis in the restaurant business abroad call their restautants Indian restaurants

Most of them have Pakistani Urdu names e.g Bismillah, Shalimar, Daa'wat, Mehren etc and advertise as serving Indian / Pakistani cuisine . And for God sake , stop hijacking 'curry' which is Tamil in origin, who have the rights to extend it ownership to their Pakistani "Dravidian' cousins .

Curry was adopted and anglicised from the Tamil word kari(கறி) meaning 'sauce',[5] which is usually understood to mean vegetables and/or meat cooked with spices with or without a gravy.

Curry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Shark2]

I believe the script form moenjodaro predates the onee from ganga valley.

The main problem is that the Indus script can't be deciphered. But its a fact that the region of modern Pakistan
used the Maurya and Gupta writing systems from eastern India and did not produce their own during ancient period. And when Pakistan fell to the Arabs they started to use the Arab writing system.
More importantly there were barely any literature produced during ancient and medieval period in Pakistan like in eastern India
or southern India. The Sangam literature flourished in southern India and Prakrit and Sanskrit literature flourished in the Gangetic plain during the ancient period.

 

[srshkmr]

if you guys have enough time this should explain a lot of things

 

[INDIC]

My guess is, the people and cultures of the IVC merged with the people and cultures of the migrants from Central Asia, notably the Aryans, in the Ganga-Yamuna plains to create the Ganges plains civilization of Hinduism. A class structure based on caste system was created to differentiate the new arrivals and the old inhabitants, with the new arrivals occupying the higher castes and the descendants of IVC being relegated to the lower castes. Over centuries there has been lot of intermingling between the castes too, but generally it can be said that in modern times, people of lower castes are descendants of the people of IVC.. I suppose this has been proven genetically too..

Most of the people migrated Eastern in Ganges plains between 1900-1300BC, some stayed back in Sindh and West Punjab, trade with Mesopotamia declined and in Ganges plain they started cultivating rice instead of barley. The people of Vedic culture and indus valley civilization were same.

 

[INDIC]

If you said it to me in real life i would have beaten your gond a**. Pakstanis are living in Indus valley since thousands of years. Few have migrated to Tamil and other parts of India to civilize them and bring them out of jungles.

you came from outside from Central Asia, original inhabitants now live in Ganga valley. BTW Panini considered himself as son of Bharat, he is still the son of Bharat.

 

[INDIC]

‘Indus script early form of Dravidian’ - The Hindu

Iravatham Mahadevan, a well-known expert in Indian epigraphy, especially the Indus and Tamil Brahmi scripts, on Friday unveiled what he termed as his long years of studies on the Indus Valley script, demonstrably showing that the language of that once great civilisation “was an early form of the Dravidian.”

Making a presentation of his latest paper, “Dravidian Proof of the Indus Script via The Rig Veda: A Case Study” at the Roja Muthiah Research Library here, he explained with the help of ‘ideograms- a picture or a symbol that represents an idea or a concept-,’ that the “Indus language has been correctly identified” as an early form of the Dravidian script.

He said the methodology followed “is to identify the ideograms, find the Dravidian roots with the nearest literal meanings and interpret them through the rebus technique to get at the intended meanings.” (A ‘rebus’ is an allusional device that uses pictures to represent words or parts of words.)

This technique has helped in arriving at this conclusion, he said.

Explaining the frequent phrase of four signs (ABCD), as in the above picture, Mr. Mahadevan, who was earlier this year awarded the prestigious ‘Campbell Medal -2014’ by the Mumbai Asiatic Society, formerly Royal Asiatic Society, said that in short, the signs stood for ‘Merchant of the City’.

Referring to two divergent streams arising from the Indus Valley civilisation, he said, ‘’the Earliest Old Tamil, which has retained the Dravidian roots of the Indus phrase still, is firmly interlinked, but with modified meanings.”

String of names

The results reveal “a string of names and titles associated with the Pandian dynasty’’ whose remote ancestors were probably traders in the Indus civilisation, he said.

After the collapse of the Indus civilisation, he said in his paper that a section of the Indus Valley population had migrated to south India and the “the Indus Dravidian influenced the South Dravidian languages”. The earliest traces of such migratory influence are found in the ‘Old Tamil’.

The other stream that the epigraphist spoke of is the “Earliest Indo-Aryan (Rig Veda), which has inherited the Indus phrase through loan translations”. ‘Pusan,’ an early Vedic God, for instance, is identified as a deity of the trading community (Vaisya). The origin of the myths associated with ‘Pusan’ becomes clear “when their source is traced to the Indus phrase,” Mr. Mahadevan contended.

The results also show that “the descendants of the Indus civilisation adopted the Indo-Aryan speech and that there was a long gap of time between the Indus civilisation and the early Vedic culture,” said Mr. Mahadevan. The ‘Vedic Age’ succeeded the Indus civilisation and the Rig Veda “itself is a product of the composite culture”, said the scholar, who began studying the Indus script way back in 1968.

Mr. Mahadevan further explained that the results of the discovery, using the above technique, “are summarised in a Grid of correspondences’, adding, “the Grid constitutes the proof of the discovery”.

“I have not claimed to have deciphered the Indus script. But the present paper appears to me the most productive I have so far written”, he claimed in his written paper, adding that from the “level of mere evidence”, it has now “attained the level of proof.”

These are mere theories, the Indus Valley was founded by same people who founded the Vedic culture and after the Ghaggar-Hakra(Rigvedic Saraswati) dried around 1900BC and thus people migrated eastward in plains of Ganges. about 90% of population abandoned Indus Valley sites towards plains of Ganges.

 

[manlion]

How about we say it right

--- IVC may provide evidence of its impact on ancient Tamils.

Why you have to shift things East to West,

while in reality IVC is much older than pretty much everything else in the region.

IVC had no impact on Tamils as it was a Tamil civilization, the shift was from south (of Sri Lanka) to north (of Pakistan/Iran/Iraq) after the tsunami like deluge , mentioned in ancient Tamil literature, contrary to out of Africa theory ..

 

[INDIC]

that's BS

Indus valley civilization could never be enslaved and made into shudras by the Hindu Brahmins and other high castes.

Dravadians were more like Australian aborignies living in Ganga valley
Unfortunately they didn't jhave a developed system and civilization and
thus easy pray for the invading Brahmins and other high castes. .

You also believe in colonial marxist crap.

 

[manlion]

These are mere theories, the Indus Valley was founded by same people who founded the Vedic culture and after the Ghaggar-Hakra(Rigvedic Saraswati) dried around 1900BC and thus people migrated eastward in plains of Ganges. about 90% of population abandoned Indus Valley sites towards plains of Ganges.

theres no evidence to support your hindutva theory or mythological - vedic culture, read the article before commenting, saves my time

 

[INDIC]

theres no evidence to support your hindutva theory - vedic culture

No Hindutva theory, but proved by archaeology by Pakistani, Indian and foreign historians. Pakistani archaeologists found that around 80-92% sites in Indus plains were abandoned during 1900-1300BC while at the same time Indian archaeologists found in India that there is 4 times increase in Indus Valley sites in East Punjab, Haryana and West UP, showing most of the population migrated to Ganges plains. Other historians found that no new race entered India.

The discovery of Ghaggar-Hakra being Saraswati and dried around 2000BC proves Rigveda belongs to Indus Valley period of even older, Infact the Indus Valley is the same Sapta Sindhu of Rigveda.

 

[manlion]

No Hindutva theory, but proved by archaeology by Pakistani, Indian and foreign historians. Pakistani archaeologists found that around 75-90% sites in Indus plains were abandoned during 1900-1300BC while at the same time Indian archaeologists found in India that there is 4 times increase in Indus Valley sites in East Punjab, Haryana and West UP, showing most of the population migrated to Ganges plains. Other historians found that no new race entered India.

The discovery of Ghaggar-Hakra being Saraswati and dried around 2000BC proves Rigveda belongs to Indus Valley period of even older, Infact the Indus Valley is the same Sapta Sindhu of Rigveda.

so what happened to Hindutvas 's Out of India theory ? Sorry we are not on the same page , your history is stuck in 2000 BC but mine goes beyond 3000 BC

Instead of coming up your Hindutva fantasies, proof that script /seals of IVC was not Dravidian, thank you .

 

[INDIC]

so what happened to Hindutvas 's Out of India theory ? Sorry we are not on the same page , your history is stuck in 2000 BC but mine goes beyond 3000 BC

who is mine? BTW here is the correct periodization of Indus Valley civilization and see how it developed into the Vedic culture.

Date range (BCE) Phase Era
7000-5500 Mehrgarh I (aceramic Neolithic) Early Food Producing Era
5500-3300 Mehrgarh II-VI (ceramic Neolithic) Regionalisation Era
5500-2600
3300-2600 Early Harappan
3300-2800 Harappan 1 (Ravi Phase)
2800-2600 Harappan 2 (Kot Diji Phase, Nausharo I, Mehrgarh VII)
2600-1900 Mature Harappan (Indus Valley Civilization) Integration Era
2600-2450 Harappan 3A (Nausharo II)
2450-2200 Harappan 3B
2200-1900 Harappan 3C
1900-1300 Late Harappan (Cemetery H); Ochre Coloured Pottery Localisation Era
1900-1700 Harappan 4
1700-1300 Harappan 5
1300-300 Painted Gray Ware, Northern Black Polished Ware (Iron Age) Indo-Gangetic Tradition

 

[INDIC]

Mauryan era script was Prakrit. Prakrit was the script usually associated with Buddhism. Were Hindus scriptures written in Prakrit too?

Prakrit was not a script but language that originated from Vedic Sanskrit and the refined form of it was called Classical Sanskrit while the unrefined form was Prakrit or Apabhramsha(just like Italians have standard Latin and Vulgar Latin). Mauryan promoted Prakrit for Buddhist literature and Buddhists also used hybrid Sanskrit for Buddhist literature.