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Indus script early form of Dravidian

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that's BS

Indus valley civilization could never be enslaved and made into shudras by the Hindu Brahmins and other high castes.

Dravadians were more like Australian aborignies living in Ganga valley
Unfortunately they didn't jhave a developed system and civilization and
thus easy pray for the invading Brahmins and other high castes. .
This is doubtful. Only the Indians from the Indo Gangetic plain and southern India produced great civilizations and
had their own writing systems. Thats why the greatest Dynasties of South Asia were established in the
Gangetic Plain and southern India. On the other hand Pakistan used the writing system of the Maurya and Gupta
Dynasties from eastern India during ancient period and today they use the Arab writing system.
The oldest literature of South Asia are the Sanskrit and Prakrit literature of the Maurya and Gupta Dynasties from
eastern India and the Sangam Literature of the Tamil people. On the other hand Pakistan never produced their
own literature in the past.
 
The people of indus valley civilisation were dravidians.
err .. rather absurd way to word the conclusion.

Since the author admits that the Indus script and culture came first, the conclusion (assuming his findings regarding the relationship between the Indus script and contemporary dravidian languages is correct), would be better presented as "Dravidian script is possibly a sub-set of the Indus script", which in turn could mean the following:

1. Travelers from the regions that are now considered Dravidian came in contact with the IIVC and brought back the knowledge of the IVC to their people.

2. Migration from the Indus Valley civilization to the regions that are now considered primarily Dravidian resulted in the IVC culture being absorbed.

How on earth you managed to travel backwards in time to claim that a peoples and culture that existed thousands of years before the Dravidians are "Dravidians" beats me, but then this is Indian history and the Indian media, so anything is possible I suppose ..
 
The oldest literature of South Asia are the Sanskrit and Prakrit literature of the Maurya and Gupta Dynasties from
eastern India and the Sangam Literature of the Tamil people.
What about Vedas and Upanishads from the Vedic periods?
 
err .. rather absurd way to word the conclusion.

Since the author admits that the Indus script and culture came first, the conclusion (assuming his findings regarding the relationship between the Indus script and contemporary dravidian languages is correct), would be better presented as "Dravidian script is possibly a sub-set of the Indus script", which in turn could mean the following:

1. Travelers from the regions that are now considered Dravidian came in contact with the IIVC and brought back the knowledge of the IVC to their people.

2. Migration from the Indus Valley civilization to the regions that are now considered primarily Dravidian resulted in the IVC culture being absorbed.

How on earth you managed to travel backwards in time to claim that a peoples and culture that existed thousands of years before the Dravidians are "Dravidians" beats me, but then this is Indian history and the Indian media, so anything is possible I suppose ..
So, who were the people of IVC and what happened to them? Who are the modern day descendants of the people of IVC, assuming that they were not completely decimated.
 
These were passed down orally from one generation to the next and were only written down during the Maurya and Gupta
period.
Mauryan era script was Prakrit. Prakrit was the script usually associated with Buddhism. Were Hindus scriptures written in Prakrit too?
 
Mauryan era script was Prakrit. Prakrit was the script usually associated with Buddhism. Were Hindus scriptures written in Prakrit too?
Its true that in the early period the Hindus used Sanskrit and Buddhists used Prakrit but there were also Buddhist scholars
who used Sanskrit and Hindu scholars who used Prakrit. The rulers of the Satavahana Dynasty were mostly Hindus who also patronized Buddhism but they used Prakrit as the court language. And modern Marathi also originated from Prakrit.
 
My guess is, the people and cultures of the IVC merged with the people and cultures of the migrants from Central Asia, notably the Aryans, in the Ganga-Yamuna plains to create the Ganges plains civilization of Hinduism. A class structure based on caste system was created to differentiate the new arrivals and the old inhabitants, with the new arrivals occupying the higher castes and the descendants of IVC being relegated to the lower castes. Over centuries there has been lot of intermingling between the castes too, but generally it can be said that in modern times, people of lower castes are descendants of the people of IVC.. I suppose this has been proven genetically too..
 
Genetic Study Reveals Origin of India's Caste System
By Tia Ghose, Staff Writer | August 08, 2013

The caste system in South Asia — which rigidly separates people into high, middle and lower classes — may have been firmly entrenched by about 2,000 years ago, a new genetic analysis suggests.

Researchers found that people from different genetic populations in India began mixing about 4,200 years ago, but the mingling stopped around 1,900 years ago, according to the analysis published today (Aug. 8) in the American Journal of Human Genetics.

Combining this new genetic information with ancient texts, the results suggest that class distinctions emerged 3,000 to 3,500 years ago, and caste divisions became strict roughly two millennia ago.

Though relationships between people of different social groups was once common, there was a "transformation where most groups now practice endogamy," or marry within their group, said study co-author Priya Moorjani, a geneticist at Harvard University.

Ancestral populations

Hindus in India have historically been born into one of four major castes, with myriad subdivisions within each caste. Even today, in some parts of the country, marriage outside of one's caste is forbidden and those in the outcast, or "untouchable" group are discriminated against and prohibited from participating in religious rituals. (The Indian government has outlawed certain types of discrimination against the lowest classes.)

But when and why this system evolved has always been a bit murky, said Michael Witzel, a South Asian studies researcher at Harvard University, who was not involved in the work.

Moorjani's past research revealed that all people in India trace their heritage to two genetic groups: An ancestral North Indian group originally from the Near East and the Caucasus region, and another South Indian group that was more closely related to people on the Andaman Islands.

Today, everyone in India has DNA from both groups. "It's just the proportion of ancestry that you have that varies across India," Moorjani told LiveScience.

To determine exactly when these ancient groups mixed, the team analyzed DNA from 371 people who were members of 73 groups throughout the subcontinent.

Aside from finding when the mixing started and stopped, the researchers also found the mixing was thorough, with even the most isolated tribes showing ancestry from both groups.

Period of transition

Researchers aren't sure which groups of ancient people lived in Indiaprior to 4,200 years ago, but Moorjani suspects the two groups lived side-by-side for centuries without intermarrying.

Archaeological evidence indicates that the groups began intermarrying during a time of great upheaval. The Indus Valley civilization, which spanned much of modern-day North India and Pakistan, was waning, and huge migrations were occurring across North India. [History's Most Overlooked Mysteries]

Ancient texts also reveal clues about the period.

The Rigveda, a nearly 3,500-year-old collection of hymns written in Sanskrit, a North Indian language, mentions chieftains with South Indian names.

"So there is some sort of mixture or intermarriage," Witzel told LiveScience.

Early on, there were distinct classes of people — the priests, the nobility and the common people — but no mention of segregation or occupational restrictions. By about 3,000 years ago, the texts mention a fourth, lowest class: the Sudras. But it wasn't until about 100 B.C. that a holy text called the Manusmruti explicitly forbade intermarriage across castes.

The study doesn't suggest that either the ancestral North or South Indian group formed the bulk of the upper or lower castes, Witzel said.

Rather, when caste divisions hardened, any type of intermarriage was sharply curtailed, leading to much less mixing overall.
 
This is doubtful. Only the Indians from the Indo Gangetic plain and southern India produced great civilizations and
had their own writing systems. Thats why the greatest Dynasties of South Asia were established in the
Gangetic Plain and southern India. On the other hand Pakistan used the writing system of the Maurya and Gupta
Dynasties from eastern India during ancient period and today they use the Arab writing system.
The oldest literature of South Asia are the Sanskrit and Prakrit literature of the Maurya and Gupta Dynasties from
eastern India and the Sangam Literature of the Tamil people. On the other hand Pakistan never produced their
own literature in the past.

I believe the script form moenjodaro predates the onee from ganga valley.
 
Thats not true. Many of cases we have Central Asian nomads, who dont have long developed civilization defeat sophisticated ones. Like Mongols to China, Iran, some Arabs, etc, etc, etc.

My reference was to civilization of monjodaro.

Pleasse do not joke by mentioning nomads.

Thanks
 
Pakistanis only have similarities with couple of Indian groups, Indian punjabis and tamils.
I thought Pakistanis had similarities only with Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Afghans and other central Asians.
What is the similarity between Pakistanis and Tamils? Language? culture? genetics?
 
This is doubtful. Only the Indians from the Indo Gangetic plain and southern India produced great civilizations and
had their own writing systems. Thats why the greatest Dynasties of South Asia were established in the
Gangetic Plain and southern India. On the other hand Pakistan used the writing system of the Maurya and Gupta
Dynasties from eastern India during ancient period and today they use the Arab writing system.
The oldest literature of South Asia are the Sanskrit and Prakrit literature of the Maurya and Gupta Dynasties from
eastern India and the Sangam Literature of the Tamil people. On the other hand Pakistan never produced their
own literature in the past.

Beta Panini was born in Khyber Pakhtunwa, Pakistan before likes of Maurya even came to existance. Ancient Pakistani from Multan also later on discovered zero. We gave your gond ancestors Rig Veda, from which you guys copied and produced your own literature. But original source remained from Pakistan.
 
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