Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Sure, maybe, couldn't hurt, and I didn't say don't need, I said couldn't handle one. We need more pilots for helicopters, more marines, more officers and NCOs and an academy for them(maybe not a separate one, but they need a place to be able to learn and pass on the knowledge, the navy is still in the process of constructing a naval aviation academy for carrier operations, so maybe this could be included, but it would be years if not a decade before the first graduate rolls out.

Not to mention we need ports, maintenance crew, doctrine, and much much more.

Did I also mention helicopter shortage? Z-20(blackhawk+) is somewhere in the jungle, 20, 30 ton helicopters all need engines, and all are on the drawing board. Then there are talk of a joint program with the Russians on a vertical take off fighter, but may just be hot air.

We do have versions of those helicopter now, but we need 21st century ones.

No, we are too behind for a LHD, even if we did have it we can't use it.

BTW, the easiest part is constructing it, that is very simple.

Experience takes time. 2050 is not a random date we picked.


That's an LPD, Landing Platform Dock, ours is about twice the size of yours. Ours can transport about a battalion, yours maybe a company. It should be able to handle 2-3 helicopters.

Indonesia needs much work before the navy can be potent.




sure, but it's difficult, again, goes back to the officer core, while Americans set the standards for AEGIS ships, we are catching up, the biggest problem is our officers may not be ready for such a ship and it would take sometime before we can use it effectively.

One of the major problems for the Chinese army is the toys are more and more there now, but the doctrines, strategies have not caught up. The problem of using gun like a stick is common place.



it's more than two, it's a lot more, though like any big gathering of people, it's really the minority that's taking part, I'm not sure what the other nations are doing, if it's arms race, then they are doing it wrong.



Indonesia Raya!

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forums are for discussions, what does it matter what. Especially since this is still on topic.

If Indonesia wants to do the leapfrog as well, you are going to have to address the issue of offciers too, though America isn't embargoing you, so maybe you can sent people to study.


The only good one, bang for buck is the type 56 corvette that can be customized like a Porsche.[/quote]

We have sent a lot of army officers and soldier to go study and doing research field in China, Russia, US of A, Germany and South Korea or even Israel (through clandestine operation). We have build and opening National Defense University, Armed Forces Research Center, revamped and reform our military training and education curriculum and trying to re balancing and reforming our structure forces and strengthen the roles of Non-Commission Officers and build a much more capable and mobile forces. The process is still in progress, and you can see how much our armed forces oriented themselves after a long history of Indonesian Armed forces to be formed only to fight guerrilla forces

For the Corvette, don't worry we have bought a license to build 20 SIGMA class light frigate from Netherland and right now our Shipyard in progress to build another 2 SIGMA class PKR

Good, first, we must fill the short range AA. Later we should acquire the longer version.



I like 056 OPV. It is a small, cheap but can be considered as heavy weight with her weaponry pack. I dunno about the others though. Indonesia has made C705 as their standard AShM for their Missile Boat 40 and 60 I guess. So another China - Indonesia military cooperation is not impossible. The problem is, that we have already have Sigma. I dunno what can 056 OPV add to the firepower department when we have Sigma as our Corvette department. Maybe the cost effective? Like Sigma is expensive. It is a good ship, but expensive. Maybe a mix of Sigma and 056 OPV can give more punch to Indonesian Navy? The elite can get Sigma, while the regular get 056 OPV? (since 056 OPV will definitely cheaper than Sigma) What do you think guys? Mado? Nihonjin, Genesis, Gennaro?

Why I like 056 OPV? That's because of her Chinese RAM (FL-3000n?)

SIGMA and type 56 fill the same roles, but is not like i am against the idea but for small craft such as 80's meter warship i thought Indonesian Shipyard can build themselves or just buy the license if China can sell them like the Netherland did

 

[Brainsucker]

SIGMA and type 56 fill the same roles, but is not like i am against the idea but for small craft such as 80's meter warship i thought Indonesian Shipyard can build themselves or just buy the license if China can sell them like the Netherland did

If we have already have a contract for 20 sigma, then maybe we don't need 056 OPV. It's not that Sigma is better than 056 OPV, but well, we have already have pay the bill BTW, can you provide us with the Mistral that we put on our sigma? I'm curious. If we don't have any plan to put Mistral on our ship, what about putting FL-3000N on them? it will definitely help to boost our CIWS range of SAM on our Corvette.

What about 4000 tonnes and above Frigate? I think FREMM is good, Hitakaze is also good, but 054A is definitely is also good. They are good choice of our Navy. But FREMM is expensive, and it is 6000 tonnes; while Hitakaze and 054A are definitely cheaper but still good and powerful. I myself prefer 054A (although I prefer it the 054 hull but with 052D VLS, AESA, and FL-3000N lol) Dunno about the other. If Japan can give their Hitakaze for free, of course we will accept it with open arm, lol. (well, you're about to retire it, Nihonjin. Giving it to your friend as a good gesture is better, isn't it? :p)

 

[Genesis]

I like 056 OPV. It is a small, cheap but can be considered as heavy weight with her weaponry pack. I dunno about the others though. Indonesia has made C705 as their standard AShM for their Missile Boat 40 and 60 I guess. So another China - Indonesia military cooperation is not impossible. The problem is, that we have already have Sigma. I dunno what can 056 OPV add to the firepower department when we have Sigma as our Corvette department. Maybe the cost effective? Like Sigma is expensive. It is a good ship, but expensive. Maybe a mix of Sigma and 056 OPV can give more punch to Indonesian Navy? The elite can get Sigma, while the regular get 056 OPV? (since 056 OPV will definitely cheaper than Sigma) What do you think guys? Mado? Nihonjin, Genesis, Gennaro?

Why I like 056 OPV? That's because of her Chinese RAM (FL-3000n?)

depends on the role you want her to perform, if all you need it for is coastal defense, then it's the best, but if you want it to be a heavy weight, then a bigger vessel is needed.

Though I have to say, the European ship market is disappointing. The French Mistral and the Brits type 45 or something is very, disappointing. It lacks the innovation the Brits use to have like the dreadnaught. The Europeans are living on reputation now. Due to economic realities they have to cut back on the size and capabilities of their ships.

The Netherlands makes good ships, I mean if what you need is something that's flashy and not very effective. Reason isn't they don't work, but it doesn't work for the role they are built, or needed to fill. Too small to handle big tasks, too big to be cost effective.

For ship building I would recommend, Chinese, Japanese, Korean and American.

To look at top of the line ships, Zumwalt, something the great, Atago class are far and away the best in its class.


For Indonesia, it's actually better to build cheap 056 for coastal defense, you got a lot of coast, and then get one or two dedicated task force for special missions. It's too much to expect Indonesia to be able to project any power or even defend against a super power anytime in the foreseeable future. The logical, though often not used, except China, is just neglect it until you can, build up economy first, and let the rest take care of itself.

Chinese navy was neglected for the better part of 2 decades, the father of modern day navy was very angry because of it, he wanted a carrier, but the official line was, whoever talk carrier is a traitor to the republic. Economic interests must come first.

The key is do what you need to do and go at your own pace, if you let other people set the pace, it's not going to turn out good.

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

The guided-missile destroyer USS Stethem (DDG 63) leads a group of Indonesian navy ships in formation

3 Van Speijk Frigates and 1 Sigma Corvette

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

Kopassus special force basic training : prisoner camp survival training.

 

[Brainsucker]

btw Jakartan, can you provide us the news about our Sigma Frigate (not the Corvette, but the Frigate) thanks

 

[Nike]

asemmm pics nya ra metu

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

btw Jakartan, can you provide us the news about our Sigma Frigate (not the Corvette, but the Frigate) thanks

all i know that the production of the 2nd ship already started. lets hope we can receive the 1st one by 2016.

 

[NarThoD]

dont forget to thank China. Because of her aggression, we wouldn't modernize our military in such speed

 

[Brainsucker]

dont forget to thank China. Because of her aggression, we wouldn't modernize our military in such speed

oh, so because of China aggression, we wouldn't modernize our military?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

oh, so because of China aggression, we wouldn't modernize our military?

It's just coincidence really. Some outside observer sees our rearmament & assume it was as a reaction to the Chinese.

 

[Brainsucker]

It's just coincidence really. Some outside observer sees our rearmament & assume it was as a reaction to the Chinese.

No, what make me confuse is, that because of China Aggression, we decide to not modernize our military. Isn't that make you confuse too?

 

[Nike]

It's just coincidence really. Some outside observer sees our rearmament & assume it was as a reaction to the Chinese.

except the facts we are still using Soviet era armor and weapons till this very day, oh gosh, i would love if they parading M101, M202 howitzer along with AMX-13, Saracen, Ferret, BRDM, BTR-40 and so on.

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

do we have some kind of "Area 51" here or this is just a prank or photoshop ?

 

[Indos]

RI, South Korea to reach
deal on phase II of KFX/
IFX fighter jet

Yohanna Ririhena, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | World | Thu, October 02 2014, 9:41 PM

Indonesia and South Korea are expected to reach an agreement on the second phase of the joint development and production of the KFX/ IFX fighter jet, a step that will mark the epitome of the two countries’ strategic partnership, the South Korean envoy said.

The three phases of developing the KFX/IFX fighter jet are technology development (TD), engineering and manufacturing development (EMD) and joint production and marketing.

The TD phase was concluded in December 2012, which saw a number of engineers from state-owned airframer PT Dirgantara Indonesia (PT DI) and officers from the Indonesian Air Force going to South Korea to discuss a number of development issues with their South Korean counterparts.

South Korean Ambassador to Indonesia Cho Tai-young said that negotiations on the project had intensified, raising hopes that an agreement-in-principal would be reached soon. “If the negotiation runs smoothly, it could be concluded by next month,” Cho said when asked the exact time for the agreement.

Cho, who assumed his post in July this year, noted that the two countries had developed a very close relationship in defense industry cooperation since the 1970s. Therefore, the jet fighter project marked the epitome of the Indonesian-South Korean strategic partnership as the two countries had committed to design and develop a whole new jet fighter.

“I will try hard during my term here to realize what has been planned,” Cho told The Jakarta Post during an interview ahead of South Korean’s Oct. 2 National Day.

The two countries signed a letter of intent (LoI) to develop the KFX/ IFX on March 9, 2009. The agreement was signed in 2012 by President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and his then South Korean counterpart Lee Myung-bak.

Indonesia will pay up to 20 percent of US$ 5 billion project, while the South Korean government and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) will pay 60 percent and 20 percent respectively.

The KFX/IFX fighter is envisioned as a next-generation fighter aircraft for 2020, designed as a single-seat, twin-engine jet fighter with capabilities below the USmade Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II, but surpassing Lockheed’s F-16 Fighting Falcon.

Beside the KFX/IFX project, the two countries will keep exchanging information about weapon systems and defense products to find future opportunities for cooperation.

Cho mentioned the Third Defense Industry Cooperation Committee meeting in Jakarta, when Indonesian and Korean defense companies presented their products and discussed future cooperation. The South Korean government, Cho added, had a deeper understanding of the Indonesian policy on defense industry promotion.

This is the reason why Seoul would like to focus on transfer of technology and joint development programs like the KFX/IFX. After the completion of the KFX/IFX development, both countries may establish a joint venture. “There are a lot of possibilities,” he said.

South Korea has developed various weapon systems that are verified by the country’s armed forces. It has also imported weapons from advanced countries.

In this regard, South Korea could assist Indonesia on various issues, including sharing experiences in order to minimize trial-and-error with various weapon systems. “I would like to say that the Republic of Korea is the best partner for Indonesia,” he said.

On the procurement of weapon systems, Cho said South Korea bought eight CN-235 medium transport airplanes made by PT DI for the South Korean Air Force. So far, there has been no plan to procure more from Indonesia. “But we will continue the weaponry defense system cooperation,” he added. The Korean Coast Guard has also received four CN-235 maritime patrol aircraft from PT DI.

On the building of three Chang Bogo-class submarines, Cho said, it would be conducted in South Korea and Indonesian technicians will go there for training. Engineers from state-owned shipyard PT PAL Indonesia are being sent to South Korea to prepare for the building of the third submarine, which is planned to be done at PT PAL in Surabaya.

» RI, S. Korea are set to reach agreement to soon start the second phase of KFX/IFX jet fighter program
» Both countries are also involved in other programs, such as building three Chang Bogo-class submarines

RI, South Korea to reach deal on phase II of KFX/ IFX fighter jet | The Jakarta Post