Indonesia Defence Forum

[Whizzack]

All clear.. nothing to see here...

Israel Ingin Buka Hubungan dengan RI, Kemlu Membantah

Israel tengah berupaya untuk melakukan normalisasi hubungan dengan Indonesia dan Oman, setelah berhasil melakukan normalisasi dengan sejumlah negara.

www.cnnindonesia.com

 

[antonius123]

Since when PDIP ruling government who have been very vocal enforcing Palestine independence freeing themselves from the colonialist in the U.N., ever use "brotherhood among moslem" as their political reasoning?

They may not see it that way, but for political reason they must care moslem consideration.

 

[Fl0gger]

Just back to the topic please...

 

[whatintarnation]

All clear.. nothing to see here...

Israel Ingin Buka Hubungan dengan RI, Kemlu Membantah

Israel tengah berupaya untuk melakukan normalisasi hubungan dengan Indonesia dan Oman, setelah berhasil melakukan normalisasi dengan sejumlah negara.

www.cnnindonesia.com

See, what did I tell you.

Props to our Foreign Ministry for standing their ground.

 

[Ruhnama]

The gov will be shooting themselves in the foot if this is true... Crazy!

Our formal stance was that we will acknowledge and normalize relations with Israel, provided that the 2-State solution be implemented with Jerusalem (or at least the eastern part) as the Palestinian capital.

Seems like there's a lot of pressure to our gov regarding this issue recently... and the pressure is probably not only from traditional Israeli allies such as the US and Europe, but also likely from Arab states like Saudi Arabia and UAE... Even Pakistan seems to be under pressure to recognize Israel too...

Well... perhaps F-35s are no longer a distant dream in this case..

Just think about internal turmoil or what the heck like that....
Protest and more protest

 

[nametag]

Many people even Indonesians themselves totally misunderstand the reason why we refuse to acknowledge Israel.

It's NOT about religion. Far from it.

It's purely because we consider Israel as the colonialist who by force conquering Palestine exactly the same way the Dutch colonialized us for centuries.

may i remind everybody that the last time we bought israeli weapon (drone), the chairman of the parliament defence commission (komisi I DPR) is mahfudz siddiq from PKS. He knew exactly where it came from but there were no rejection and he even supported it. So even the perceived and the so called brotherhood party by pdip and their supporter didn't have problem with buying from israel albeit with limited media exposure. infact at that time it was the opposition/pdip who usually reject any weapon purchase from the government. so i think the problem is not religion, but money and politics

 

[Gundala]

The one sees Israel as the colonialist is the one who sees this issue from religion point of view such as: "brotherhood" among moslem.

Israel is the colonialist - thats a fact. Should Palestine be free? Yes, Should we recognize Israel? Yes.
Thats my take, the more I look into history of Israel, Palestine and surrounding states the more I can confirm that most of time we have partial history and mislead information about one event to the other due to political reason. Even trying to dig history site in one country can be complicated because it has to be scrutinized by govt officials. And if the site tells the history that can confirm the "other" side of story then they bury it back

so i think the problem is not religion, but money and politics

Yup

Should we be free to buy Israel defence or work with them to build our own defense industry capability and capacity? Hell yea...
We did buy from them, Mossad did train our intellegent officials at the beginning of Soeharto era, we did buy A-4 from them, we need to stop fooling ourselves

 

[Alpha_PK]

@Gundala

What do Indonesians think about Israel?
Like do they hate them as much as the arabs hate Israelis?

Or is it neutral?

 

[Indos]

@Gundala

What do Indonesians think about Israel?
Like do they hate them as much as the arabs hate Israelis?

Or is it neutral?

Indonesian is a supporter of Palestinian, it is so clear, our government policy on the issue is a representation of Indonesian general public feeling. Even under secular PDI-P party, Indonesia administration is very vocal in supporting Palestinian, not to mention their work during UN Security Council membership. We are a democratic country, not a dictatorial regime.

Just check on the comment section and translate it using Google Translate. It has 370.000 Indonesian viewer.

 

[Alpha_PK]

@Indos nice to see.

You are the largest muslim country so it's good you're supporting the Palestinians

 

[antonius123]

Israel is the colonialist - thats a fact. Should Palestine be free? Yes, Should we recognize Israel? Yes.
Thats my take, the more I look into history of Israel, Palestine and surrounding states the more I can confirm that most of time we have partial history and mislead information about one event to the other due to political reason. Even trying to dig history site in one country can be complicated because it has to be scrutinized by govt officials. And if the site tells the history that can confirm the "other" side of story then they bury it back

Well, it is very debatable.
According to this journal:
The Myth of Israel as a Colonialist Entity: An Instrument of Political Warfare to Delegitimize the Jewish State

The Myth of Israel as a Colonialist Entity: An Instrument of Political Warfare to Delegitimize the Jewish State on JSTOR

Dore Gold, The Myth of Israel as a Colonialist Entity: An Instrument of Political Warfare to Delegitimize the Jewish State, Jewish Political Studies Review, Vol. 23, No. 3/4, Addressing the Components of the Delegitimization of Israel (Fall 2011), pp. 84-90

www.jstor.org

Because:

1. Israel already existed long before and Jews already been settling there in Palestine region since thousand years ago long before so called Palestine nation exist; it is arab people that migrate and settling down slowly in the region, but even so Jewish people are still existant.
2. Even modern Israel established before Palestine state exist.
3. Palestine state was established as reaction to Israel state years after Israel state established

So according to these facts and logic, it is not Israel that ripping up Palestine but the other way round.

 

[Whizzack]

Welcome kamerads... Enjoy our hospitality...

Russian ships sure looks "muscular" compared to western ships..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1338655900555309063

 

[Whizzack]

Well, it is very debatable.
According to this journal:
The Myth of Israel as a Colonialist Entity: An Instrument of Political Warfare to Delegitimize the Jewish State

The Myth of Israel as a Colonialist Entity: An Instrument of Political Warfare to Delegitimize the Jewish State on JSTOR

Dore Gold, The Myth of Israel as a Colonialist Entity: An Instrument of Political Warfare to Delegitimize the Jewish State, Jewish Political Studies Review, Vol. 23, No. 3/4, Addressing the Components of the Delegitimization of Israel (Fall 2011), pp. 84-90

www.jstor.org

Because:

1. Israel already existed long before and Jews already been settling there in Palestine region since thousand years ago long before so called Palestine nation exist; it is arab people that migrate and settling down slowly in the region, but even so Jewish people are still existant.
2. Even modern Israel established before Palestine state exist.
3. Palestine state was established as reaction to Israel state years after Israel state established

So according to these facts and logic, it is not Israel that ripping up Palestine but the other way round.

Jews, Christians, Muslims has been around the area for thousands of years, that is fact... However it is also fact that in the mid 20th century the native Muslim population is the majority there... actually Muslims has been the majority in the area since about the 12th century, and before them it was a Christian majority...

The modern Israeli state was a creation of European Jews, mostly European refugees and Zionists, and not by the native Palestinian Jews... The same refugees that was previously escaping from the Nazi genocide and given refuge in these lands, but instead of being grateful later turned against the native Palestinian population and took their lands instead...

So you see the problem here..? You got to help a bunch of people in trouble, giving them shelter and refuge... but after things settled down instead of moving back (to Europe or wherever they came from), they take your homes, your lands, stripping you of your rights and turning you into a refugee in your own land... and later claiming that they are the rightful owner of the land, even though these people has not been living in the region for hundreds or thousands of years... that's the real issue here...

 

[antonius123]

Jews, Christians, Muslims has been around the area for thousands of years, that is fact... However it is also fact that in the mid 20th century the native Muslim population is the majority there... actually Muslims has been the majority in the area since about the 12th century, and before them it was a Christian majority...

They already proposed 2 separate state: Jewish State for Jews and whoever want to be their citizen, and Arab State for the moslem who doesn't want to be part of Jewish state.

Therefore there should be no so called colonialism since the beginning of the Israel state established.

The modern Israeli state was a creation of European Jews, mostly European refugees and Zionists, and not by the native Palestinian Jews... The same refugees that was previously escaping from the Nazi genocide and given refuge in these lands, but instead of being grateful later turned against the native Palestinian population and took their lands instead...

It doesn't matter how Israel state establish including through creation of European Jews, as long as supported by people and they don't annexed land of the established state .

So you see the problem here..? You got to help a bunch of people in trouble, giving them shelter and refuge... but after things settled down instead of moving back (to Europe or wherever they came from), they take your homes, your lands, stripping you of your rights and turning you into a refugee in your own land... and later claiming that they are the rightful owner of the land, even though these people has not been living in the region for hundreds or thousands of years... that's the real issue here...

Arab countries did not help anything. It was jews organization and British administration that help Jews survivors from holocaust to immigrate and settled in the British mandatory land.

The problem is: arab countries cannot accept the presence of Jewish state in the middle east from the beginning, and they created a Palestinian liberation movements to disrupt Jewish state.

Helping Jewish holocoust victim and rejecting Jewish state is 2 opposite attitude actually.

 

[Whizzack]

They already proposed 2 separate state: Jewish State for Jews and whoever want to be their citizen, and Arab State for the moslem who doesn't want to be part of Jewish state.

Therefore there should be no so called colonialism since the beginning of the Israel state established

Well.. in that case where's the Palestinian state then...? hmm..?
Regardless, you can't just come to someone else's land and suddenly claim 30%, 50%, or 90% of them, and force the inhabitants to accept it.

It doesn't matter how Israel state establish including through creation of European Jews, as long as supported by people and they don't annexed land of the established state .

Of course it matters! Supported by whose people exactly...? If it's supported only by the invading people then it's nothing but occupation.. Did the native Palestinian people supported the creation of an Israeli state in their land..?

Helping Jewish holocoust victim and rejecting Jewish state is 2 opposite attitude actually

Nonsense.. One can help Jews without having to support a Jewish state, no different to one helping Muslim without supporting Saudi Arabia, or helping a Chinese without supporting PRC or Taiwan..