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I am glad I voted for Jokowi, instead of Prabowo. It seems true for some one who is pro KFX/IFX program and local defense industry like me, he really serves and inline with my interest.

What ever Prabowo does with his meeting with France and US, it lets to Jokowi who will approve any big ticket acquisition. We know what happen when he heard about 2 billion USD Osprey order intention right ???
 
SU-35, Rafale, 2nd hand Eurofighter from Austria, and now F-15/F-18? after having F-16. Wow
 
I am glad I voted for Jokowi, instead of Prabowo. It seems true for some one who is pro KFX/IFX program and local defense industry like me, he really serves and inline with my interest.

What ever Prabowo does with his meeting with France and US, it lets to Jokowi who will approve any big ticket acquisition. We know what happen when he heard about 2 billion USD Osprey order intention right ???

Well.. at this point all of this is still just offerings... although some are already in a more advanced stage of negotiations... I also hope that whatever we chose now for our short - medium term needs, we will still keep KFX for the longer term..

Yeah, I too feel that the USD 2B Osprey is just too much for us, afterall the Osprey is basically just a tactical transport craft (albeit a very, very fancy one)... There's simply no strategic or deterrence value in it to justify its high cost... But I feel Jokowi might react differently for fighter jets though, he knows that we are lacking and in need now, so he may just actually agree with Prabowo and go ahead with a major purchase..
 
Well.. at this point all of this is still just offerings... although some are already in a more advanced stage of negotiations... I also hope that whatever we chose now for our short - medium term needs, we will still keep KFX for the longer term..

Yeah, I too feel that the USD 2B Osprey is just too much for us, afterall the Osprey is basically just a tactical transport craft (albeit a very, very fancy one)... There's simply no strategic or deterrence value in it to justify its high cost... But I feel Jokowi might react differently for fighter jets though, he knows that we are lacking and in need now, so he may just actually agree with Prabowo and go ahead with a major purchase..

I am suspicious with Prabowo actually, he said some thing not positive about KFX/IFX program in parliament meeting, just week before KFX/IFX renegotiation with South Korea in Jakarta in the end of September.

His deputy also said about how much Indonesia must spend on KFX/IFX program and he talks that Indonesia needs to add more money outside of the 1.8 billion USD KFX/IFX development cost, especially for the manufacturing purposes, but here Prabowo and his team are eager to spend more than 10 billion USD for imported fighter while we can actually wait until 2026 for KFX/IFX program to starts entering mass production phase inshaAllah.

His second hand man who was serving as fishery minister has also been captured by Indonesia Anti Corruption Body (KPK) for corruption case just a week ago. I would say all this plan to buy imported fighter might not be intended for national interest, but to get some "finance" for the next election.
 
I am suspicious with Prabowo actually, he said some thing not positive about KFX/IFX program in parliament meeting, just week before KFX/IFX renegotiation with South Korea in Jakarta in the end of September.

His deputy also said about how much Indonesia must spend on KFX/IFX program and he talks that Indonesia needs to add more money outside of the 1.8 billion USD KFX/IFX development cost, especially for the manufacturing purposes, but here Prabowo and his team are eager to spend more than 10 billion USD for imported fighter while we can actually wait until 2026 for KFX/IFX program to starts entering mass production phase inshaAllah.

His second hand man who was serving as fishery minister has also been captured by Indonesia Anti Corruption Body (KPK) for corruption case just a week ago. I would say all this plan to buy imported fighter might not be intended for national interest, but to get some "finance" for the next election.

Lol! quite possible, but maybe not so much in "financial" matters alone...

I think that if he can deliver a major coup with regards to fulfilling MEF requirement which has been somewhat lagging (say by getting advanced jets or submarines), he will get points he can use or show to the masses in the next election :
1. He did an outstanding job as Defense Minister - "Our military now stronger and better armed with me leading!"
2. His image as a tough ex military strongman will be bolstered - "Even the US that had previously blacklisted me is now looking to cooperate with me!"
3. He will be seen as a "can do" man that delivers results - "I am able to gain the most sophisticated weapons that were previously unthinkable for us!"

With the above in mind, it's quite understandable that projects like KFX won't appeal much to him as it won't gain him any points... It wasn't his idea, not agreed during his time in MoD, won't be ready till at least 2026, and is still of doubtful quality and success... Getting imported fighters on the other hand will be quicker (possible before 2024 for some), was initiated (and done) by him, got him international recognition, and the quality of the jets more assured...

Hell, if Prabowo actually did go through with any of the major deals, commit to KFX development, declares that he will commit more funding to R&D for military tech, aviation, rocketry and also commit to religious and cultural diversity.. I may end up voting for him in the next election... :omghaha:
 
I am glad I voted for Jokowi, instead of Prabowo. It seems true for some one who is pro KFX/IFX program and local defense industry like me, he really serves and inline with my interest.

What ever Prabowo does with his meeting with France and US, it lets to Jokowi who will approve any big ticket acquisition. We know what happen when he heard about 2 billion USD Osprey order intention right ???

I thought KFX/IFX (together with CBG subs) is SBY's programs. From what I understand the reason why we seem to be uninterested to pay for the KFX/IFX is because Jokowi's administration (with strong PDIP influence in the background) is reluctant to continue what's basically a symbol of SBY success.

Also I read somewhere that it's actually PT DI who pushes MoD to have more Airbus business as they will get something to work in return.
Well.. at this point all of this is still just offerings... although some are already in a more advanced stage of negotiations... I also hope that whatever we chose now for our short - medium term needs, we will still keep KFX for the longer term..

Yeah, I too feel that the USD 2B Osprey is just too much for us, afterall the Osprey is basically just a tactical transport craft (albeit a very, very fancy one)... There's simply no strategic or deterrence value in it to justify its high cost... But I feel Jokowi might react differently for fighter jets though, he knows that we are lacking and in need now, so he may just actually agree with Prabowo and go ahead with a major purchase..

Didn't Kasad say clearly that TNI-AD wants Osprey and Black Hawk? It seems that the relation between Jokowi and all PangTNI + KStaff is excellent now. I wouldn't be surprised that Jokowi say yes to Osprey.
 
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I thought KFX/IFX (together with CBG subs) is SBY's programs. From what I understand the reason why we seem to be uninterested to pay for the KFX/IFX is because Jokowi's administration (with strong PDIP influence in the background) is reluctant to continue what's basically a symbol of SBY success.

Also I read somewhere that it's actually PT DI who pushes MoD to have more Airbus business as they will get something to work in return.

That is right it is SBY program. Jokowi is of course not as committed as the previous administration who started the program, but Jokowi is still better than Prabowo in term of the program continuation.

Prabowo has intention to make Indonesia out of the program while Jokowi still want Indonesia inside but with some reduce cost of development. I just know it when one of parliament member say it after parliament had closed meeting with Prabowo just a week before renegotiation meeting with South Korea delegation in Jakarta.
 
That is right it is SBY program. Jokowi is of course not as committed as the previous administration who started the program, but Jokowi is still better than Prabowo in term of the program continuation.

Prabowo has intention to make Indonesia out of the program while Jokowi still want Indonesia inside but with some reduce cost of development. I just know it when one of parliament member say it after parliament had closed meeting with Prabowo just a week before renegotiation meeting with South Korea delegation in Jakarta.

Are you sure it's because of Prabowo not the other way around? Then can you explain to me why during Jokowi first term, even before prabowo is appointed as minister that the government have to sign the goddamn agreement multiple times and request to renegotiate the same agreement that the government already agreed and signed before almost every year.
in to 2015 they signed "New" agreement, despite originally it was already agreed during SBY era.
Agreement signing 2015
Then in 2016 when South Korea complain about late payment, again we rambling about unfair agreement and want "new agreement". thus in to 2016 we signed a "new" agreement.
Agreement signing 2016
But in 2018 again we wanted to renegotiate the agreement, after south korea mull over payment.
News in 2018
And here we are in 2020 with the same "lagu lama" 😵

What's more baffling is that the the current government claimed that the program has been delayed since 2009 or since SBY era but the South Korea never complained during that time. There is a gap of information and contradiction between government claim and outside news/info about this issues, unfortunately same can be said about covid news in our country but that's off topic.
 
Are you sure it's because of Prabowo not the other way around? Then can you explain to me why during Jokowi first term, even before prabowo is appointed as minister that the government have to sign the goddamn agreement multiple times and request to renegotiate the same agreement that the government already agreed and signed before almost every year.
in to 2015 they signed "New" agreement, despite originally it was already agreed during SBY era.
Agreement signing 2015
Then in 2016 when South Korea complain about late payment, again we rambling about unfair agreement and want "new agreement". thus in to 2016 we signed a "new" agreement.
Agreement signing 2016
But in 2018 again we wanted to renegotiate the agreement, after south korea mull over payment.
News in 2018
And here we are in 2020 with the same "lagu lama" 😵

What's more baffling is that the the current government claimed that the program has been delayed since 2009 or since SBY era but the South Korea never complained during that time. There is a gap of information and contradiction between government claim and outside news/info about this issues, unfortunately same can be said about covid news in our country but that's off topic.

That's somewhat true... but I think what Indos meant was that, even though Jokowi himself seems ambiguous about the whole KFX project, he didn't seem hostile to the project itself, just that he wanted more concessions from it (more local work & tech share, non-cash payment, export permission, etc) to justify the cost we have to contribute to it... Prabowo on the other hand seems hostile to the project and just wants to take us out of it, and thus his negative comments about the project...

On the other hand, our previous Def min simply seems to have no idea that the KFX project even exists..! 😅 😅
 
Are you sure it's because of Prabowo not the other way around? Then can you explain to me why during Jokowi first term, even before prabowo is appointed as minister that the government have to sign the goddamn agreement multiple times and request to renegotiate the same agreement that the government already agreed and signed before almost every year.
in to 2015 they signed "New" agreement, despite originally it was already agreed during SBY era.
Agreement signing 2015
Then in 2016 when South Korea complain about late payment, again we rambling about unfair agreement and want "new agreement". thus in to 2016 we signed a "new" agreement.
Agreement signing 2016
But in 2018 again we wanted to renegotiate the agreement, after south korea mull over payment.
News in 2018
And here we are in 2020 with the same "lagu lama" 😵

What's more baffling is that the the current government claimed that the program has been delayed since 2009 or since SBY era but the South Korea never complained during that time. There is a gap of information and contradiction between government claim and outside news/info about this issues, unfortunately same can be said about covid news in our country but that's off topic.

People do seem to have this kind of misguided impression that Prabowo is the antithesis of Jokowi only because of the 2014 and 2019 presidential election. While actually they are both coming from similar pole/ideology. Prabowo was Megawati's vice-president candidate in 2009 presidential election. It's also Prabowo who helped to promote Jokowi and Ahok in Jakarta's governor election.

What people forget is that it's SBY/Demokrat who are in the opposite side of Mega/Jokowi/PDIP. As far as I understand Prabowo also have this kind of rivalry with SBY since their military days.

So regarding this KFX/IFX problem, for me it's clear. It's SBY project. Jokowi/Mega/PDIP are totally against it. Prabowo only act as their political enforcer. The previous MoD couldn't do it probably because he couldn't do anything :D
 
Indonesia gets US nod for F-15 and F-18 fighter jet purchases
Verbal agreement was made at meeting this week, defense official says
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Two F-15 jets from the 125th Fighter Wing of the Florida Air National Guard perform a flyover on May 13, in Orlando, Florida. © AP
ERWIDA MAULIA, Nikkei staff writerDecember 9, 2020 20:52 JST
JAKARTA -- The U.S. has indicated it will sell F-15 and F-18 fighter jets to Indonesia following months of meetings between top defense officials from the two countries, according to a defense official in Jakarta.
U.S. Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller was in Jakarta on Monday and Tuesday to meet with Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto. During those meetings, Miller agreed to sell the two models of fighter jets to Indonesia, which has long wanted to upgrade from its aging F-16 fleet.
Top of Miller's agenda was the South China Sea, a water where many territorial claims overlap and where China has built military bases. His visit follows Washington's lifting in October of a two-decade entry ban on Subianto over past allegations of human rights violations, allowing him to hold high-level talks with Pentagon officials.

But warming relations between the two countries has put Beijing on edge, according to Rodon Pedrason, director-general of defense strategy at Indonesia's Defense Ministry.
"They asked, 'Why did you accept them?' To which we responded diplomatically. We don't want either China or the U.S. to feel neglected," Pedrason said in a webinar on Tuesday.
https%3A%2F%2Fs3-ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com%2Fpsh-ex-ftnikkei-3937bb4%2Fimages%2F_aliases%2Farticleimage%2F2%2F9%2F1%2F8%2F31098192-3-eng-GB%2FCropped-1607510954AP_20342561666464.jpg
Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, left, walks with acting U.S. Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller as they inspect guards during a meeting in Jakarta on Dec. 7. © AP
Miller also met with Indonesian Military Commander Hadi Tjahjanto and discussed plans to step up training between the two forces.
"The secretary emphasized the importance the [U.S] department of defense places on the bilateral partnership and in securing a free and open South China Sea and Indo-Pacific region," the U.S. embassy said in a press release.
Pedrason said there had been some concerns that U.S. policy might change under Joe Biden, who will be sworn into office as president next month, although he reckoned that Washington would not renege on signed deals.
"It is just a matter of how ready we are to provide the budget," he said. For now, no agreement has been signed.
Indonesia has been pushing the U.S. to sell it F-15, F-18 and F-35 fighter jets, but finally agreed on only two models as the third could take up to 10 years to deliver, Pedrason said. The F-15s and F-18s are manufactured by U.S. aerospace companies McDonnell Douglas and Boeing.
Major powers such as France, Britain, Germany and NATO have also approached Indonesia lately to discuss the South China Sea. Pedrason said Subianto is slated to visit Britain early next year, after having made more than 20 visits over the past year in search for good armament deals, including in France, Russia, Turkey and China.
Manila will be Miller's next stop, after which he will head to Hawaii, from where he will attend a virtual meeting of defense ministers of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and the bloc's partners.
Pedrason said the defense ministry under Subianto has a grand plan of procuring more than 100 superior fighter jets, to add to Indonesia's current fleet of less than 60. "We'll have around 170 fighter jets at the end of it. Extraordinary," Pedrason said.
He did not say when the ministry hopes to achieve that target, but added Indonesia hopes to make available between $9 billion and $11 billion for new weaponry and military equipment over the next 20 years. He said Indonesia was also planning to take soft-loan offers from countries like France, Turkey, China and Russia.
As the deal for the new fighter jets could take years to come to fruition, Indonesia is planning to buy used aircraft such as the Eurofighter Typhoon, which can be delivered much sooner. Previous reports said Subianto was interested in purchasing 15 such aircraft from Austria.
But Pedrason said the plan was only a stopgap.
"It is most urgent for us now to have weaponry that can balance [the power] against red dot countries near us," he added, citing not just the South China Sea but also Indonesia's older border disputes with neighboring Malaysia and Singapore.
Pedrason said the defense ministry is also planning to buy new models of military transport aircraft Hercules, C130J and C130H, manufactured by Lockheed Martin, as well as more submarines and patrol vessels. He added the ministry was planning to train up to 300 fighter jet pilots and around 100 pilots for Hercules over the next two years.
Additional reporting by Ismi Damayanti.

Trump (unilateral) vs Biden (multilateral).

Trump : "Give Indonesia F-15 & F-18!"
Biden : "Give them F-35!"

:D
 
Just a thought... but if we are getting Rafales would it be better if we get the naval (carrier) variant (Rafale-M) instead of the land variant (Rafale - C)...?

According to wikipedia, the M model has the following additions :
...the M model has a strengthened airframe, longer nose gear leg to provide a more nose-up attitude, larger tailhook between the engines, and a built-in boarding ladder...

So I see the benefits of the navalised version as follows :
- Strengthened airframe : This could mean a longer airframe life when used from land bases (instead of carrier), as landings on land bases are much less stressful than carrier landings.
- Longer nose gear leg for more nose-up attitude : The purpose is likely to shorten take-off distance, this feature will be helpful when operating from forward bases which likely have shorter runways compared to main bases.
- Larger tailhook : This will make capturing arresting cables easier when landing in short runways. Important to note is that TNI AU has been using the BAK-12 mobile arresting cable in airbases hosting F-16s, which could also be re-deployed to other airbases as required.
- built-in boarding ladder : definitely useful when operating from forward airbases which usually has minimal supporting facilities...

Not mentioned, but which I feel is a very significant feature for us :
- Better corrosion resistance : As a naval plane it would've been designed for maritime environment and so is much better suited for deployment to our forward island bases such as the Natunas.. which would expose the jets to more seawater air as compared to inland bases...

On the other hand...
- Consequently, the Rafale M weighs about 500 kg (1,100 lb) more than the Rafale C... : It's about half a ton heavier compared to Rafale-C, and so could mean that its performance may be slightly inferior..
- Higher cost ? : It could also mean that the unit price will be more expensive compared to Rafale-C
- Also there is no navalised version of the dual seat Rafale-B...

So would a naval version would be better for us...? rather than immediately dismissing it out of hand (due to us not having any carriers), I think it would at least deserve a brief cost performance study between the variants before making the decision...
 
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Just a thought... but if we are getting Rafales would it be better if we get the naval (carrier) variant (Rafale-M) instead of the land variant (Rafale - C)...?

According to wikipedia, the M model has the following additions :
...the M model has a strengthened airframe, longer nose gear leg to provide a more nose-up attitude, larger tailhook between the engines, and a built-in boarding ladder...

So I see the benefits of the navalised version as follows :
- Strengthened airframe : This could mean a longer airframe life when used from land bases (instead of carrier), as landings on land bases are much less stressful than carrier landings.
- Longer nose gear leg for more nose-up attitude : The purpose is likely to shorten take-off distance, this feature will be helpful when operating from forward bases which likely have shorter runways compared to main bases.
- Larger tailhook : This will make capturing arresting cables easier when landing in short runways. Important to note is that TNI AU has been using the BAK-12 mobile arresting cable in airbases hosting F-16s, which could also be re-deployed to other airbases as required.
- built-in boarding ladder : definitely useful when operating from forward airbases which usually has minimal supporting facilities...

Not mentioned, but which I feel is a very significant feature for us :
- Better corrosion resistance : As a naval plane it would've been designed for maritime environment and so is much better suited for deployment to our forward island bases such as the Natunas.. which would expose the jets to more seawater air as compared to inland bases...

On the other hand...
- Consequently, the Rafale M weighs about 500 kg (1,100 lb) more than the Rafale C... : It's about half a ton heavier compared to Rafale-C, and so could mean that its performance may be slightly inferior..
- Higher cost ? : It could also mean that the unit price will be more expensive compared to Rafale-C
- Also there is no navalised version of the dual seat Rafale-B...

So would a naval version would be better for us...? rather than immediately dismissing it out of hand (due to us not having any carriers), I think it would at least deserve a brief cost performance study between the variants before making the decision...
It make sense but , Well like u dont know how our procurement like lol
 
Just a thought... but if we are getting Rafales would it be better if we get the naval (carrier) variant (Rafale-M) instead of the land variant (Rafale - C)...?

According to wikipedia, the M model has the following additions :
...the M model has a strengthened airframe, longer nose gear leg to provide a more nose-up attitude, larger tailhook between the engines, and a built-in boarding ladder...

So I see the benefits of the navalised version as follows :
- Strengthened airframe : This could mean a longer airframe life when used from land bases (instead of carrier), as landings on land bases are much less stressful than carrier landings.
- Longer nose gear leg for more nose-up attitude : The purpose is likely to shorten take-off distance, this feature will be helpful when operating from forward bases which likely have shorter runways compared to main bases.
- Larger tailhook : This will make capturing arresting cables easier when landing in short runways. Important to note is that TNI AU has been using the BAK-12 mobile arresting cable in airbases hosting F-16s, which could also be re-deployed to other airbases as required.
- built-in boarding ladder : definitely useful when operating from forward airbases which usually has minimal supporting facilities...

Not mentioned, but which I feel is a very significant feature for us :
- Better corrosion resistance : As a naval plane it would've been designed for maritime environment and so is much better suited for deployment to our forward island bases such as the Natunas.. which would expose the jets to more seawater air as compared to inland bases...

On the other hand...
- Consequently, the Rafale M weighs about 500 kg (1,100 lb) more than the Rafale C... : It's about half a ton heavier compared to Rafale-C, and so could mean that its performance may be slightly inferior..
- Higher cost ? : It could also mean that the unit price will be more expensive compared to Rafale-C
- Also there is no navalised version of the dual seat Rafale-B...

So would a naval version would be better for us...? rather than immediately dismissing it out of hand (due to us not having any carriers), I think it would at least deserve a brief cost performance study between the variants before making the decision...

In terms of technical aspect I tend to agree. The problem would be, just like you pointed out, the price. It means we want to buy the more expensive variant of the already expensive fighter.:D

Personally, I think Prabowo has F-15 locked on in his mind. F-15 will give him much more popularity for 2024 presidential election than Rafale.

Most Indonesian people don't know what Rafale is, never mind the technical comparison between fighters. On the other hand, they know that F-15 is "pesawat hebat" or at least heard positive vibes about it since it's been around for decades.

Just compare these headlines from Indonesian press about Rafale and F-15.

mediarafalef15.jpg


Which one is more bombastic? :)
Hilariously, one of them even put the name "Rafale" as trivia:omghaha:

The problem for Prabowo I think only if he wants to buy F-15 only or F-15 AND Rafale. Let's wait and see.
 
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[Selasa, 03 November 2020]

•Depo Pemeliharaan 60 melaksanakan uji terima Senjata IWI Tavor X95 kaliber 5,56 yang dapat dikonversi menjadi 9 mm•

Uji terima ini dihadiri oleh Tim Penilai yang diketuai oleh Kasubdis Senmu, Kolonel Tek Waras Didik S, beserta tim uji dari Mabesau, yaitu dari Disaero, Dismat, Slogau, Dislitbangau, Sopsau, Koharmatau, Lambangjaau, Disadaau, dan Paskhas.

Senjata ini nantinya akan digunakan oleh Korp Pasukan Khas (Korpaskhas)

IWI Tavor X95 kaliber 5,56
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soft news but this weapon is real new procurement :sniper:
 
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