Indonesia Defence Forum

[Azull]

The Black on DPM is slowly growing on me not gonna lie.

Haha its quite a contrast with their uniform tho.

 

[toke115]

 

[Gundala]

don't you think we should have missile system that can detect 5th gen jets

Ok let me share an idea about this "stealth" from the 5th gen fighter. Lets look at the older stealth version of F117. F117 Smallest RCS comes from the front, with the help from the paint it might "confuse" the radar or can be seen as a flicker in the radar screen backthen. Additionaly it has the reduce heat signature from exhaust. Those radar she trying to confuse might be in a better chance to spot her from the sides or back. Now when doing a mission the fly path must be adusted to where the radar/air def is so it can be stealthy. Means dont get expose to her side nor back, to do this you need to know where the SAM/radar site is and thier coverage range. Not an easy task eh?

Now the coming of F-35 add additional lower RCS (I believe the side and back RCS of F-35 is still bigger then the frront same as F117) more manuverability and the EW suites that can help them be more stealthy. But doesnt mean it cant be spotted, tho spotting and being able to lock and fire a missile is completely 2 different things. The lower the RCS the shorter range any SAM could be able to lock and shoot. But this doesnt change the fact that they still need to know where the SAM/Radar are and the range to be able to do their job. Its not like they just bardge in and air def system wont be able to track them at all. You might be able to know where the air def is but you still need to find out the range specially and the type of radar they are using. This is how the Israely map their air def target and intentionally show their F-35 to the radar to check where it is and the range of it whilte gathering other info.

https://internasional.kompas.com/re...5-israel-dilaporkan-tertangkap-radar?page=all

Its like where you see the fighter/bomber/mpa in the news that said "Russia intercept US Spy Plane" or England intercept Russia bomber etc. While they might have the additional information on the response time for the "intruder" but they also might be a mapping on target radar range.

Not much info on F-35 but for sure this "turkey" has some SIGINT and C4SIR capability which is why Cornie Bakrie said its the day one plane. To compare it with 4.5 Fighter there are news about how Rafale cant be deteced when doing bombing mission and how saab gripen cant be detected and somehow came out from the rear of her training adversary. They both relly more on thier EW suits to do that. Now add that to lower RCS/Steath paint and radar absorbance composite materials/heat signature reducement and kick *** EW suites.....Those two (rafale/grippen) cant come even closer to F-35 in terms of being hard to detect.

So in terms of whether we harbour S-400, SAMP/T, Patriot the result wont be much different for us because in order to detect "stealth" you need ENOUGH SAM/Radar sites and IADS to do so (assuming she is in stealth mode). So the priority is not about which one, but to have enough and integrate them into good IADS system for us to have a better chance to spot her. Ok I stop here, I typed too much already....

 

[Chestnut]

View attachment 662643 View attachment 662644

The funniest part about these photos is the fact they are wearing NOD's yet are carrying rifles with no IR emitters, thus not allowing them to aim their rifles under NOD's.

Nice Try AD.

 

[toke115]

The funniest part about this photos is the fact they are wearing NOD's yet are carrying rifles with no IR emitters, thus not allowing them to aim their rifles under NOD's.

Nice Try AD.

Lol, mereka mungkin cuman mau pamer "kita uda pake THALES O-NYX NVG" he..he..he...

 

[Nike]

 

[Nike]

 

[Nike]

Seems FOV of artillery branch is being ready, 51 units of them

 

[NEKONEKO]

They should also use drone, way safer for observation.

 

[Cromwell]

Credit to Lembaga Keris
Webinar June 5th, 2020

 

[Raduga]

Credit to Lembaga Keris
Webinar June 5th, 2020
View attachment 662745 View attachment 662746 View attachment 662747 View attachment 662748

i started to thinking that AL really thought the PKR as destroyer , perusak kawal rudal = guided missile "destroyer escort" or can be classified as light frigate , why do they need to use such ww2 classification........

 

[nametag]

PKR Latih Dapatkan Alokasi Anggaran

20 Agustus 2020

1 Kapal PKR Latih dibutuhkan TNI AL saat ini (photo : Damen)

Kementerian Pertahanan telah mengalokasikan anggaran sebesar USD 402 juta (Rp 5,5 triliun) untuk program PKR Latih, alokasi anggaran ini untuk dibelanjakan pada kurun 2020-2024, sumber terpercaya telah membenarkan kabar ini.


(Defense Studies)

USD 402 million for only 1 PKR training? isn't it very expensive? AFAIK the combat PKR cost only USD 220 million for 1 unit. why so much?

 

[¿Por qué?]

Ok let me share an idea about this "stealth" from the 5th gen fighter. Lets look at the older stealth version of F117. F117 Smallest RCS comes from the front, with the help from the paint it might "confuse" the radar or can be seen as a flicker in the radar screen backthen. Additionaly it has the reduce heat signature from exhaust. Those radar she trying to confuse might be in a better chance to spot her from the sides or back. Now when doing a mission the fly path must be adusted to where the radar/air def is so it can be stealthy. Means dont get expose to her side nor back, to do this you need to know where the SAM/radar site is and thier coverage range. Not an easy task eh?

Now the coming of F-35 add additional lower RCS (I believe the side and back RCS of F-35 is still bigger then the frront same as F117) more manuverability and the EW suites that can help them be more stealthy. But doesnt mean it cant be spotted, tho spotting and being able to lock and fire a missile is completely 2 different things. The lower the RCS the shorter range any SAM could be able to lock and shoot. But this doesnt change the fact that they still need to know where the SAM/Radar are and the range to be able to do their job. Its not like they just bardge in and air def system wont be able to track them at all. You might be able to know where the air def is but you still need to find out the range specially and the type of radar they are using. This is how the Israely map their air def target and intentionally show their F-35 to the radar to check where it is and the range of it whilte gathering other info.

https://internasional.kompas.com/re...5-israel-dilaporkan-tertangkap-radar?page=all

Its like where you see the fighter/bomber/mpa in the news that said "Russia intercept US Spy Plane" or England intercept Russia bomber etc. While they might have the additional information on the response time for the "intruder" but they also might be a mapping on target radar range.

Not much info on F-35 but for sure this "turkey" has some SIGINT and C4SIR capability which is why Cornie Bakrie said its the day one plane. To compare it with 4.5 Fighter there are news about how Rafale cant be deteced when doing bombing mission and how saab gripen cant be detected and somehow came out from the rear of her training adversary. They both relly more on thier EW suits to do that. Now add that to lower RCS/Steath paint and radar absorbance composite materials/heat signature reducement and kick *** EW suites.....Those two (rafale/grippen) cant come even closer to F-35 in terms of being hard to detect.

So in terms of whether we harbour S-400, SAMP/T, Patriot the result wont be much different for us because in order to detect "stealth" you need ENOUGH SAM/Radar sites and IADS to do so (assuming she is in stealth mode). So the priority is not about which one, but to have enough and integrate them into good IADS system for us to have a better chance to spot her. Ok I stop here, I typed too much already....

I like this argument a lot. Much better than the other ones. Thanks for taking time to write this .

Anyway, so we can safely say that one of the key elements in detecting 5th gen fighter is to use passive radar. It doesn't transmit anything so it can't be located, and it doesn't need any emissions from the 5th gen fighters to locate them.

I'm not sure how advanced is this but it looks like the Germans have this. The radar evaluates the signals from the civilian transmitters (radio/TV/cellphones/etc) when reflected by the target. I suppose it's still in the very early stage but they claimed that the radar could detect F-35 up to 93 miles (150km) during airshow.

The fact that the test was conducted during airshow tells us that as long as we know where the 5th gen fighter takes off (the initial position) the radar can track it. This describes what we exactly need to detect all the F-35s in Singapore. We probably could even monitor them 24x7.

The problem still persist in detecting all of those F-35s in Australia though. Apart from distance, the lack of civilian transmitters around our border could prove vital.

Again, this thing is still very much in the very early stage. Still so many weaknesses to overcome. But this stealth vs counter stealth development hopefully give us cheaper alternatives in the future.

 

[NEKONEKO]

it doesn't need any emissions from the 5th gen fighters to locate them.

How?
Radio emission from aircraft is used to triangulate its position.

 

[NEKONEKO]

The radar evaluates the signals from the civilian transmitters (radio/TV/cellphones/etc) when reflected by the target.

But bro its stealth aircraft with low RCS, with combination of sleek design and special material, resulting radio signal reflected by it is weak and bounce to other direction.